Titan III E launch with Saturn V in fore ground

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mjennings

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A former coworker e-mailed me this today and I thought many here would get a kick out of this photo too. He guesses it is from 1972.

Copy of Sat V with Titan III E.jpg
 
Sorry, but there's no way that's a Titan IIIE. The first IIIEs weren't launched until 1974, after the end of the Apollo missions.

I'll have the identities for you soon, though. :D
 
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That Saturn V was the qualification vehicle, to check out launch facilities etc.
I think that was the first Titan III launched.
IIRC about 1967???
Mark T
 
There are ullage motors visible just above the first interstage joint, so it's definitely Apollo 14 or before.

If this is a Titan IIIC, as looks likely, then:

The first Saturn V flight was in 1967, but there are no IIIC launches within 2 months before a Saturn V launch in 1967 and 68.

A IIIC, #3C-15 launched 2/9/69, followed by Apollo 9 on 4/4. Plausible, but a wide separation.

The most likely: a Titan IIIC launched on 4/8/70, three days before Apollo 13. The picture is then looking south to southeast across launch complex 39A with Apollo 13 loaded, across LC41 (with scaffolding), to LC40, with Titan IIIC launching. The launch was at 10:50 am.

The side of the Saturn facing the camera is in shadow, consistent with a late morning launch with the sun in the SSE near the zenith.

Case closed. :cheers:
 
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EGE-
You're good!:D

mjennings-
I think my computer just found it's new walpaper:cool:

Evil Ed
 
The most likely: a Titan IIIC launched on 4/8/70, three days before Apollo 13. The picture is then looking south to southeast across launch complex 39A with Apollo 13 loaded, across LC41 (with scaffolding), to LC40, with Titan IIIC launching. The launch was at 10:50 am.

The side of the Saturn facing the camera is in shadow, consistent with a late morning launch with the sun in the SSE near the zenith.

Case closed. :cheers:

Except that the paint scheme doesn't match Apollo 13.

apollo13.jpg



Looks more like the Saturn 500F from 1966 to me.

KSC-66C-5246.jpg
 
SecretSquirrel:

I did not even consider that this was a non-flying Saturn V. However, I don't think that it's possible for this to be the 500F.

The 500F was rolled out on 17 June 1966; that eliminates the 16 June Titan IIIC launch.

Note the scaffolded launch Complex 41 clearly between the launching Titan and the nearer Saturn. That eliminates the 26 August launch, which was from LC41.

As far as I can find, the 500F was destacked in October 1966, before the November 3 Titan IIIC launch from LC40.

I don't know how to explain the paint scheme. Either this is the 500F and it was destacked later than I found, or it's Apollo 13. Anyone with a bit more knowledge than I got any ideas?
 
AS-500-F rolled out to 39A on May 25, 1966 and remained there until June 8, 1966 when it was hastily more back to the VAB for protection from a hurricane. It rolled back out to 39A on June 10, 1966 and was moved off 39A for the last time on October 14, 1966.

There were only only 2 launches of a Titan IIIC during that time span and both were from LC 41. The launch on June 16, 1966 was the 4th launch of the IIIC so that had to be the one in the picture.

Bob

Sources below.

Chronology from https://astronautix.com/

1966 May 25 - First full-scale Apollo Saturn V launch vehicle rolled out AS-500-F, the Pathfinder first full-scale Apollo Saturn V launch vehicle and spacecraft combination, was rolled out from Kennedy Space Center's Vehicle Assembly Building to the launch pad 39 A, for use in verifying launch facilities, training crews, and developing test procedures. The 111-meter, 227,000-kilogram vehicle was moved by a diesel-powered steel-link-tread crawler-transporter exactly five years after President John F. Kennedy asked the United States to commit itself to a manned lunar landing within the decade. Meanwhile, schedule for Saturn V threatened by continued problems in development of S-II stage (inability to get sustained 350-second burns without instrumentation failures, shutoffs, minor explosions).

Chronology from NASA SP-4204

Less than two weeks later, that concept received an unscheduled test under emergency conditions. In early June hurricane Alma skirted Florida's east coast. Debus put the mobile concept through its paces. At 1:00 p.m. on 8 June, he ordered 500-F back to the assembly building. Within three hours, the launch team had disconnected the mobile launcher from its moorings. Wind gusts over 80 kilometers per hour spurred the efforts. The crawler began the return trip at 5:33, taking one hour to descend the 392-meter sloping ramp. Sheets of rain and 96-kilometer-per-hour gusts accompanied the crawler team on the straightaway as they urged their ponderous vehicle to its top speed. The crew reached the assembly building at 11:43 p.m. and had the mobile launcher secure on its mounts one hour later.49

During the delay caused in cleaning the LOX lines, the board scheduled the crawler's first lift of the mobile service structure for 20 July. Mobile launcher 1, with 500-F aboard, was back at pad A where the crawler had transported it after hurricane Alma's departure. The Bendix crawler crew spent two days in preliminary runs on the crawlerway and pad ramp and then carried the mobile service structure to the top of pad A for compatibility tests. Interest centered on the fit of the structure's five clamshells around the Saturn. Launch officials also tested the service structure's water deluge System.53

500-F came down in mid-October, ending seven months of valuable service.57

Chronology from

https://www.space.com/news/cs-080107-saturn5-tennisshoes-topple.html

On May 25, 1966, 500F made its first trip out to the pad atop a crawler transporter (the same pad and crawler are still in use today by the space shuttle). Testing continued successfully throughout the summer, only interrupted by a series of minor problems.

On June 8, the Saturn V was rolled back into the Vertical Assembly Building (VAB) temporarily as Hurricane Alma moved close to the Florida coast. As the winds remained below critical levels, the ground crew expressed surprise by the order to return the rocket to its shelter. The general consensus among workers was that the center's director, Kurt Debus, had called for the roll back as an opportunity to practice a maneuver not yet tried.

Ray Byrd, a Boeing mechanical systems engineer for the Saturn V's first stage, remembers spending a lonely night monitoring pressures in the rocket as it was returned to the VAB. There were concerns related to maintaining the integrity of the stack were the pressures to fall. Byrd sat alone on the crawler beneath the booster as it swayed in the driving rain and high winds.

Another Boeing engineer, Art Scholz, was stationed as an observer in a cab on top of the mobile launcher platform, where he reported measured wind velocities. Byrd recalls the fear in Scholz's voice as he called back during gusts.

Byrd, Scholz and the 500F made it safely inside the VAB that evening and two days later, on June 10, the rocket returned to the launch pad for further fuel loading tests.

During propellant loading trials on Aug. 19, an 18-inch (46-cm) liquid oxygen (LOX) feed line ruptured, dumping 800,000 gallons (three million liters) of fuel from the storage tank at the pad. The loss of propellant caused the inner shell of the LOX storage tank to collapse inwards 16 feet (4.8 meters). Re-pressurization of the tank popped it back out again.

Testing with the rocket was completed at the pad and on Oct. 14, it was brought to the VAB to be destacked. There were tentative plans, never realized, to reassemble SA-500F and repeat the facilities checkout operations at the other Saturn launch pad, 39-B, the following summer.

LC40 Chronology

1965 June 18 - 14:00 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-7 Titan 3C Transtage 5 Mass: 9,694 kg (21,371 lb). Agency: USAF. Perigee: 168 km (104 mi). Apogee: 191 km (118 mi). Inclination: 32.10 deg. Period: 88.10 min. Launch vehicle test. Space craft engaged in investigation of spaceflight techniques and technology (US Cat A).

1965 October 15 - 17:23 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-4 FAILURE: Partial Failure. LCS 2 Spacecraft: LCS. Agency: USAF. Perigee: 730 km (450 mi). Apogee: 785 km (487 mi). Inclination: 32.30 deg. Period: 99.98 min. Dual launch with OV2-1; upper stage broke up.

1966 November 3 - 13:50 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-9 OV4-03 Spacecraft: OV4. Agency: USAF. Perigee: 298 km (185 mi). Apogee: 305 km (189 mi). Inclination: 32.80 deg. Period: 90.40 min. Space craft engaged in investigation of spaceflight techniques and technology (US Cat A).

LC41 Chronology

1965 December 21 - 14:00 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-8 OV2-03 Mass: 193 kg (425 lb). Spacecraft: OV2. Agency: USAF. Perigee: 321 km (199 mi). Apogee: 22,846 km (14,195 mi). Inclination: 26.80 deg. Period: 399.30 min. Upper stage separation failed. Space craft engaged in investigation of spaceflight techniques and technology (US Cat A).

1966 June 16 - 14:00 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-11 GGTS 1 Mass: 47 kg (103 lb). Spacecraft: GGTS. Agency: USAF. Perigee: 33,663 km (20,917 mi). Apogee: 33,858 km (21,038 mi). Inclination: 4.20 deg. Period: 1,334.00 min. Gravity gradient stabilization tests. Space craft engaged in investigation of spaceflight techniques and technology (US Cat A).
1966 August 26 - 13:59 GMT - Launch Vehicle: Titan. LV Model: Titan 3C . Titan IIIC 3C-12 FAILURE: Payload fairing broke up 78 seconds after launch. IDCSP (8) ... IDCSP (14) Spacecraft: IDCSP. Agency: U.S. Air Force. 8 satellites, each weighing 45 kg.
 
One problem, folks: unless I'm sorely mistaken, LC41 is the scaffolding that's clearly between the Titan and the 500F. The Titan appears to be launching from LC40, further on down the row.

Who knew this was so complicated? :confused:
 
One problem, folks: unless I'm sorely mistaken, LC41 is the scaffolding that's clearly between the Titan and the 500F. The Titan appears to be launching from LC40, further on down the row.

Who knew this was so complicated? :confused:

Arggghhhhh! Who cares?! It's a great looking photo which is why the post was started to begin with!
 
Arggghhhhh! Who cares?! It's a great looking photo which is why the post was started to begin with!
Who cares?????

Who Cares????

Blasphemy!

Heretic!

Shun the nonbeliever.
 
The only explanation is that this is a doctored photo. Further proof that the Apollo moon missions never actually took place and were all fabricated in a studio!! :D


Really nice photos for all that posted them. Thanks for the digging.
 
Great photo! First time I've seen that one. Here are a couple of other rarely-seen pics .... (think of this not so much as a thread hijack but a topic expansion) :)

SLC601A.jpg

SLC608.jpg
 
The Titan looks like it has a Gemini capsule on it in the pic. The core looks too short to be the MOL mockup and the payload was for gravity gradient stabilization testing. Hmm. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me and it is a regular cone. :confused2:
 
Thanks for the research a few other people have asked, and I didn't have time to look into the originally passed on info. Like I said he guessed it was '72, clearly corrected by the above discussion.

Glad the photo has been well enjoyed, and a history teaching point

Love the SLC-6 Vandy-land photos too.

If anyone is interested in the uncompressed photo shoot me a PM with your e-mail and I'll gladly forwarded it.
 
Thanks for the research a few other people have asked, and I didn't have time to look into the originally passed on info. Like I said he guessed it was '72, clearly corrected by the above discussion.

Glad the photo has been well enjoyed, and a history teaching point

Love the SLC-6 Vandy-land photos too.

If anyone is interested in the uncompressed photo shoot me a PM with your e-mail and I'll gladly forwarded it.

thanks its a beautiful shot :)
Cheers
fred
 
Oh wow this is a blast from the past in multiple ways. As for a emailing the higher res version that I offered above not sure I have it anymore.
 
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