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hutch

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I still wish we could line up national sponsorship for a TARC team in Canada. I'd be happy to help local high school kids compete, but as it stands, we can't do anything without national sponsorship.
 

dr wogz

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From what I hear there are 7 or 8 teams, UVIC, UBC and UofC are the only ones I know planning on heading there, I imagine the rest may be from central Canada. Sorry not much more details.
dB
David, did any results or anything ever get posted?

I ask, because we all had a say in this thread,and there was a statement that they were launching at Cold lake in August. Yet the original 'launch Canada' website is still the same old-same old..

(If something did happen, maybe the site needs to be updated. Keeping things secret doesn't help build or grow something!!)
 

High Desert Rocketry

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Several university teams from Canada compete at IREC here in the US each year.
Introducing Friends of Amateur Rocketry's 'DPF'
Dollar Per Foot rocket challenge
For more information: https://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/dpf-challenge/

Just for clarification.
This is not a 'competition' like IREC or BASE 11; it is a team challenge for universities to design, build, and launch successful liquid rocket projects. When they have finished their project, they come to FAR and launch when ready. If they meet the challenge requirements and reach say 23,000' they get $23,000. If they only reach 4,000' they get $4,000. No trophy, no first place, nothing like that. So they are rewarded for what they design for and accomplish. If one team shows up say this month and another next month or next March that is fine. We do require a two week notice:
https://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/launch-request/

The registration/launch fee is simply $10 a person per day on site. That includes use of the machine shop, restrooms, camping, etc. In most cases, we provide the launch pad (up to 60’ tall) unless a team desires to build and bring their own.
FAR mission statement: "Our mission is to educate the general public in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) through the use of amateur rocketry; and to foster rocket technology by supporting individuals, hobbyists, student groups, businesses, and other like minded non-profit entities."
 
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Crayok

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David, did any results or anything ever get posted?
Hi Paul Nope the August date was cancelled and a new Nov 1 date was added but unfortunately that was also not achievable. Getting things approved via the military seems to be the hold up. Let the Launch Canada folks know things are out-of-date.

David
 

High Desert Rocketry

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Being down here in California I don't hear much about way up north. Has any thing happened since I posted this thread about LC ? To cut expenses, the FAR 'DPF' challenge might be an option for Canadian teams doing liquid rockets.
 

dr wogz

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If it's any consolation, the Ottawa rocketry group (ORG) launches on a military base (grenade range). They've lost their field by the looks of it.. (talks to renew their "privilege" is still ongoing for the 2019 season..)

David, not to be rude, but it should be up to them to update & maintain their site. I shouldn't' have to send them a reminder.. It's just another impression that they aren't interested or have interest..
 

hutch

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David, did any results or anything ever get posted?

I ask, because we all had a say in this thread,and there was a statement that they were launching at Cold lake in August. Yet the original 'launch Canada' website is still the same old-same old..

(If something did happen, maybe the site needs to be updated. Keeping things secret doesn't help build or grow something!!)
I too am wondering if anything at all happened. I am guessing "no".
 

dr wogz

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Haha! just thinking about this.

I did just cruise they their website. No updates, as they still talk about "upcoming".

They also don't really have a "contact us" button or link, except for a "help make this happen" form.

if I recall, I did enter my name into the "keep me informed" box with my e-mail, but have not received any updates or anything. I have even gone as far as to put my name in for mentoring. Again, no contact. SO, again, a pretty website, an ambitious plan, but little follow-thru. Hard to take this seriously..
 

Dipstick

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From what I understand, they misunderestimated a lot of the work required, beginning with TC. If they ran into the same problem with the military for the Cold Lake site, then ya, nothing happening yet...

Still a cool idea, but a lot of work to make it happen and I certainly don't know what's all been done so far or where it's held up.
 

hutch

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Maybe just good intentions and aspirations. I hope that the sponsors did not put any money into this if nothing comes of it.
 

hutch

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Website was changed to reflect nothing will be happening in 2020, but hey, 2021 is going to be amazing.

I have to seriously doubt it. Lots of talk, little action from this group. Too bad, as they seem to have been great at getting sponsorship.

Canadian universities fly with IREC and Spaceport America Cup, and put there efforts in there.

Unless there is a REAL alternative, not vaporware, they will continue to focus on a launch that is actually happening, rather than some aspirational website with no substance.
 

dr wogz

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Well said Hutch. I'm not holding my breath or expecting any invites or requests for helps & guidance..

It would be nice for them , as well, to acknowledge & reply to those who have already shown interest in helping & volunteering..
 

hutch

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I'm not saying that this is the case here, but I have known individuals who were very good at getting grants, sponsorship, money for things that they really had no ability to pull off.

One example is when I was working in marine education with Bamfield Marine Sciences. We also worked closely with the education folks at DFO and Vancouver aquarium. Then this "organization" popped up, purporting to be the "Most important marine education institute in Canada". They were applying for grants and sponsorship... and getting money. They had a spiffy looking professional webpage. They did a good job applying for grants with lots of fancy language and HUGE promises.

And they accomplished... nothing. In one case, a $25,000 grant ended up with the end product as a single page on their website that was copied from the Vancouver Aquarium site. Nobody could find out who was actually behind it. I suspected one or two people was all. I also suspected that the majority of grant moneys went to "salaries".

The sad part about this was they took grant money and sponsorship away from established world class programs that would have actually done something with the money.
 

Crayok

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Canada is also larger than the US,
The land mass of the US and Canada is roughly the same, the Mercator projection system for flat maps makes one think Canada is bigger (and Russia...) But your point without the landmass reference is still very valid we don't have very much population, probably why we have to be very good at what we do...

David
 

timbucktoo

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I have heard very little about this projects. And I cannot evaluate the potential properly. I need to study it in more detail. It looks like this program already works well in the USA. Possibly it can be introduced in other countries as well. So it is time to get more information about it. If you have resources to start with, please share with me.
Have you looked at the #1 post?
 

dr wogz

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Wemmtosa,

When you read thru this, it looks like a contest for university & college student to "apply their knowledge". The US have a few 'contests' like this for their schools & institutions (they are open to international teams, with Canada usually fielding a few)

But as you read thru it, you will also see that there is little in the way of information or even an update over the past two years. So, it is being thought of a a farce, a failed attempt, and a wasted opportunity by people who had grand ideas but little in the way of ensuring success. That's what we are sad & mad about. Post #76 seems to summarize our opinions..

Look at the population & land mass of Canada, and compare it to other countries: Canada is HUGE, but only has about 36 million people, So, distances between us is large. The intended launch area was also far from any large city; far enough away to make travel difficult and expensive for any 'college student'.. (Look up "Cold Lake Alberta".. It is a days drive from the closest city, assuming you can get to that city!)

The main cities where student teams would have the tech & know-how to compete are mostly on the east side of the country (Montreal & Toronto) as well as Vancouver on the west coast. Calgary maybe, and Edmonton would be a bit of a stretch for fielding such a team (closest city to the intended launch area) So, any team is easily looking at $500CAD plane tickets, plus all the other expenses to travel to the competition. That expense is better paid to travel to the US to fly in their competitions & stay in a populated US city..

And, most of Canada is below 0°C for most of the year!! Brrrrrr!!!

Any European country has a smaller (much smaller!!) land mass with about the same (or larger) population. So the chances are better for the competition being a success, with teams coming from other EU countries, and their costs being minimal..
 

dr wogz

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it seems we may have been a bit premature.. This just came across my FB feed.. (But then again, it looks like they only started posting to FB in march..)

I guess updating a website is soo 2016!
 

Dipstick

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Yes, I am curious about their flight plans...I signed up for email updates but haven't received anything.
 

High Desert Rocketry

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High Desert Rocketry

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Wemmtosa,

When you read thru this, it looks like a contest for university & college student to "apply their knowledge". The US have a few 'contests' like this for their schools & institutions (they are open to international teams, with Canada usually fielding a few)

But as you read thru it, you will also see that there is little in the way of information or even an update over the past two years. So, it is being thought of a a farce, a failed attempt, and a wasted opportunity by people who had grand ideas but little in the way of ensuring success. That's what we are sad & mad about. Post #76 seems to summarize our opinions..

Look at the population & land mass of Canada, and compare it to other countries: Canada is HUGE, but only has about 36 million people, So, distances between us is large. The intended launch area was also far from any large city; far enough away to make travel difficult and expensive for any 'college student'.. (Look up "Cold Lake Alberta".. It is a days drive from the closest city, assuming you can get to that city!)

The main cities where student teams would have the tech & know-how to compete are mostly on the east side of the country (Montreal & Toronto) as well as Vancouver on the west coast. Calgary maybe, and Edmonton would be a bit of a stretch for fielding such a team (closest city to the intended launch area) So, any team is easily looking at $500CAD plane tickets, plus all the other expenses to travel to the competition. That expense is better paid to travel to the US to fly in their competitions & stay in a populated US city..
We have a small test/launch facility ( www.friendsofamateurrocketry.org) in the Mojave Desert of California and yet we have student teams drive from the east coast (including from Canada) with their rockets to test and or launch at FAR, many miles from any populated city. I've mentored student teams for the NASA competition 2,000 miles away in Alabama that have driven there and we do a competition at the FAR site with teams that have driven from Florida and flown from Hawaii. Given the opportunity, students will find a way to get things done and Canadian students are no different.
 

High Desert Rocketry

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I'm not saying that this is the case here, but I have known individuals who were very good at getting grants, sponsorship, money for things that they really had no ability to pull off.

One example is when I was working in marine education with Bamfield Marine Sciences. We also worked closely with the education folks at DFO and Vancouver aquarium. Then this "organization" popped up, purporting to be the "Most important marine education institute in Canada". They were applying for grants and sponsorship... and getting money. They had a spiffy looking professional webpage. They did a good job applying for grants with lots of fancy language and HUGE promises.

And they accomplished... nothing. In one case, a $25,000 grant ended up with the end product as a single page on their website that was copied from the Vancouver Aquarium site. Nobody could find out who was actually behind it. I suspected one or two people was all. I also suspected that the majority of grant moneys went to "salaries".

The sad part about this was they took grant money and sponsorship away from established world class programs that would have actually done something with the money.
Just because one project 'failed' doesn't mean all projects will. I've VOLUNTEERED to mentor scores of student teams and at rocketry events for no pay and often not even expenses. While I can't say no one ever gets paid, the people I work with are volunteers like me.

From the FAQs menu tab on the website:

L C FAQs.png
 
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dr wogz

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hey H-D-R,

A few of us have signed up to volunteer.. But nada, zip, ziltch, no replies.. Nothing from them. You'd figure, a group that's is looking for volunteers would at least acknowledge the receipt of the e-mails! And maybe reach out to see the qualification of the individual. (I'm in Montreal, and it seems Montreal / Quebec has 5 teams going 5 Teams!! I can at least help translate for the French speaking teams!)

Their site has been stagnate for the better part of 2 years. Then, all of a sudden, on a FB group, they post what I posted (and you), and have seem to be active on FB since March. But again, nothing to anyone who'se signed up..

Rocketry in Canada is fraction of what it is in the US, and possibly in the EU.. and you'd think "experience" would be a benefit, since there are so few of us, with even L1 certs.. let alone certified to fly an L ..

And Dipstick is a CAR executive (our equivalent to NAR/TRA) so you'd figure he at least would be 'in the know'..

Sorry for sounding bitter, but we've reached out, they can at least say "thank you for reaching out"..
 

Dipstick

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hey H-D-R,

A few of us have signed up to volunteer.. But nada, zip, ziltch, no replies.. Nothing from them. You'd figure, a group that's is looking for volunteers would at least acknowledge the receipt of the e-mails! And maybe reach out to see the qualification of the individual. (I'm in Montreal, and it seems Montreal / Quebec has 5 teams going 5 Teams!! I can at least help translate for the French speaking teams!)

Their site has been stagnate for the better part of 2 years. Then, all of a sudden, on a FB group, they post what I posted (and you), and have seem to be active on FB since March. But again, nothing to anyone who'se signed up..

Rocketry in Canada is fraction of what it is in the US, and possibly in the EU.. and you'd think "experience" would be a benefit, since there are so few of us, with even L1 certs.. let alone certified to fly an L ..

And Dipstick is a CAR executive (our equivalent to NAR/TRA) so you'd figure he at least would be 'in the know'..

Sorry for sounding bitter, but we've reached out, they can at least say "thank you for reaching out"..
I'm not on the CAR/ACF executive, but I would echo the sentiment of no responses ever, no indication of where they will fly, and no idea how to provide help as a mentor under the Launch Canada organization. I do wish we could line up the event with CAR/ACF somehow, even as a support only, to capitalize on Canadians building and flying rockets...
 

dr wogz

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Sorry Bruce! I get you & David mixed up!

But you are both CAR, and both in Alberta (If I recall) and that's apparently where they will be holding said launch. (Cold Lake AFB if I also recall)

It also begs to ask if Launch Canada is aware of CAR or NAR or TRA.. or even 'model rocketry' as a hobby..
 

High Desert Rocketry

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For those that have reached out but no response...I contacted Adam about this.

From Adam:
"Hmm, thanks for letting me know! Wonder if we have a dead link on the site. I will sort this out ASAP. My sincere apologies to anyone who has been trying to reach us. While I get that fixed, could you pass on my apologies and let them know that they can email me directly at adam@launchcanada.org? "
 
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