The Real Rocket Challenge

[llickteig1]

I've had some mixed feelings about what's going on in rocketry right now. I applaud the "Save Rocketry Now" folks for their grassroots effort to leverage our upcoming television coverage and give hobby rocketry a big transfusion of new members. I will participate and I hope our ranks swell by the thousands. At the same time, however, I question: Does the hobby as a whole have "The Right Stuff" at this time to attract a large number of new members and most importantly to keep them?

Millions of Americans are about to be exposed to the rush many of us felt when Aurora flew arrow-straight almost 30,000 feet into the Kansas sky in July. I'm sure FirstTV did a fine job of capturing the teamwork required to pull off that and many other projects to be featured in the Discovery Channel's "Rocket Challenge" series. America will let out a collective groan, just as we did when they witness The Cow splinter into a hundred fragments on the prairie. They will laugh at the thought of a flying Porta-Potty and at the sight of the unfortunate result of that ill-fated flight, just as we did. Many people will say, "Gee, I want to be a part of a hobby like that." Hopefully, they will also discover and experience (as most of us have) the family-like fraternity of rocketeers who spend so much time together on blazing summer afternoons staring up into the sun, or on freezing winter mornings with paralyzed fingers rigging a recovery system.

But what will happen when a new crop of Born-Again or First-Time Rocketeers get involved and find out that the federal government is trying to regulate their newfound hobby out of existence? When they find out that the propellant we use is considered an explosive by an agency of the Federal government that requires a permit to purchase, transport, and store it; what do we do to keep them from becoming discouraged (as I fear many of us are becoming)? What will their wives say when they tell them they need an explosives storage magazine in the garage, have to be fingerprinted, and have to compromise their 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure? Many will be up for the challenge. Some will not.

How will we convince the prospective new members that the bickering and in fighting that goes on with regard to magazine publication, appropriation of funds, leadership style, and other issues are no big deal? How do we keep a lid on a few individuals who are an embarrassment to the hobby and who just won't pipe down? Sometimes we might feel like saying to new members, "Welcome to the madness." That's embarrassing, but we'll persist and overcome it by being embarrassed FOR the malcontents, not BECAUSE of them.

At first, I personally didn't like the title "Save Rocketry Now". Rocketry is essentially the same as it was when I came on board a few years ago and I don't really think it needs 'saving'. But, I then realized we ARE saving rocketry by trying to revitalize and rejuvenate it with new blood, which will breathe new life into the rocketry vendors, which will in turn keep the hobby from dying on the vine. So, okay, I'll accept the title, after all, its just three words with a whole lot more meaning behind them. I DO think we should all keep in the back of our minds that what we're going through right now could be considered "The Real Rocket Challenge," and it goes far beyond what will be seen on TV. It also goes beyond a donation of money or merchandise. It is about determined and directed effort and persistence. Getting a whole slew of new members is not a panacea for the hobby. The challenges we face will still exist until we WIN, either in federal court or on the floor of the U.S. Congress. Our ultimate challenge is keeping the vitality of hobby rocketry.

It has been stated very eloquently that the local clubs and prefectures need to be equipped to welcome and retain new members gained as a result of the excitement generated by the "Rocket Challenge" series. I would look for some guidance from the national organizations to provide a unified front reg arding methods for local clubs to acquire and retain potentially large numbers of new members. I would also welcome published and "official" tactical and strategic plans for addressing regulation (particularly federal) and for minimizing the regulatory impact on individuals participating in the hobby. This guidance might be conceived in various grassroots or local efforts that are passed down through national organization channels, but guidance is needed as we face our challenge. Give us, the rank and file, the guidance and we'll carry the hobby rocketry banner to every region of this continent

As we prepare to put forward our best face in perhaps our finest hour, is each of us up for The Real Rocket Challenge?

Respectfully,

Lance B. Lickteig
TRA #8569 L2
KloudBusters

 

[jflis]

Well, the approach that *I* would take may be considered the "soft-sell", but I beleive that it is valid, approachable and the best for the overall umbrella that we call "Sport Rocketry"

Very few (if any) people getting into the hobby for the *first* time are going to begin with mid or high power. They are going to begin with *model* rocketry. This is where *model* rocketry should be *everyone's* friend.

This also holds true for virtually all soon-to-be BAR's. They will reenter via *model* rocketry. They may transition into Mid or High power after their first launch, or after several launches, but their **first** launch after a 10, 20, 30 year absence from the sport will rarely be an I motor...

*model* rocketry does not currently have any of the restriction or threats that mid and hpr are experiencing. (i'm not saying that it won't in the future, but it doesn't at this time), so folks can get into the hobby of sport rocketry via the readily available avenue of *model* rocketry.

Now, *model* rocketry can then instill into these hobbiest a love and devotion of the hobby. Make the hobby of *sport* rocketry something to cherish and something worth fighting for.

If someone comes into the hobby for the very first time from an HPR point of view and encounteres all of the problems currently plauging the HPR sport, they will quickly get discouraged and move on to something with less restrictions, like hunting or sport shooting (note wink there... )

HOWEVER, if this person enters sport rocketry via *model* rocketry (which is more likely anyway), they don't have these restrictions, they can GET full enjoyment for the hobby then (if there interest lie there), look into higher power rocketry. By this time, they will have come to value the entire sport in ways that could not be found via any other approach to the sport. We will now have another advocate who will see the *value* in fighting the good fight rather than just moving on to something else.

I have never flown HPR and rarely fly Mid-power, but I have a healthy respect for both and recognize their full value to the overall umbrella of Sport Rocketry. There is a need and a desire and a value to high and mid power that I recognize even if I don't participate. As a result, I contribute to the fight. I assure you, it is *only* because of my *model* rocketry exposure that I am able to hold these values and respect for other aspects of sport rocketry.

Let's please not fall into the trap where we **introduce** people to sport rocketry by **introducing** them to the legal battles with HPR. It is not a good "first impression" and it is not something they will be overly friendly about (eg: counter productive). Rather, let's show them what they *CAN* do without regulation, permits and rediculous/fictitious laws. Teach them the value of the hobby, both to themselves and to the community in general, then introduce them to the battles that rage that may one day *directly* impact their fun and enjoyment.

I hope this didn't come off as *rightious* or anything. Those of you who know me know my views on all of this. I'm just saying that we truely do need to see the forest through the trees on this one. It affects the health of the hobby overall.

jim

 

[Chilly]

Jim, you are absolutely right (and there's a Nomad somewhere in my future). If it's not being presumptuous, my own experience with HPR is a good example of what you're talking about.

I first learned about HPR ten or so years ago after wandering into a hobby store. I knew immediately it was something I wanted to do, but was just too expensive (and this was before HSA etc.). I thought about it occasionally but couldn't find anywhere to get info. Then last year I stumbled onto the Apogee and Aerotech websites. I never even knew there was a middle ground between low and high power. Once I found out there were big rockets I could afford to fly, and local groups to do it with, I was hooked. Now I'm working my way towards Level 1 nice and slow, enjoying every build and every flight along the way. I'm gonna exhaust my MPR "must have" list before going high power.

What's funny is I ended up being much more diverted by the "little stuff" than expected. What started as just something to fly with the kids between big launches turned into a monster in its own right. What I've spent on C & D powered stuff in the last year could've bought an HPR kit and reload system. Oh well. At least I don't have to call the FAA to fly my Mercury Atlas...

 

[lalligood]

Jim,

I've been thinking very much along the lines of what you wrote & agree that anyone (re)entering the hobby is going to ~99% of the time start with LPR. (Count me in as part of that 99%!) Sure I'm getting my feet wet in MPR & HPR now--but I still get a kick out of going to a nearby schoolyard or field & launching a handful of LPRs after a stressful day at the office or just for the heck of it

It seems like many (but certainly not all) folks into MPR/HPR are complaining and/or getting out of the hobby altogether based on the current legislation & hassles from the government. Along with new blood that our hobby could use is a new perspective to innovate new ideas & products that are first & foremost legal while providing a safe, enjoyable, & cost effective means for newcomers to join & us to stay in the hobby.

Occasionally it gets mentioned fthat hybrid motors are currently free of any & all legislation right now (although I don't think everyone know that), there is an initally steep entry fee to get into that kind of motor, greater basic knowledge of components (especially electronics) required, etc., BUT HYBRIDS ARE LEGAL. What if every NAR/TRA club chipped in & bought 2, 3, or 5 GSEs? Like any (initally) expensive technology, the cost would come down. Will it ever be as cheap as APCP? Who knows... I could make a similar argument for clustering--take what we can use, just use more of 'em at the same time. (Does it really matter if we get H powered thrust from a single motor or a pair of Gs?!?) Rise to the challenge of learning a new technique. Surely there are other alternatives that we haven't fully investigated either.

Bottom line is we can choose (because it is a choice after all) to be complacent, no longer enjoying the hobby we love *OR* we can find new ways to do the things we want legally. More bluntly than that, we can INNOVATE OR DIE.

OK, so maybe I'm just a happy-go-lucky BAR that's only been back in the hobby for the last 6 months or so & see everything through rose colored glasses (or whatever cliche you want to use). So while I'm hoping to certify Level 1 here in the next couple of weeks, I've never experienced my own creation taking to the skies on anything greater than a G motor. Maybe I wouldn't miss launching anything that big (well, until I saw other people's rockets on H, I, & Js!) if I hadn't seen it before. That still doesn't mean that I shouldn't ever be allowed to launch something that powerful if I wanted...it's just about finding new ways than what we've done in the past.

Time for me to get off my soapbox now...

 

[illini]

Here's my perspective. I'm a maybe-BAR...heck, didn't even know what "BAR" stood for until a few months ago. I'm sort-of back into this because I'm introducing my son to the hobby that I loved 25 years ago, that greatly influenced my choice of majors in college, and ultimately my career path. I *know* I don't want my son following my exact footsteps, but I also know how fun rocketry is and that he should at least develop an appreciation of things technical. So I'm back...at least for my son.

Looking at the state-of-the-hobby last summer for the first time in 25 year, my first reaction was: Why bother? Too much trouble brewing. Then I figured a Big Bertha for the boy's birthday couldn't hurt. Now the boy's got the bug, looking forward to doing NARTREK, and maybe even competition in another year or so. All of this is model rocketry and, from what I understand, is not directly impacted by new regulations.

This doesn't mean we don't have cause for concern. Anything negatively impacting any part of this hobby will have some impact on all of it. When HPR hobbyists go away they take their LPR dollars with them and the LPR vendors will be hurt. Fewer LPR vendors -> less variety and selection. Less variety and selection -> Fewer LPR hobbyists...and so on. Clearly, there needs to be a critical mass.

Where will that critical mass come from? In the "old" days, a lot of the interest was sparked by an active and interesting space program. NASA's successes made me and my friends want to fly rockets. The fun caused us to keep doing it. There was no HPR back then. NASA interest and access to LPR was all it took. The NASA factor is gone...don't hold your breath for it to come back. Will the Save Rocketry Now campaign do it? 'tis a noble effort, but my guess is that at least half of those it brings in will lose interest within 6 months. The rest will be in danger of leaving within a year unless they have a mentor to help stoke their interest.

...and there probably lies the rub. Mentors. Grass roots. Fact is that many, if not most people get started in a hobby because they know somebody who can help them along. I had an older brother to mentor me, and my son and his friends have me. It seems to me that mentors are a dominant term in this equation.

 

[Ryan S.]

there are plenty of kids at my school who would want to get into rocketry. It has fire and it wouldd be a ccool thing to do. Everyone here is pretty interested they jsut havent been exposed to it.

I would fly rockets at school if it wasnt direcctly in the flight path to logan airport

Anyway, on another note when people find out you need a goverment permit to get the propellant some, think it adds to the hobby. It will drive many away but I just wanted to bring up the fact that for others is makes it more "hardcore"

 

[aksarben10]

I am not a BAR and never launched a rocket before I was 30 years old. I used to be a very active rock climber and spent most weekends out climbing in West Virginia.

Then my life changed and I moved from the east coast to Nebraska. I knew this was coming and had two years to plan and I knew that that the closest rocks were 8 hours away from where I would be living in Nebraska. So I started looking for a new hobby/money hole, I found it in rocketry which it turns out is a bigger money pit then climbing, for me at least.

I started out buying Sport Rocketry and High Power Rocketry Magazines at my local hobby store and knew right away the HPR is what I wanted to do.

My first rocket was a Binder Thug built for my Level One my next was a AeroTech Mustang and then Loc Lil' Nuke. Then I started getting into smaller rockets. I love them all from my Micro Max rockets to my 54mm minimun diameter rocket designed for I-K motors. I find different challenges with High, Mid and Low power and I like them all but HPR is still my favorite.

If not for High Power rockets I would have thought that model rockets was just for kids and would not have tried the sport/hobby. High power got me in and keeps me in, model rocketry is part of my hobby but not what keeps me here I am also interested in Amature and Experamental rocketry as well.
So, not everyone starts out in low power *model* rocketry.

The idea of the campaign is that we will have so much air time on tv why not take advantage of it to bring new members into rocketry. Who knows where they will start, who knows if they will be BAR's or Joe Smith of the street, who cares more people participating in the hobby can only be a good thing.

Without new blood any organization will suffer and fail. We need new people to energize the hobby and keep it moving forward. This is just a wonderful opperturnity to present rocketry to the public.

It does seem clear to me that the low power or *model* rocketry community is not standing behind this effort at all. If you look at the vendor list the only *model* rocket donations come from Art Applewhite. Where are all the other low power vendors at and why are they not promoting this effort. This effort is to bring more people into rocketry not just HPR but rocketry, the site that the commercials will direct people to is www.flyrockets.org not www.flyhighpower.org it will have references to all types of rocketry it will be positive and upbeat and redirect the visitor to visit the sites of NAR and TRA.

This is not all about high power its about getting new people into rocketry.

Are the *model* rocket vendors forgetting that HPR flyers fly model rockets as well if not more. I myself have about 6-7 low power flights to each H and over. What does that make me a HPR flyer of Low power?? I dont consider myself either just a Rocketeer or Rocket Enthuseist.

Scott Pearson

 

[jflis]

well, i don't want to *get into it*, as it were, but...

First, I know of very few *model* rocketeers who beleive that the various battles that are going on with regard to the BATFE and HPR are frivolous and do not concern them. Heck, I could count them on one hand and I know a LOT of model rocketeers. The vast majority of them agree that it is a fight that needs to be fought and won.

Second, the vast majority of *model* rocketeers are also casual rocketeers and do not have the funds (or don't care to expend them) on a casual past time. I don't blame them. I have dozens of *casual* pasttimes and when I have funds to expend, I expend them on rocketry, not the casual past times.

If you *started* in HPR then you are the exception rather than the rule. Nothing wrong with that, just stating a fact. The relevant thing about the original post is (for the *most* part), when introducing someone to the hobby of sport rocketry, it makes very little sense to introduce them by showing them the battle.

If someone wanted to convince someone else to join the United States (just for example) and become an American citizen it would be poor salesmanship to *start* by showing him all of the people who have died defending our freedoms. The *wise* approach would be to *first* show them the value of the freedoms, THEN explain why/how they are defended and protected against.

Also, if you started rocketry in the HPR realm and knew about the battles and *that* didn't scare you off, then again, you are one of the rare ones (and a very *valued* one) as many more would either be scared off or quickly disinterested.

You said "Without new blood any organization will suffer and fail." I couldn't agree more and that is what we are talking about. I (personally) beleive that we will get FAR more new blood by introducing people to *model* rocketry and let them *grow* to respect the hobby (all of sport rocketry) as they mature and enjoy the hobby more and more.

You also said "It does seem clear to me that the lower power or *model* rocketry community is not standing behind this effort at all.". I couldn't DISagree more... I (FlisKits) is a low power vendor. We have donated HUNDREDS of dollars to this effort, we have spoken out STRONGLY and PUBLICLY about this issue and we are NOT the only ones. In *fact*, the ONLY one that I know of that has specifically NOT gotten involved is Estes, and that is their business choice and protected right. But I urge you, please Do Not lump al model rocketry vendors into such a list. It is not fair nor proper.

Also, please don't equate "dollars" and "publicity" with intent. We have dozens of brandy new *model* rocket vendors out there that are working their butts off just to keep their doors open and keep creative *model* rockets available. They simply haven't the funds to *drive* such an effort as the NAR/TRA legal battle, this commercial, or any other such effort. That doesn't mean they don't support it.

 

[illini]

Ryan,

You cite a great personal example of exactly the type of harvest I'm talking about. I have found the same thing in my own neighborhood. First I got my son into it. Then we started taking his friends with us to launches. None of them had ever even seen a launch, but once they did... Now I'm ordering kits for them as well. We're planning a building session in my house soon once a bulk pack of Pratt Polaris kits arrives. The kids are excited, and I'm excited to give them whatever help I can.

The fact is that model rocketry is NOT a tough sell to kids. Its fun. It has a relatively low startup cost. And it is extremely educational. For many, all they need is someone who is willing to help them build their first kit and get them to launches.

 

[rocket trike]

I am a model rocket vendor to. I am just getting started in the business. I only deal in the low power rockets to. I do agree with Jim on every thing he has said. I have done some mi dpower and a couple low power. I keep going back to the low power. The club we have here does mostly low power lauches. For us to a high power launch we will have to drive 45 min. If you are trying to get people involve with the rocktery hooby you need to do it closer. We do have high power once or twice a year.

As far as Rockethead Rockets donating to Save rocketry now we are in not able to donate right know. I have told Frank that I would be willing to help in anyway. I even said I would head a region for the e-mails.

So I feel that the low power venders are supporting this. We need all of the levels of rocketry to make any of them to work. If you do not have the mid to high power for the dads and moms there would be less kids and other doing the low power.

 

[Ryan S.]

illini868891, your exactly rigght. Little kids love it and go right into it with even little rockets.

Teenagers think its not cool because they have probably expeirenced small rocket before then you show them a HPR and their mind changes instantly

Kid "You launch rockets thats lame"

Me"what this"

*BAR (that doesnt stand for Born agian rocketeer) goes off*

Kid "wow thats awsome"

Kid "Ryan your the man I want to be just like you"

Okay maybe I added the last comment in there but you get the idea

 

[JeffS]

Good points all around. I don't fly HPR, but we do need to win this one. As the first poster said, it will be won or lost in the courts or in congress. So we need to support legislative efforts.
As far as attracting others to the hobby, I think, like others have said, most people will get into it through low power.

Here's a couple of things that I think might help bring new people into the ranks. First, accesible flying fields. Our club has a great field but it's about 65 miles or so from town. I don't mind the drive but I don't know if a guy with a couple of kids and a starter set will set aside a day for it. I know flying fields are hard to come by in a metro area, but if we could just secure an area for a day or weekend and promote a launch we might get more curious folks.

Second, promotion in the hobby shops. Most of the hobby stores (well two of them, not counting Hobby Lobby) carry a few rocket items. None of them have what I woould call "support material", such as books, magazines or club flyers. Maybe just having a few NAR brochures would help.

Overall, I think accesabilty is the most important thing when it comes to attracting newcomers.

 

[illini]

Ryan,

You got it right. When I first took my son to a launch it was mostly to see if *he* was interested in rockets. Then someone flew an I motor hybrid...I nearly wet my diaper. Seeing an HPR launch provides the wow factor a lot of people need. Great thing is that I can get that wow factor while watching someone else risk their hundreds of dollars in equipment! There are plenty of challenges even with LPR. While my involvement so far has been through my son, I've been toying with the idea of getting into competition. As a recovering fluid dynamicist, the competition models strike me as being particularly elegant...something I could sink my teeth into.

Whatever draws 'em in is great. But their interest will be sustained by 1) active and willing mentors, and 2) access (one I hadn't thought of but others rightly brought up).

Here's a question for the masses (an honest question because I don't know): What do your local clubs do to actively draw in new hobbyists? Do you have a mentor system to help new people develop their interest?

One thing I've experienced in other hobbies is that most club members have very little patience or willingness to help newcomers. Their websites say all are welcome to join, but the reality is that they tend to be very cliquish and unwilling to help newbies...then they gripe about diminishing interest in their hobby. I haven't experienced enough of rocket clubs to know whether they are like this. But my suggestion is that it probably isn't enough to lay back and wait for new members to show up and then make them come to you for help. The clubs probably need to be a bit more proactive both in recruiting members and in approaching new members to offer them help and make them feel like they are welcome.

 

[sandman]

One thing I've experienced in other hobbies is that most club members have very little patience or willingness to help newcomers. Their websites say all are welcome to join, but the reality is that they tend to be very cliquish and unwilling to help newbies...

Well, not here!

Welcome aboard illini

sandman

 

[jflis]

illini868891, first, welcome to TRF. I think you've already discovered that this is a very active as well as INTER-active forum

"local clubs" are as varied as you could imagine. Some openly encourage new-comers and do things to teach and keep them. Others *say* they encourage it but do little to back that up and still others are "good-ol-boy" clubs with little interest in having strangers infiltrate their ranks.

CMASS (the club that I fly with) is one of those clubs that really does work hard to bring new people into the hobby and club and work as a team to make them feel welcome, learn and explore.

Another club i've flow with truely *wants* to encourage such growth and new participation and even asked me to help them understand why they can't attract new people. The problem was obvious to me and I explained that they have a large HPR set up but that their LPR setup consisted of a 2X4 laid on the ground with a couple of bent launch rods and a launch control setup with over half the leads non-functional. There was no *real* attention to the LPR community. The net result was a lot of "spectators" enjoying the WOW factor of HPR but no new blood because there was no support for LPR, where most of these people would acutally *start* the hobby.

 

[illini]

Jim,

Thanks for the welcome.

That variance between clubs is exactly the challenge I think the original poster was driving at. The success of the Save Rocketry Now campaign or any other membership drive is going to be measured at the local club level. Overnight jumps in membership are meaningless. Its the long term that counts. If we want new hobbyists and club members to still be hobbyists and club members 5 years from now, it requires an active effort on the part of the clubs. Obviously, not everybody is cut out for this kind of outreach and mentorship. In fact, it would probably be best to keep some people away from new members! However, I believe this needs to be an *activity* of clubs, not a passive statement on a website or in a newsletter. Go out, grab 'em by the ears, sit 'em down, and make 'em have fun!

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the membership statistics and demographics for NAR over time? i.e., for each of the last 30 years, how many members, their gender, age group, etc. Would be interesting to see how these reflect the overall health of rocketry.

 

[slim_t]

I too am mostly into model or Low power rockets, but I mostly enjoy building more than flying, so it doesn't matter to me what I build. But I do fly MPR and hope to get into HPR soon, probably next year, so I have an interest in fighting the battle as well, and donate my efforts and funds when I can. I have about 70 LPR rockets and only 3 MPR and my flight ratio is probably 20 LPR to every MPR. But this is mostly due to the lack of available AT motors and space to fly them in. I can fly LPR in my yard. I haven't been personally affected by the restrictions yet, but I just got my first altimeter and would like to start experimenting with dual deployment, which means I'm about to see what problems I'll face with BP.
I too am a BAR, and have been for about 2 years now. I flew only LPR the first year, then this year got into MPR. And even though the rush from an F or G is much greater than a C, I still enjoy the C's very much. I still spend enough on LPR to have gotten plenty of Mid or High powered goodies.

I agree with most of what has been said here, and don't have much to add, but I do believe the hobby greatly needs more positive exposure, whether it be Low or High power. It seems that in my town noone else is into rocketry. I drive 3 hours just to get to the nearest club launch. In fact, the local hobby store has even told me I'm the only one that buys rockets there. But, anytime someone sees me launching rockets, they love it, and I've gotten a few people involved. I hope to start a club next year. I think most people will be more excited about seeing the big stuff, but when they venture into the hobby they will start with LPR, or maybe MPR such as Aerotech. I don't think many newcomers will run into the "problems" until they are already hooked, so I don't think we should scare the newcomers off by getting into that too early. If we wait until its about to affect them, they will be more likely to support the fight. But the downside is, we need their support now. Sort of a double-edged sword.

Also, the only LPR vendor I've seen not fighting is Estes, which I really don't understand. Maybe they think the restrictions will bring more business to LPR. They should realize it hurts everyone involved, and is bad for all rocketry businesses.
However, I can't boycott Estes since that is the only convenient source of motors for me. But I can buy kits other places.

I too am getting more into clustering to satisfy the need for more power. 5 D's staged to an E makes for quite the experience.

I cant' wait to see the Discovery show and I hope that it gets alot of newcomers involved. And as we continue to fight, let's stay positive, and focus on what we can do instead of what we can't or what's too difficult.

And just think, there have been some good things to come of it all. We have been more creative, more involved, and despite the disagreements there is an overall tighter bond amongst the rocket communities. There is nothing better than a common struggle to bring people together.

slim

 

[aksarben10]

Originally posted by jflis


Let's please not fall into the trap where we **introduce** people to sport rocketry by **introducing** them to the legal battles with HPR. It is not a good "first impression" and it is not something they will be overly friendly about (eg: counter productive). Rather, let's show them what they *CAN* do without regulation, permits and rediculous/fictitious laws. Teach them the value of the hobby, both to themselves and to the community in general, then introduce them to the battles that rage that may one day *directly* impact their fun and enjoyment.

jim

Why do you feel that they Save Rocketry Campaign as one that will introduce people to the legal battles of HPR?

The idea of the campaign is to take advantage of the media/TV attention that we have and direct viewers enthusiasm to a web page called www.flyrockets.com. While the site has not been built yet, the campaign claims that this will be a portal or jumping off point to direct newcomers to information on the hobby and the two major rocketry club NAR and TRA as well as local clubs. Without the commercials many of these people who are watching the show may not know where to go to follow up on what they have seen. The idea it to take that one-two punch from the TV show and give it follow through.

I do not see how this is introducing them to the legislative issues? This is not a site on our legal battles or a site hitting them up for money. This is a site with information on all types of rocketry and one that directs the reader to look further into rocketry and will offer them links to find more information. They may choose to lookup a local NAR or TRA chapter and go to a meeting, the may choose to go to a launch or they may just go to Wally World and buy and Estes kit or they may just do nothing.

The object of the site is to introduce as many people as possible to rocketry in general not just HPR and not the legal issues. I don’t quibble with you that most people will start with and maybe stay with low power as it is cheaper and offers enough challenges for most people for a lifetime.

This is an opportunity that needs to be taken advantage of to bring new people into ROCKETRY as a whole. I agree that we need to show people what they can do with rocketry its value and benefits as well as how fun it is, but its the individuals choice what and where they go with it. The Save Rocketry campaign will not be directing them one way or the other just offering them options.

Scott Pearson

 

[slim_t]

I was just reading through these posts again and I'm not sure where it came up that Save Rocketry Now was an introduction to the legal issues. I can't speak for others, but my comments were not about the campaign itself, but to the questions of what do we do once the newcomers arrive to keep them interested or involved or what do we do to keep them from getting discouraged. I wish I knew. All I know to do is keep building, keep flying, and keep sharing.

I think the Save Rocketry Now campaign is a wonderful thing, and as stated by others, it is an excellent way of introducing people to the hobby in every aspect.

As for how we become proactive, I find it very easy to introduce youngsters to rocketry. I haven't met one yet that didn't enjoy it. I build rockets with all of my nieces and nephews, and as a result, my brother is now involved in it with his kids as well as a couple of my friends. But we all have children, and I don't know if they would be involved if they didn't have children. I, on the other hand, enjoyed it as a youngster so I just picked up where I left off years ago. I'm also about to start teaching rocketry to my niece's enrichment class at school, and maybe that can expand to other classes or schools as well.

But my question is how do you get adults interested? My daughter's favorite, the Exoskell, is hardly going to impress the guys at the office, but my Initiator on an F might, or maybe the Deuces Wild might. I'm hoping that the show and this campaign will capture adults as well as children, but if anyone can offer suggestions as to how to get adults involved, I would appreciate it. I'm a bit afraid to share my excitement with others because I fear they'll think it's childish, which in my case may be true since I'm just a big kid anyway.

slim

 

[illini]

Slim,

I'd say you're a pretty good model of the proactive rocketeer. How do you reach adults? Well...that's clearly a challenge. To be honest, I can't say for sure whether I'll still be involved with it once my son's grown. Heck...technically I'm not involved with it now other than to help my son, although competition may be the thing that gets me into it actively.

Adults are what adults are. If they didn't fly rockets as a kid, they're probably not going to fly rockets as an adult. A lot of 'em are more about image than substance, and rocketry doesn't promote the image they want to project. Those adults won't be drawn to rocketry, and rocketry probably doesn't want them anyway. The adults you want are the ones that realize they're still just kids with lots of layers on top. Frankly, those adults are pretty rare (and their wives and kids look at 'em funny).

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by aksarben10
Why do you feel that they Save Rocketry Campaign as one that will introduce people to the legal battles of HPR?

Scott Pearson

Scott, (and all)

First let me apologize if my comments were taken out of context. Throughout this discussion, I was putting my comments into the context of the original post wherein the question was asked:

"At the same time, however, I question: Does the hobby as a whole have "The Right Stuff" at this time to attract a large number of new members and most importantly to keep them?"

Under NO circumstances do I feel that this discovery program nor the Save Rocketry Campaign was going to "introduce people to the legal battles". I think the program is great (although I hope the program focuses more on the successes than the failure as is common with Discover) and I think the whole Save Rocketry campaign is a great idea.

I am a very strong advocate of all of sport rocketry. I may only *participate* in one aspect of it, but I certainly support all of it and do what I can to show that support and encourage it in others.

jim

 

[slim_t]

Thanks for the compliment and your thoughts. I get looked at funny by my kids and wife all the time, but I think that means they like me. I guess I have layers, like an onion. (I've seen Shrek way too many times).
I imagine most adults have too much to do than get into rockets, or they prefer golf or hunting or fishing, and most will only get into it for their kids, or because they did it as a child, but I know once I got back into it, I couldn't get enough. I just wished more adults would get into it, or maybe the kids I introduce would get their parents involved. It's just so much more fun to have a group launch than a personal launch. More people = more rockets = more fun.

slim

 

[aksarben10]

Originally posted by jflis
Scott, (and all)

First let me apologize if my comments were taken out of context. Throughout this discussion, I was putting my comments into the context of the original post wherein the question was asked:

"At the same time, however, I question: Does the hobby as a whole have "The Right Stuff" at this time to attract a large number of new members and most importantly to keep them?"

Under NO circumstances do I feel that this discovery program nor the Save Rocketry Campaign was going to "introduce people to the legal battles". I think the program is great (although I hope the program focuses more on the successes than the failure as is common with Discover) and I think the whole Save Rocketry campaign is a great idea.

I am a very strong advocate of all of sport rocketry. I may only *participate* in one aspect of it, but I certainly support all of it and do what I can to show that support and encourage it in others.

jim

Thanks, sorry if I was a bit of an A** I get a little over the top sometimes. I may not have taken the whole posting into context and I got stuck on the introducing people to the legal battle thing. I was very excited with the whole idea of the campaign and I was very pleased when Frank introduced it and go it started. Frank is a great guy and a wonderful leader for the Rocketry Community and it is a credit to him that this effort has succeeded.

I do not know if we as a community have the Right Stuff to attract and hold on to new members either. Only time will answer that question but I am glad that we are making an effort to find out the answer. Because of the air time from DC, the commercials and the flyrockets web site we will have a good chance on finding out. We do not have the excitement in the country that we had during the space race so we will have to show people other aspects of the hobby.

The TV show and the commercials are just a funnel to the local clubs it will be these clubs and the people in them who do the heavy lifting from here on.

The local clubs will need to accept the newcomers into the fold and show them the joys of our hobby, which I have no doubt will happen. The people in these clubs today are the core of rocketry and its strength, I have complete faith in them. We also need strong (honest) vendors like Fliskits and many others, to provide the community with quality products that excite the imagination. If we can weather all that has come in the last few years we can go the distance.

Scott Pearson