I never said anything about “Cheap junk” I was only giving my opinion on some of their kits; that being that they are to fragile for real world use.
If the materials used in TLP kits can’t even survive being SHIPPED to you; how can one expect them to survive actual launchings and recoveries?
And where did I mention HPR? Did I say composite tubing or fiberglass? Or Plywood fins or G10?
And why the assumption that I intend to shove the largest motor possible into them? Build it as a 29mm capable and you have the option of using E and F 24mm composite motors and you don’t have to bother with clustering BP motors. Not to mention a single AP F reload is cheaper than 2 BP Es or Fs.
As for the price increasing; TLP could offer stouter tubes, motor mounts and Bass wood fin materiel with only a nominal increase in price. For instance buying the materials from Balsa machining service, and thus paying wholesale, I upgraded my “Perseus II” kit for only a bit over $11.00, hardly THREE TIMES AS MUCH. If those same parts had been purchased retail then the cost would have been less.
Now as far as the TLP kits based on BT-60 tubes; those I have no problem with building as is. IMO long Estes type BT-80 tubes are too prone to damage from even the most benign treatment to be included in my fleet.
I guess you're experience is markedly different from mine... BT-80 is one of my favorite size tubes for making rockets-- big without being "too big" and requiring larger motors than strictly necessary. Thicker wall tubes means heavier tubes, heavier rockets, needing bigger, higher thrust motors, meaning heavier motor mounts, centering rings, etc, meaning heavier motors bringing the CG aft, requiring noseweight, thus increasing motor size requirements or reducing performance for a given size motor, etc... it's a vicious circle...
I haven't had any problems with the BT-80 rockets I've flown being damaged... maybe I'm lucky or you're unlucky, or both...
Sorry if I was "projecting" on you-- I've seen a LOT of attitude given by people who buy a TLP kit who seem to read "Mid-Power" as "surviving near-mach flights out of sight on huge high thrust motors" and then are disappointed when they open the kit to find something more akin to an Estes kit than an Aerotech kit, LOC kit, Madcow kit, etc... these are NOT HPR kits and folks need to be aware of that... but then again, they're not PRICED like a HPR kit EITHER... You didn't directly specify G-10, fiberglass, etc, but when you say "beef up" the kit with thick wall tubes, etc. the correlation is there... maybe not all out, but it's there... Sorry if it seems I "jumped on you" about it, but I've read folks making comments like "TLP kits are junk because the parts are sorry" and stuff like that. I've not had a problem with the tubes-- that can be from ANY shipping problems, not just TLP or that particular size tube... I know folks were knocking the "extremely soft balsa" and I replaced the balsa on my TLP kit because I didn't think it was tough enough for the rocket... saved it for another project... (glider balsa perhaps as it's very lightweight). So maybe I took your complaints further than you intended them to go... If so I apologize...
I will agree that a single larger motor makes a LOT more sense than a pair of BP D's or E's... those BP D and E motors are getting pretty darn expensive... burning them two at a time in clusters gets pretty expensive pretty fast... Better with a pair of C's but not that much better... And if one goes with a reload composite, which IIRC a pair of D12's should be about the same performance as a single E24 (impulse wise-- how it's delivered and the weight difference also come into play, and also whatever is "closest" to an E24 would be a good substitute for a pair of D12's, and would certainly be cheaper). IMHO I've been staying away from the D cluster TLP kits due to the per-flight cost of motors... a single composite motor with similar performance WOULD be cheaper-- plus the weight savings from the simpler motor mount (single tube versus double tube), lighter motor casing (single casing versus two casings) and easier prep and ignition, would make a single larger motor preferable...
MY main gripe with TLP is that it WOULD be nice to be able to get the nosecone shape without having to graft on a paper cone to the top of the Super Big Bertha nosecone... but then again, that would raise prices, as it would require special cones be manufactured-- either special molds and a blow-molder making the cones in bulk (requiring a huge and expensive order from the supplier), resin casting of the cones, or making them from balsa, all of which is basically cost-prohibitive... Maybe at some point Estes will release a BT-80 version of a Harpoon or something with the correct shape nose made from a blow-molded plastic nosecone, and then we'll have another BT-80 plastic cone to choose from besides the PNC-80K and PNC-80BB... We can hope anyway... it'd be nice to have a drop-in replacement...
Not a big deal, but one of those 'Nice to haves'...
Later! OL JR
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