Thinking of buying a mini-lathe?

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prfesser

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The half-hour this video will take from your life is well worth it:
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/31/take-a-mini-lathe-for-a-spin/
Lots of stuff I didn't know. Examples: Change gears on a lot of these items are delrin plastic, and can/will stress crack. You can buy metal replacements but...the price! whew! Very slow feeds may not be possible. Is there a threading dial for engaging the half-nuts? (Maybe, maybe not) The 7x10 can be almost useless by the time you have the chuck in place and are ready to install a drill bit in the tailstock; 7x14 is better.

Best -- Terry
 
I bought a Jet 12" lathe and it works well enough, but seems under-powered. (It will bog down unless you take only the lightest of cuts.) Maybe I can tune it up to work a bit better; thanks for posting the video!
 
The half-hour this video will take from your life is well worth it:
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/31/take-a-mini-lathe-for-a-spin/
Lots of stuff I didn't know.

Best -- Terry

This Old Tony is one of the more entertaining maker Channels on YouYube. And this one was timely - I was looking at a lathe not too different from the one he reviews (probably the same manufacturer, just a different badge). He talked me out of it.

It will be interesting to see if he does do the CNC conversion on the mini lathe. I watched his 4th Axis adventures a couple of times while trying to decide on a CNC router purchase.
 
This is lathe I have:
https://www.southern-tool.com/store/birmingham_ycl-1236gh_lathe.php

All gearhead driven with an oil-filled crank case. Quick gear change levers. 1 HP motor, 220V single phase.

Found it used in perfect condition for $1500 about 12 years ago. Lots of extra tools and centers included.

The lathe being reviewed in the video to which prfesser linked is this one (more or less)

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It is an inexpensive bench-top lathe that -- per the TOT review -- is actually a lot more capable than you'd expect. It does a credible job with plastic and non-ferrous metals in his tests. However, it also looks like it is just one too-ambitious attempt from turning itself into scrap.
 
This is lathe I have:
https://www.southern-tool.com/store/birmingham_ycl-1236gh_lathe.php

All gearhead driven with an oil-filled crank case. Quick gear change levers. 1 HP motor, 220V single phase.

Found it used in perfect condition for $1500 about 12 years ago. Lots of extra tools and centers included.

Sure, go ahead, gloat and lord it over the rest of us. And here I am with a used South Bend, older than my mother (literally) that turns a 0.004" taper in a 4" bore. :(

Grumpy old man Terry
 
Sure, go ahead, gloat and lord it over the rest of us. And here I am with a used South Bend, older than my mother (literally) that turns a 0.004" taper in a 4" bore. :(

Grumpy old man Terry

Us grumpy old men have to stick together. You can realign the old South Bend tail stock to remove that taper runout. You can buy a reference bar on Ebay or make your own. Then adjust the base of the tail on the ways, and adjust the in/out alignment on the tail stock grip on the ways. Here's a long video of the process:

If you're making small parts, adjust it where you will be setting the tailstock that distance from the chuck. You should be able to get the taper down to 0.001". Some tailstocks have taper adjustment screws. Or use shims.
 
Us grumpy old men have to stick together. You can realign the old South Bend tail stock to remove that taper runout. You can buy a reference bar on Ebay or make your own. Then adjust the base of the tail on the ways, and adjust the in/out alignment on the tail stock grip on the ways. Here's a long video of the process:

If you're making small parts, adjust it where you will be setting the tailstock that distance from the chuck. You should be able to get the taper down to 0.001". Some tailstocks have taper adjustment screws. Or use shims.


You’re exactly right, John, but if he’s getting that taper when boring, I don’t think the tailstock is involved. More likely wear to the ways or movement in the spindle. The headstock on my belt drive Jet 1336 has an adjustment to line it up with the ways. If that’s off boring will have a taper also. I don’t know if the old SB lathes have that adjustment.
 
My brother bought one of those (I think 7X12's) about three years ago. Think he used it once..Pretty neat looking little lathe, just don't expect to be able to actually use it for well....Anything...
 
I've considered getting one strictly for nozzles.. Graphite makes a stunningly big mess. :)
 
Machines require mass for stability and accuracy. Ain't gonna happen with 20 pounds of lathe. Never attempted machining graphite but I have sharpened a pencil. It might work "ok" for that. The real beauty would be the fact that you could carry it outside to do it:).
 
I started on a 7x10 Seig mini lathe. It could turn 75mm motor hardware [and in stainless, not just aluminum]. The more you know how to use one, the more these little lathes can do. Plastic gears are not particularly desirable, however they are not holding one back either. There is a lot of home-machinist forum support that can really help one get up to speed. I made a number of mods to mine to get it the way I wanted. I only had to upgrade so I could cut 8" hardware.

A basic budget assumption with machine tools is that tooling will cost at least as much as the machine. I find this to be true.

br/

Tony
 
You're absolutely correct on the tooling costs, they sky's pretty much the limit. The best way to buy a lathe is to be patient and possibly willing to travel for the "right" used deal. Everybody gets to a point/age where they no longer use tools. As a bonus you reap the benefit of someone elses many years of collecting the correct tooling. Be prepared to spend some time with some of these older gentlemen weather you buy or not, they tend to have great stories, info and advice. I helped a buddy pick up an old but excellent condition 14"x60"? (don't recall the manufacturer) lathe and tooling that alone would cost thousands from a retired machinist that was probably 90ish. We spent hours with him, he got the whole mess for $800 and the owner was happy as could be that it was going to a good home. Just keep in mind and use common sense, everything wears out and everyone thinks a totally abused/worn out South Bend anything is made of gold.
 
Machines require mass for stability and accuracy. Ain't gonna happen with 20 pounds of lathe. Never attempted machining graphite but I have sharpened a pencil. It might work "ok" for that. The real beauty would be the fact that you could carry it outside to do it:).

At about the 2:53 mark in the review, he bolts the lathe to his welding table.

The use case for a lathe like this does not exactly coincide with the use case for jsdemar's South Bend lathe.

FWIW, I was looking at this because I don't have room for anything larger, and because the full sized lathes to which I have access are not available at times when I can conveniently get to the maker space (and because Aliexpress keeps sending me emails announcing lower- and lower-priced versions ).

A basic budget assumption with machine tools is that tooling will cost at least as much as the machine. I find this to be true.

Yeah. It is the total cost, with tools and upgrades, that is most discouraging (to me).

The TOT review was helpful because he kind of knows what he is doing in the shop, he started out with lathe much like the one he reviews and has since graduated to more capable not-for-hobbyist tools. It is worth noting that his uncommonly well-informed opinion is that it is a good buy for a home shop.
 
I don't find that cheap and good occur together very often when it comes to lathes. Patience and thorough searching can find those good deals. Learning how to set up/adjust a lathe will help getting successful result whether its used or new. If buying new, one does not have to spend all that tooling money up front. Developing proficiency at sharpening can save a lot of money on bits. Only buying what's needed for the actual project at hand [not the project one 'might' do] can also reduce spending [but takes the sport out of it]. Once I figured out that I would use it consistently, I gradually built up quick change tool posts, indexable tooling, boring and parting tools, milling attachments, steady rests, rotary tables, etc. I tend to put the largest chuck it will swing easily [5inch for this mini lathe] and go up one size on the tool post to carry bigger boring bars. The long bed is extremely desirable for the reasons given. LMS offers a lot of supporting parts and equipment, but not for cheap, so aggressive shopping still helps.

For graphite I hold the shop vac right at the tool post. Taping down a paper towel apron over everything within 8 inches helps too, as a little always seem to escape even a powerful shop vac. Works great.

The reviewer went out of his way to find the worst possible example of this lathe and I think he succeeded. The plastic change gears that don't fit are an example of the type of things to look for. A fine solution is to buy more plastic gears and fit them correctly rather than force them on like the factory does. The market has pushed the price of an already serviceable [i.e. not plastic] version to about $800 delivered, so watching eBay, Craigslist, or buy it out of the trunk of someone's car at LDRS for $200 like I did, is a prudent way to go. The motor is small but adequate, as are most other aspects, for aluminum up to about 3 inches.

br/

Tony
 
I bought this about 14? years ago. It's a 9"x32" lathe with a mill that without a knee is limited at best. It simply is too small/light of a machine to have the necessary rigidity for anything substantial with any sort of accuracy. I consider it more of a "neat toy" than a real machine. Think it was around $1100 to my door. While it has paid for itself several times over I could have done much better going the used route.
One thing you will discover though is that when people find out you have one they'll give you tons of tooling they've had "just sitting around for years". I've been given way more tooling than I've ever bought.20190101_183253.jpg
 
I've had a mini-lathe and used it extensively for a few years. They do need a bunch of adjustments to improve them (check out Frank Hoose's info on mini-lathe.com), but you can do an awful lot in aluminum and delrin once you figure things out. You will absolutely need to do a headstock-to-ways alignment and a tailstock alignment to minimize unwanted taper (which I've got down to about .0015 in 5") I started with a HF unit but if I was going to do it again I'd get one from Little Machine Shop with the bigger motor. It is not super rigid but mine still takes .040 roughing cuts in aluminum. Single best add-on is to get a 4" or 5" 4-jaw chuck and learn to indicate to get near zero runout - much better results than with the cheesy 3" 3-jaw they come with. Also you will want a quick-change tool post (QCTP) and the cam-lock tailstock. Even though it only has an 0.8" spindle bore I can chuck up a bar of 3/4" aluminum and make charge wells like crazy. Also very handy for machining out AeroPack retainers for tube size variants - I just buy the smallest ones now in each series and enlarge to suit. I am looking to get a bigger gearhead lathe but the mini-lathe has been a good learning experience. Despite all the extra stuff you need to get it's still the least expensive way to get in the game.

I agree that Old Tony somehow found the most egregiously bad instance of a mini-lathe that I've ever seen. Not even sure that one originated from SIEG. If I was entering the mini-lathe space again I would start with this 7x16: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5100 which already has the 4" chuck, longer bed, camlock tailstock and 500W motor.
 
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I think he was intentionally looking for the cheapest and therefore worst quality of the bunch. I think he succeeded.

I've seen good work done on them, and if you are willing to work on it, treating it like a kit, you can likely do alright on softer materials.

The biggest reason I would advise against them is that they are almost always being looked at by people with no machining background. Those people don't know what it takes to make a little machine like that work. So they get poor results and get frustrated, thinking they aren't going to be able to make parts. When if they were put in front of a remotely decent machine they would be fine. A bit like taking a new rocket builder and wanting them to build a dual deploy HPR with no directions.
 
Also think very hard about how much time you're willing to spend "making" that lathe work. Sure, you can make things with it, but you can make the same things with hand tools. The difference is time and effort invested. A good sturdy machine will cut your time and probably accuracy by scores. And when you finally realize your folly, the resale value of the lathe and related "mini" form factor tooling (since it's of no use on a larger machine) will be somewhere around 10 percent of your investment. You then can use that as a starting point to save up for a "real" lathe.
 
I've had a mini-lathe and used it extensively for a few years. They do need a bunch of adjustments to improve them (check out Frank Hoose's info on mini-lathe.com), but you can do an awful lot in aluminum and delrin once you figure things out. You will absolutely need to do a headstock-to-ways alignment and a tailstock alignment to minimize unwanted taper (which I've got down to about .0015 in 5") I started with a HF unit but if I was going to do it again I'd get one from Little Machine Shop with the bigger motor. It is not super rigid but mine still takes .040 roughing cuts in aluminum. Single best add-on is to get a 4" or 5" 4-jaw chuck and learn to indicate to get near zero runout - much better results than with the cheesy 3" 3-jaw they come with. Also you will want a quick-change tool post (QCTP) and the cam-lock tailstock. Even though it only has an 0.8" spindle bore I can chuck up a bar of 3/4" aluminum and make charge wells like crazy. Also very handy for machining out AeroPack retainers for tube size variants - I just buy the smallest ones now in each series and enlarge to suit. I am looking to get a bigger gearhead lathe but the mini-lathe has been a good learning experience. Despite all the extra stuff you need to get it's still the least expensive way to get in the game.

I agree that Old Tony somehow found the most egregiously bad instance of a mini-lathe that I've ever seen. Not even sure that one originated from SIEG. If I was entering the mini-lathe space again I would start with this 7x16: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5100 which already has the 4" chuck, longer bed, camlock tailstock and 500W motor.
My intention is not to be combative about this, just trying to save Ya'll a bunch of money and frustration. I speak not only from direct hands on experience but also lessons taught/learned from friends, one of whom owned a machine shop specializing in aircraft and military contracts for 28 years. Sadly, the state of our current bureaucratically controlled economy caused him to become fed up enough to sell the business. One example: It got to the point where they were demanding that he make parts in lots of thousands and hold them in stock for immediate delivery while taking a shipment of only a few at a time over a period of months. The business was still viable but the profit margins didn't offset the frustrations so he bailed. I had access to his shop, knowledge and machines any time they were not setup for production runs which came in VERY handy during my drag racing days. Yes CNC is a marvelous thing. What I'm seeing here is a series of attempts at justifying the purchase of a disappointing at best tool. Bangin' out chargewells does not in my mind do it. You need to make somewhere around 30,000 of 'em before it even begins to make any sort of economic sense. If you're doing it from a hobby/entertainment perspective then I understand since we all tend to do similar (except usually on a much cheaper scale). Odds are it'd work "ok" for machining graphite but again, how many custom nozzles (that you can easily have made for you) do you need to make before it makes sense. You just WAY overspent on a one or two trick pony. From what I'm seeing here with the new chucks/tooling/turret toolposts etc. you're easily into the price range of even a vaunted used Southbend. Do yourself a huge favor and look around for an older but good condition Atlas, Southbend or equivalent that will not only do pretty much anything you can dream up but will actually have realistic resale value when you decide to either step up or give up. And for the "I don't have space for a larger machine" crowd, either buy,rent or borrow space or just farm out your machining projects, you'll be that much further ahead in time, frustration and money. If after reading this you still insist on a mini lathe, at least buy used. Most of them have been used a few times and left to sit, I seriously doubt you'll have to worry about one of these being "worn out" from use. Let the prior owner take the financial hit and buy for pennies on the dollar. Hope this makes sense.
 
And...If anyone wants to stop by and try out and or make something on my machine (located in Kenosha Wi.) you are more than welcome. Only thing I ask is that you show some competence/not get hurt, and clean up your mess. Might give you an insight as to what I speak of before spending money. Technically I own a "mini" lathe but in reality it's a mid size compared to the machines you're referencing. But in comparison to the Clausing engine lathe in my buddys' garage (it's the size of a small car) it's tiny. He actually laughed out loud at me when I bought it, then he proceeded to help me set it up correctly;)
 
I think a thing to mention is that you should decide if you want to try machining as a hobby or "working on machines" as a hobby. :)

My lathe is an 11x27 and it's a toy compared to the industrial stuff, but it's big enough to be accurate and take decent cuts. I initially started looking at the minis, but talked with some machining people and did some research to decide to move to a better machine. I'm glad I did.

If you really do want to try machining and must have a tiny machine, I would say try Little Machine Shop for the mini sizes, or even Shearline for a little smaller, but well regarded small size machine. That way you're at least getting a better starting place. And note that a machine that looks the same may be VERY different in the details that matter.
 
My intention is not to be combative about this, just trying to save Ya'll a bunch of money and frustration.

You might need to clean the contact under your "return" key.

I speak not only from direct hands on experience but also lessons taught/learned from friends, one of whom owned a machine shop specializing in aircraft and military contracts for 28 years. Sadly, the state of our current bureaucratically controlled economy caused him to become fed up enough to sell the business. One example: It got to the point where they were demanding that he make parts in lots of thousands and hold them in stock for immediate delivery while taking a shipment of only a few at a time over a period of months.The business was still viable but the profit margins didn't offset the frustrations so he bailed

28 years seems like a pretty good run. I think my longest employment at anything (so far) was 12 years.

If you're doing it from a hobby/entertainment perspective then I understand since we all tend to do similar (except usually on a much cheaper scale).

Yes. This. It is a hobbyists' tool.

I think a thing to mention is that you should decide if you want to try machining as a hobby or "working on machines" as a hobby. :)

As far as I can tell, the one always leads to the other. Right now I am drawing up plans for an almost-zero clearance throat plate for my table saw, which I will fabricate from aluminum. Because I can.

TOT just posted another video -- changing out the bearings on the spindle on the POS mini lathe.

It looks like he's pulled the video, but about a year ago (I think) he did a tear-down/upgrade of a rebadged WEN bench-top drill press. If you think upgrading the mini-lathe is a fool's errand, that project would have been a pure waste of time and money -- except that it got him views and subscribers, and that it was also a really effective and compelling way to review the tool.
 
As far as I can tell, the one always leads to the other.

That's not an unreasonable interpretation. :) Like any tool, lathes need maintenance and occasional repairs.

TOT just posted another video -- changing out the bearings on the spindle on the POS mini lathe.

I saw that one. It looks like it helped a fair bit. More than I expected it would.

It sounds like you are considering buying one. I would say keep watching TOT and perhaps check with him to see if he's planning to do more with his. Like I said before, I've seen lots of good work done on them. They have limits like any tool, but if you stay in them they do work. It's also fair to say that I have never owned one. Just talked to people that have. I would still recommend getting something better than the cheapest direct from China you can find like the TOT video, but they can be made to work, as he proved.

While tooling does add up, it doesn't have to be purchased all at once and you can start with lower end stuff. For the mini, 1/4" tooling is likely stiffer than the machine, and can be had cheaply. A small drill chuck if it doesn't come with one, drill bits if you don't have a set... Perhaps a bench grinder if you want to grind HSS tool bits for even cheaper tools. That would get you turning parts. HF digital calipers and micrometer are cheap and good enough for starting. Old school analog micrometers are pretty cheap online too.
 
I bought a Chinese 7X14 last year. I use it to make aluminum and graphite stuff to 80mm, cuts over six thou in 3" aluminum tend to bog. It turns out research closures and nozzles up to 75 mm slowly but surely. That's good enough for me, but 3" is the very limit of the machines capabilities over the carriage. It's possible to turn 7" over the bed but I haven't done anything that big. I've made 54 mm casting caps and tapered mandrels, made an aluminum spacer ring for my brothers Punisher, firework gerb and bp motor tooling, etc. Haven't turned anything in steel, but I expect it would be very slow. I had to take the carriages apart and redo all the gib clearances before it would face without chatter. (really sloppy fits out of the box, but tightened up just fine). Plastic gears haven't broken yet, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to crash the chuck! Being portable is nice. I take it outside to make nozzles. (downwind) I have considered larger machines, but I'm not sure if I can justify the cost since I only need small stuff. If there's even a chance you would be making anything bigger, watch and wait for a bigger lathe to come along instead.
 
It sounds like you are considering buying one.

Not any more. I am lazy and would have liked to bolt down to the basement in my pajamas the moment I am inspired to turn some brass. <smile> I have access to a couple of big metal lathes if I need to turn something. I just have to book time with the maker space to use them (and, of course, I have to schlep the stock and finished parts back and forth from the maker space to my shop)

While we are usually better-paid than chemistry professors (for obvious reasons), physics instructors are not fabulously wealthy. TOT did me a favor with this review. I will find some other place to spend the money (probably on more bar clamps).
 
Not any more. I am lazy and would have liked to bolt down to basement in my pajamas the moment I am inspired to turn some brass. <smile> I have access to a couple of big metal lathes if I need to turn something. I just have to book time with the maker space to use them (and, of course, I have to schlep the stock and finished parts back and forth from the maker space to my shop)

While we are usually better-paid than chemistry professors (for obvious reasons), physics instructors are not fabulously wealthy. TOT did me a favor with this review. I will find some other place to spend a the money (probably on more bar clamps).

Metalworking or Woodworking....you never seem to have enough clamps or the right types (I have about 75 and still never seem to have the size I need in whatever quantity is needed).

I have been seriously looking at the Grizzly 10x22 with DRO for awhile.
 
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