TLP Gabriel III/AS Fins And Build Thread

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So, I'm finally Vinyling and whatnot. Man! This is a lot of painstaking Work!
I'm about 50% done, but am taking a Break to eat some Ramen Noodles.:)
 
Made it this far.



I'll need to use Testors Paints to touch up the small spots where things don't match up exactly right, but I'm done for tonight.
 
Thanks Guys.
Hopefully I'll be able to do a Launch around the first week of next Month. Don't have any Motors yet.
I need to finish up my Simulations in Openrocket and make up my Mind on what the Motor will be for its first Flight.:)
 
Looks good! :)

There are only a handful of Aerotech single use motors available to you that will safely lift this beast. F50 Blue Thunder, G40 & G80 White lightning motors and the G77 Redline. The G78 Mojave Green just doesn't have enough *umph* to safely lift it. They are all about the same price. Personally I'd go for the F50 or G40 for the first flight.

Remember, we like pictures and or video!


Jerome :)
 
JeromeK99 said:
Looks good! :)

There are only a handful of Aerotech single use motors available to you that will safely lift this beast. F50 Blue Thunder, G40 & G80 White lightning motors and the G77 Redline. The G78 Mojave Green just doesn't have enough *umph* to safely lift it. They are all about the same price. Personally I'd go for the F50 or G40 for the first flight.

Remember, we like pictures and or video!


Jerome :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, I was just looking over some of the Thrust Curve Charts I'de printed from the NAR Site and was thinking I would be leaning toward the G40, as I have experience with it in a Scratch Built I put together back in 2000, as well as successful Flights with it in my G-Force.
Sadly, both of those eventually ended up in Trees due to poor choice of Launch Locations.
 
Thanks Jeff.
I just spent another Hour with the Testors Paint and the Fine Brush filling in the little Gaps.
Also, I fixed the Point where the Vinyl terminates on the Leading and Trailing Edges of the Front Fins, the Black Lines. Mark must have foresaw this shortcoming in the Decal Scheme because he included a separate piece of Black Vinyl marked "Scrap". I was able to make little Strips that joined each side, then I hit them really quicky with a Lighter to shrink them. This way there is no Gap for the Wind to get into to peel them off.
 
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Funny thing is, I still can't find a single Photo of a Gabriel III.
I have to conclude that although a Drawing of this Anti-Ship Missile exists in one of my Books, it does infact not actually exist, similar to TLPs Alarm Kit that I built last Year. Other Versions of it are real, but TLP has taken liberty in producing their "Version" based on the same tiny amount of info as I was able to find. Why they did not choose to produce a Gabriel I, II, IV or V, we will never know. All we can assume with near certainty, is that the Gabriel III does not actually exist. It must have been a Propaganda Ploy at one time, and thus the Illustrations were drawn.
 
TopRamen said:
Funny thing is, I still can't find a single Photo of a Gabriel III.
I have to conclude that although a Drawing of this Anti-Ship Missile exists in one of my Books, it does infact not actually exist, similar to TLPs Alarm Kit that I built last Year. Other Versions of it are real, but TLP has taken liberty in producing their "Version" based on the same tiny amount of info as I was able to find. Why they did not choose to produce a Gabriel I, II, IV or V, we will never know. All we can assume with near certainty, is that the Gabriel III does not actually exist. It must have been a Propaganda Ploy at one time, and thus the Illustrations were drawn.
Click to expand...

Found one for you... it is the air launched version.

gabriel mk3.jpg
Gabriel Mk 3


My guess as to "why" would be that the Mk 1 is a bit too unstable to model as a rocket. The actual missile had control and guidance systems. Missiles tend to be "unstable" by nature to be more maneuverable. I wanted to clone the old Centuri Gabriel missile, but discovered a big difference in how it looked compared to the photos I've seen. Sim'ed it out and could not get it to acceptable stability without putting the forward fins too far back.

Jerome :)
 
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JeromeK99 said:
Found one for you... it is the air launched version.

View attachment 172243
Gabriel Mk 3


My guess as to "why" would be that the Mk 1 is a bit too unstable to model as a rocket. The actual missile had control and guidance systems. Missiles tend to be "unstable" by nature to be more maneuverable. I wanted to clone the old Centuri Gabriel missile, but discovered a big difference in how it looked compared to the photos I've seen. Sim'ed it out and could not get it to acceptable stability without putting the forward fins too far back.

Jerome :)
Click to expand...



You Rock!!!
I knew that if I claimed it did not even exist, that someone would be along swiftly to prove me wrong. It was the only way I was ever going to see a Picture of one.
Thank you for this.
I was trying to justify my desire to build another one of these, as the build was extremely enjoyable and I really like the design of the Fins and the overall "Look" of the thing.
The Markings on the one in your Picture are interesting.
 
Me and Daddyisabar been saying for quite some time now, TLP kits are a canvas. Unusual canvas' that you might not find everywhere. You can spend no time on them, build them exactly as specified, and they fly (they WILL if you FOLLOW the instructions). Or you spend a little time jazzing them up, which probably describes me, or have a ball like you have. But in general when people complain that the $30 kit comes with no decals, which is true they show them on the rocket, they don't know at the time that by the time they build it to their liking they'll have gotten their 30 bucks worth (assuming you like building).

JMO
 
So true. I had to go pull out my Gabriel and all the old memories came flooding back. Built stock with the slate blue paint and Pactra stripping tape. Then came the neato 3rd party Excelsior decals later on. Many repairs on the surface mount boat tail fins. I see a cardstock patch and black electrical tape over the CA field repairs. There is black electrical tape over the hole in the paper fin where the witches hat hit it. Witches hat is still there with some dings. The antenna still looks new. Then there is flight number seven on a old AT SU E15-7 I got from an estate. Some bonus delay resulted in my first thin tube TLP zipper with an underwear elastic shock cord. All epoxied up and left unpainted - it just adds to the patina and mystique of the rocket. . . OK, I am too lazy to fix it right. In my notes I see much bitching about the recessed motor mount and having to hook up copperheads. Just flew the Rapier (12th flight) and Hawk (10th flight) on F 24's this weekend and had a good time. Folks thought I used a much bigger motor in the Rapier but I had to admit I just built it stock. Time to put an F24 or E 28 in the old Gabriel and see if the repairs will hold as it rips off the pad for flight number eleven.

This weekend there was a guy at the club with an "up built" Gabriel. All white with red checkerboards, looked real good on the pad. Used an E 15 -7 - I wish I could have stopped him before the button was pushed! It wasn't a pretty sight or sound as it came in ballistic and then you heard the thud, another one bites the dust. Such is the cruel world of the TLP upbuild. Like Patton would say; when you stick your hands into the flaming pile of goo that used to be your best TLP rocket, you will know what to do. It was stable going up but the delay and the coming down part was not so good. The Gabriel likes to come down fast with lots of resistance holding that nose cone in. Bringing back the remains no one said "oh that will just buff right out" as the innards of the entire rocket were showing and it seemed only half as tall as it once was. Maybe he will chime in as he has done several TLP upbuilds/mods and has really scared me only once.

Don't let the TLP horror stories scare you off! There are many other great TLP stories out there and I'm sure yours will be one!:grin:
 
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Thanks Marwady.

Not one to leave well enough alone, I used my Aluminum Foil Tape on the Retainer Ring.



 
Thanks Z!:)
To apply the Foil Tape, I first cut the Strip to the right length and size. I left about 1mm of "Overhang" on the upper side of it to fold over onto the Top of the Retainer Ring.
As I went around the Ring with the Tape, I used a Q-tip to press it into the contours/ridges. When it was all the way around, I folded the excess millimeter down onto the top of the Ring and pressed it on against the Workbench. Then I set it on its Top on some 220 Sandpaper and worked it around in a circular motion til' the excess was sanded away.

 
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gdjsky01 said:
Me and Daddyisabar been saying for quite some time now, TLP kits are a canvas. Unusual canvas' that you might not find everywhere. You can spend no time on them, build them exactly as specified, and they fly (they WILL if you FOLLOW the instructions). Or you spend a little time jazzing them up, which probably describes me, or have a ball like you have. But in general when people complain that the $30 kit comes with no decals, which is true they show them on the rocket, they don't know at the time that by the time they build it to their liking they'll have gotten their 30 bucks worth (assuming you like building).

JMO
Click to expand...



Definitely! Well said. I'm already trying to make up my Mind as to which one to get next. This Rocket has taken me Months to complete, so I've gotten much more than my Moneys Worth out of it and then some. Got to learn some new Techniques and develop some new ones along the way.
I'm thinking after a few more TLP Kits I should be able to build a pretty decent version.
I really liked seeing Marwadys Thread about the TLP Kits that he made over the Winter, and his Indigo Short-Range Anti-Aircraft Missile came out really nice, so I'm thinking about getting one of those. Already begun the Research into the Real Life Version, and can't find a single Picture of a real one, so it should be right up my Alley, seeing as how the other 2 TLP Kits I've built so far were that way for me too.

Found one Pic' in my Book,"The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Worlds Rockets and Missiles"
That one is bright Orange.
 
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Just ordered the Indigo. I'm going to change it's name to Cobalt, and the only Pieces I'm going to use from the TLP Kit is the Nose Cone and the Paper Hat Template, one of them will be absent in the final Product.
 
TopRamen said:
Just ordered the Indigo. I'm going to change it's name to Cobalt, and the only Pieces I'm going to use from the TLP Kit is the Nose Cone and the Paper Hat Template, one of them will be absent in the final Product.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. Make sure you post a link to the new thread here so we get notified!
:pop:
 
gdjsky01 said:
Sounds good. Make sure you post a link to the new thread here so we get notified!
:pop:
Click to expand...

Will do. I'm going to enjoy this one, as I'm finally getting the hang of some of these new Techniques. TLP Kits are the best!
 
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Today I removed the Nose Cone and Recovery Gear from this Model, as in hindsight and after learning to use Openrocket I have realized that I can make a lighter Nose Cone and fly it on a 29 to 24mm Adapter with Composites from E20 up.:)
Now I just need to scrounge up $15 to cover the cost of a new PNC-80BB to work on.
The 6 oz. Cone will be fine for G40 and G80, but I don't have anywhere big enough to fly those in this bird yet.
I can get the CG right with a 3oz. Cone and 1.5oz. of Recovery Gear, and given my experience flying my 17oz. Martel on an E20 recently, I can launch this in my local Park safely.:)
 
TopRamen said:
... I have realized that I can make a lighter Nose Cone and fly it on a 29 to 24mm Adapter with Composites from E20 up.:)
..
Click to expand...

Hold on there Mister ! You're making a modification to use LESS NOSE WEIGHT !?!!?! In the words of Chief O'Hara: "Saints preserve us!" :wink:

(Seriously, nice job building for the field using new knowledge.)
 

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