Tracking options for BT-20

bad_idea

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We were starting to take the Aerotech Open Thread off-topic, so I thought I'd start a thread to continue the conversation.

Here are the quotes that started the discussion:
Can't fit a GPS receiver in BT-20, not going to get HAM licensed just for that.

Eggfinder Minis are slightly over 18mm. Earlier revisions at least could be shaved slightly to fit an 18mm tube that had been sanded a bit. The current revision board I measured just now was 18.5mm, and it looks like it might have more stuff bordering the edges. Even so, a BT20 bay could be made for it, for instance 3D printing a capsule that's paper thin over the edges of the board. Or you could use BT-20+ tubing for a tracker bay and fair it into BT-20 components on either side.

do you really need GPS tracking? how about a plain old beacon, and hone your "DF fox hunt" skills. don't need a ham license for that, although I certainly encourage you to pursue that, in the spirit of more knowledge.

recently someone posted a website with some falcon trackers that would fit in an 18mm. I know there are others...

you can pretty easily fit an eggfinder mini in an 18mm mount, i found a nice battery that fits in 18mm tubes. (it just takes alot of length to get the tracker to fit)

@Seatechnerd83 , I'm interested in what battery you used.
 

SolarYellow

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One good thing, there are a lot of Orion sounding rocket payloads that make it veeerrrrrry long and skinny. So you can make a reasonably scale-looking rocket as long as it needs to be to stack everything in line.

I also like the Black Brant VB and VC. These rockets in their typical and well-documented configurations are long, but not too long. The Peter Alway drawings show a 4:1 ogive nose cone, which means the standard "pointy" Estes cone used in Wizard, Viking, etc. is close enough to right.

There is an EF Mini antenna thread where it is discussed changing from the standard antenna to just a length of brass wire. Off the top of my head, that could take ~6 grams off the assembly, as well as allowing it to fit in a skinnier nose cone (or protrude like an antenna).

Also found this page: http://rocketlocator.com/hardware/?i=1

I don't know what all that means, but Google does and I can find out later.

I did spend a little time looking up UART GPS modules on AliExpress. They are cheap and plentiful, thanks to drones.

I like the EF Mini for its integration and the service provided by Cris. But it might be possible to push it farther with a non-OTS solution.
 
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Charles_McG

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Rocketjunkie

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LL Electronics XLF-6 uses size 192 watch batteries and will run well over a week on a set of fresh batteries. I use 217 MHz in the GSM band and doesn't require a license. Fits a BT-5
 

mh9162013

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This is something I've given a lot of thought to, as I've been trying to create a rocket design to get a BT-20 rocket as high as possible. From my thought experiments, getting max altitude is the easy part; the hard part is trying to figure out how to get the rocket back.

GPS is an obvious option, but it's expensive. Oh, and it adds weight. If you're gunning for altitude, every gram counts.

A small electronic buzzer device and using a directional mic seems like a good option too, as has already been suggested by @Charles_McG. I see the biggest problem being that you have to be within a few hundred feet to find it if it's lost. And if it's lost, you may have ZERO idea as to where it could be.

My thought is to add a very bright blinkie LED and launch at night at a location with little light pollution and a moonless night. I imagine this hypothetical device would be as light, if not lighter than the buzzer, and a hechuva lot cheaper than a GPS unit. It would also have the potential to have a further "spotting range" than the buzzer.

Lastly, I think there's the the possibility of hiring extra sets of eyes. Not sure how this might work, but maybe everyone gets $1 for watching your launch and trying to track your rocket. If you lose track of your rocket and have to rely on someone else, they get $5 if they see it and can show you were it is. And if the rocket is temporarily lost, a $20 reward to the first person to find it. I really think having an extra few sets of eyes during your launch can be a way of dramatically improving your ability to track the rocket without adding any weight to the rocket itself, and for relatively nominal cost. It might even help to coordinate the visual tracking, with 2 people assigned to a given sector of the sky (one pereson has binoculars* and one person eyes their naked eyes). Yes, it requires the coordination of others, but again, it's relatively cheap and adds no weight to your rocket.


* If using binoculars, I'm sure there's a sweetspot for magnification, but a wide enough view of the sky to be useful. Also, it might be a good idea for at least one person in the pair to have a good quality compass, with a bezel of at least 2 degrees of resolution. This can be VERY helpful if only 1 person was able to track the rocket until it hit the ground and they can reference a specific tree or landmark. Then they shoot a bearing with their compass and you'll have a a specific line of where the rocket is located; you just need to figure out how far away the rocket it. If you have 2 other compass users that also saw where the rocket fell, you can triangulate the position of the rocket. But if that many people saw where the rocket fell, it probably won't be too difficult to find it the old fashion way (assuming the landing spot is accessible on foot).
 
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waltr

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I have small RF beacons I build but even they are too big for BT20.

For recovery a Silver Mylar streamer and sun light on a dark blue sky is pretty easy to see as it flashes.
And multiple eyes also help quite a bit.

Good luck and fun fun with this.
 

Neutronium95

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LL Electronics XLF-6 uses size 192 watch batteries and will run well over a week on a set of fresh batteries. I use 217 MHz in the GSM band and doesn't require a license. Fits a BT-5
I'll second the LL Electronics trackers. Absolutely tiny and good power for when you decide to pop the main parachute at 17,000 feet...
 

c0c0m0ke

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In the May/June edition of Sport Rocketry, they feature an article on building a "Chute Release Adapter" for 29mm rockets that are too small for a "Chute Release device" They put it in a BT-60 tube (38mm). I have a 29mm rocket. So I made the CRA for it. The last time I flew this particular rocket, there was no place to put the RF tracker in it, so I taped it to the side. I did not do a good job, or the tape wasn't "up" for the mission. As I chased my rocket to its resting place, I was listening to the beeper of the reciever, and as I raced west with the rocket, the reciever was telling me the tracker was east of me. Ten paces later it was beside me but i couldn't see the tracker in the 4 foot tall grass. And I looked up and around, and the rocket was nowhere to be seen. I found the tracker, a few hours later with the help of a rake I brought back from home to help out. That was July 2022. I looked for that rocket and it did not turn up until two months ago.
I was chasing a spool I had launched that came down, it appeared to me and everyone else, in a small forest. I was pointed where to go, behind a certain tree on the edge. I walked to the tree and the foliage was dense behind it. And it was also swampy. I paint my rockets in bright colors. Peering as best I could, I became convinced the spool might be on the far side of the dense line of trees. It would be easier, and less messy to walk around it. As I extricated my self from the dense jungle, I saw a red fin can waving at me from eye level, it was caught in a tree. Something about the fin can was familiar. When I saw the braided kevlar shock cord, and the funky fin fillets, I realized it was the lost rocket I launched in July 2022! Only the bottom foot of the rocket could be found.

Now it is rebuilt. And now it has a "Chute Release Adapter." Why not also make a RF tracker adapter? My RF tracker has 12" antenna that dangles outside the rocket. A 1/8" hole thru the tube is ample for the antenna to pass. A basswood disk is all it needs to rest on. 3" or 4" is more than enough to accommodate the tracker and the nose cone shoulder and coupler. I don't think it needs a cushion of foam.

So now I have an RF Carrier. Actually I have 2, one for 29mm rockets, and another for 38mm rockets. I could make them for my 18mm and 24 mm rockets. And I learned something from building the CRA: the launch lug can go down the side of the CRA and be the only launch guide it needs. However, the LL on CRA does line up with the launch lug on the fin of my 29mm rocket, that I call Red Start, after a small warbler I used to see in my back yard.

I found two cheap digital cameras (at Amazon) that are more than an inch cube. They fit into a BT-55 which is slightly bigger than a 29mm mmt, but I am calling the BT-55 a 29mm, when it is not. Close, but not quite the same. Anyway, now I made camera carriers, much like the RF Carrier, for both the BT-55 and the BT-60 (38mm). The couplers are about 3" and the tubes are about 4". The cameras sit atop the coupler on a basswood disk. To keep the camera from moving around, I glued small balsa walls on the sides and back of the camera. I thought I would paint the interior and the "furniture" flat black. T drilled a 1/2" hole for the lens to peek out.The video won't be looking down but out the side. I need to clean up the holes as there are some "flaps" I missed.
 

cerving

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Sadly, they use the 70cm Ham band, and since they (probably) can't send out a callsign you can't use them in the US even if you're a Ham.
 

Art Upton

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Frankly most CBers in the 70s knew more about SWR and Watt meters and Antennas with 5 watt CB radios then Tech Class hams do today as they didn't have to deal with that back then... But good for them , now we get more tech class hams into our ranks and many are also Rocketeers :D
 

bad_idea

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The Tech Ham License today is so easy even a 1970's CBer could pass it. All the questions and answers are posted on line and have practice tests till you can pass. Most only take about 2 weeks of doing practice tests to pass...
Good to know. I need to get that done.
 

Art Upton

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Thank you, Art. I'll do that. I like that it provides some good explanations alongside the Q&A. Looks like a very good guide.

There are only 35 questions on the test , out of all that is in the book; that the practice tests let you practice on.

Some have said you can fail all the math questions that pop up in the random 35 question tests and still pass.

Some have said you can fail all this or that and still pass. The sections that book is divided into is the parts that will have one or two questions like them on the test. The point is you don't have to master them all and unlike in the 70 or early 80s if you fail you can retest again right way; just like an L1 Cert.
 

Art Upton

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Art points to some great self study references. If you prefer some extra study help you might find the http://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/index.html pay site to be useful. I did and used it do my extra exam. YMMV.

Folks that needed a tech license to use one of the products I sold in the past would do the QRZ practice test 2-4 times a week for 2 to 3 weeks and pass. It is not the law but I would only sell that to folks with a valid license.
 
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