The Implications of Mass Vaccination during a Pandemic w/Geert Vanden Bossche

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Winston

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This sucks. Makes perfect sense and is actually based in basic immunology.

"The only chance [for the virus] to survive is in fact to become more infectious, but it can only do this in a situation where it is put under an immune pressure that is suboptimal because then it can select mutations that enable it to become more infectious and what we basically see is that these highly infectious strains that are now circulating, they all converge more or less to the same type of mutations in the spike protein that are essentially responsible for higher infectiousness."

That's just the very basic point without all of the surrounding justification, but it's actually much more serious than that.

The Implications of Mass Vaccination during a Pandemic w/Geert Vanden Bossche
8 Mar 2021

Geert Vanden Bossche, PhD, DVM, is a vaccine research expert. He has a long list of companies and organizations he’s worked with on vaccine discovery and preclinical research, including GSK, Novartis, Solvay Biologicals, and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Dr Vanden Bossche also coordinated the Ebola vaccine program at GAVI (Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization).

He is board-certified in Virology and Microbiology, the author of over 30 publications, and inventor of a patent application for universal vaccines. He currently works as an independent vaccine research consultant.

He recently wrote an open letter appealing to the WHO (and all stakeholders involved) to immediately halt the mass vaccination campaign stating that there is compelling evidence indicating that the mass rollout will dramatically worsen the consequences of the pandemic .



This chicken vaccine makes its virus more dangerous
Jul 27, 2015


The deadliest strains of viruses often take care of themselves — they flare up and then die out. This is because they are so good at destroying cells and causing illness that they ultimately kill their host before they have time to spread.

But a chicken virus that represents one of the deadliest germs in history breaks from this conventional wisdom, thanks to an inadvertent effect from a vaccine. Chickens vaccinated against Marek’s disease rarely get sick. But the vaccine does not prevent them from spreading Marek’s to unvaccinated birds.

In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent. The study was published on Monday in the journal PLOS Biology.

This is the first time that this virus-boosting phenomenon, known as the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, has been observed experimentally.

The reason this is a problem for Marek’s disease is because the vaccine is “leaky.” A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.


Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens
27 Jul 2015

 

shockie

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My barber told me that taking the covid-19 shot is a mark of the beast,666. I asked him why he thought that and he said, " If you don't take the shot, you won't get a vaccine card. If you don't get a vaccine card, you will be discriminated against economically: you won't be able to fly anywhere, you won't be able to rent vehicles, you won't be allowed to goto large gatherings of people like concerts,etc. In other words, you will become a 2nd-class citizen with some of your rights and privileges stripped away simply because you refuse to be vaccinated. I don't know how accurate my barbers predixctions are but it sure kinda,sorta feels that is the direction in which we are heading. And don't say it can't happen here. It can.

 

Winston

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COVID-19 aside, my kids wouldn't be able to go to school without having the MMR and other immunizations. Nothing new, from my perspective.
In this case, the potential consequences of vaccinating those not at risk of bad outcomes may be very bad for everyone, not just them, as explained in the video and study linked above. ALL of the COVID vaccines are "leaky" vaccines as warned about in that study.
 
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Winston

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China Using Anal Swabs for COVID Testing
28 Jan 2021


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Avoid public restrooms, wash hands after contact with any publicly accessed surface, and keep hands away from face. As I posted here LONG ago and now can't find:

Fecal transmission may be responsible for coronavirus’s rapid spread
February 19, 2020


The novel coronavirus is shed in the feces of infected people, which may help explain why it’s spread so fast, according to Chinese researchers.

The finding of live virus particles in stool specimens indicates a fecal-oral route for coronavirus, which may be why it’s caused outbreaks on cruise ships with an intensity often seen with gastro-causing norovirus, which also spreads along that pathway. More than 600 Covid-19 infections were confirmed among passengers and crew aboard the Diamond Princess, the ship quarantined for two weeks in Yokohama, Japan.


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“This virus has many routes of transmission, which can partially explain” its rapid spread, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention said in a report Saturday:

Notes from the Field: Isolation of 2019-nCoV from a Stool Specimen of a Laboratory-Confirmed Case of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) - Feb 2020


Excerpt:

This finding has important public health significance. Suggestions to strengthen the control of fecal oral transmission of 2019-nCoV include strengthening health publicity and education; maintaining environmental health and personal hygiene; drinking boiled water, avoiding raw food consumption, and implementing separate meal systems in epidemic areas; frequently washing hands and disinfecting of surfaces of objects in households, toilets, public places, and transportation vehicles; and disinfecting the excreta and environment of patients in medical facilities to prevent water and food contamination from patients’ stool samples.

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Here's how it can get airborne, to then be breathed in or settling onto the floor to be tracked everywhere by everyone, even from the bathrooms of asymptomatic persons. Authorities should be calling for a policy of separate indoor shoes and outdoor shoes to be used by everyone to avoid tracking the virus onto their home floors and carpets to be brought to faces by contact with pets, very small children, or into lungs by vacuuming:

Potential for aerosolization of Clostridium difficile after flushing toilets: The role of toilet lids in reducing environmental contamination risk - Dec 2011


Background: Toilet facilities in healthcare settings vary widely, but patient toilets are commonly shared and do not have lids. When a toilet is flushed without the lid closed, aerosol production may lead to surface contamination within the toilet environment.

Findings: C. difficile was recoverable from air sampled at heights up to 25 cm above the toilet seat. The highest numbers of C. difficile were recovered from air sampled immediately following flushing, and then declined 8-fold after 60 min and a further 3-fold after 90 min. Surface contamination with C. difficile occurred within 90 min after flushing, demonstrating that relatively large droplets are released which then contaminate the immediate environment. The mean numbers of droplets emitted upon flushing by the lidless toilets in clinical areas were 15e47, depending on design. C. difficile aerosolization and surrounding environmental contamination occur when a lidless toilet is flushed.

Conclusion: Lidless conventional toilets increase the risk of C. difficile environmental contamination, and we suggest that their use is discouraged, particularly in settings where CDI is common.


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The potential spread of infection caused by aerosol contamination of surfaces after flushing a domestic toilet - 26 Jul 2004


Aims: To determine the level of aerosol formation and fallout within a toilet cubicle after flushing a toilet contaminated with indicator organisms at levels required to mimic pathogen shedding during infectious diarrhea.

Conclusions: Although a single flush reduced the level of micro-organisms in the toilet bowl water when contaminated at concentrations reflecting pathogen shedding, large numbers of micro-organisms persisted on the toilet bowl surface and in the bowl water which were disseminated into the air by further flushes.

Significance and Impact of the Study: Many individuals may be unaware of the risk of air-borne dissemination of microbes when flushing the toilet and the consequent surface contamination that may spread infection within the household, via direct surface-to-hand-to mouth contact. Some enteric viruses could persist in the air after toilet flushing and infection may be acquired after inhalation and swallowing.
 

Winston

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Let us seriously hope that this won't happen.
 

Winston

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I don't know how accurate my barbers predixctions are but it sure kinda,sorta feels that is the direction in which we are heading. And don't say it can't happen here. It can.
If what is described in this thread comes about from this massive, worldwide experiment, proof of vaccination will become very obviously pointless to everyone since vaccines cannot possibly keep up with mutations and "leaky" vaccines, which all COVID vaccines currently are, can bring about more deadly, resistant, and transmissible variants.
 

BABAR

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If what is described in this thread comes about from this massive, worldwide experiment, proof of vaccination will become very obviously pointless to everyone since vaccines cannot possibly keep up with mutations and "leaky" vaccines, which all COVID vaccines currently are, can bring about more deadly, resistant, and transmissible variants.
Many of these variants are popping up BEFORE a significant portion of the population is vaccinated. The Brazilian strains seems to be a viral response to natural ACQUIRED immunity, meaning it infects those who have already HAD the an original or other early strain of the virus. I don’t think enough people have been vaccinated to put much pressure on the virus to mutate specifically to outwit the virus. Thus at the point the Brazilian strain occurred, it is kind of like Apollo 13’s line, “We just lost the moon.” With variants that can reinfect people with previous variants, we will never get ahead of this thing. Some of the vaccines have been shown to be potentially LESS effective against new strains, but to my knowledge most if not ALL of the vaccines seem to be MORE effective than acquired immunity. This is because the designed vaccines provoke a stronger immune response than actual infections. It’s not what I expected, but it seems to be a good thing. Therefore while the antibody response of currently vaccinate individuals seems to be less (perhaps even 10 fold or more less) than to the original strains, they still have some protective effect against both symptomatic disease and particularly severe disease.

Israel will be the nation to watch, they seem to be one of the most likely countries to soon reach VACCINATED herd immunity. Interestingly, they are finding that people who have had documented Covid have a much higher (like 45 fold) antibody production response to the first shot of the two shot series compared to the response of people getting the shot who haven’t had Covid, with the first group getting no additional response to the second shot but still having more antibodies than the second group after THEIR second shot. Makes a good argument for giving people who have already HAD Covid only one shot of the two shot series, if follow up data confirms the above.
 

Winston

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Many of these variants are popping up BEFORE a significant portion of the population is vaccinated.
Yep, and Bossche points that out in the video above.

With variants that can reinfect people with previous variants, we will never get ahead of this thing. Some of the vaccines have been shown to be potentially LESS effective against new strains, but to my knowledge most if not ALL of the vaccines seem to be MORE effective than acquired immunity... Therefore while the antibody response of currently vaccinate individuals seems to be less (perhaps even 10 fold or more less) than to the original strains, they still have some protective effect against both symptomatic disease and particularly severe disease.
And that is what presents the danger - a "leaky" vaccine which all COVID vaccines are which allows asymptomatic spread by people who are infected and contagious. More contagious variants evolve, very quickly with coronaviruses, entirely naturally and become the dominant strains. The problem with that when combined with massive, worldwide "leaky" vaccine vaccination efforts is that you can end up with the leaky chicken vaccine problem described above.

To paraphrase a comment found at market-ticker:

Bossche makes two basics points:

1. The vaccines, by preventing morbidity while allowing infection and transmission, are turning vaccinated humans into Gain-of-Function viral mutation factories.

2. Those who receive vaccines are compromising their innate immune systems. Your natural antibodies (the secretory Igms) will be outcompeted by the vaccine-induced antigen-specific antibodies that are binding to the virus spike protein. This is a long-lived suppression action that may cause you to lose any protection you may have had to other SARS-CoV-2 variants or other coronaviruses. [Bossche's concern here is mainly in the case of inoculating children and young adults who aren't susceptible to bad COVID outcomes]

And a video I'm about to watch which supposedly voices some of the same concerns as Dr. Bossche:

Covid-19 Symposium 2021: Dr Byram Bridle, Viral Immunologist, University of Guelph
Feb 14, 2021


Israel will be the nation to watch, they seem to be one of the most likely countries to soon reach VACCINATED herd immunity.
Yep, but they are already having issues with more contagious natural variants imported from elsewhere. A third wave due to the "leaky" vaccine effect could break out at as a third wave at any time, anywhere, if it is going to happen at all, until the virus disappears... which it won't. The original SARS simply disappeared, but that wasn't allowed to become a pandemic:

The original SARS virus disappeared – here’s why coronavirus won’t do the same
June 5, 2020


Why did the original SARS epidemic come to end? Well, SARS-CoV-1 did not burn itself out. Rather, the outbreak was largely brought under control by simple public health measures. Testing people with symptoms (fever and respiratory problems), isolating and quarantining suspected cases, and restricting travel all had an effect.

Note the requirement for "symptoms" not masked in asymptomatic, but contagious individuals due to leaky vaccines.
 

Winston

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And as pointed out in the interview with Dr. Bossche, it's far too late to do anything now. "Leaky" mass vaccinations will not be stopped for all kinds of obvious reasons. What is or isn't going to happen has already been set in motion.
 

BABAR

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And as pointed out in the interview with Dr. Bossche, it's far too late to do anything now. "Leaky" mass vaccinations will not be stopped for all kinds of obvious reasons. What is or isn't going to happen has already been set in motion.
Some of these posts remind me of when we lost our cat (well, really our Son’s cat, which we “inherited” when he move away.). The cat’s name was “Chaos.” This is a true story.

my wife goes all around the neighborhood, calling “Chaos! Chaos! Chaaaaaooooos!”

all I could think of was, “Thank God we didn’t lose the other cat.”


his name was “Doom”.
 
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Winston

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Video linked above is pretty decent.

My critique of his first slide:

1. Skipping long term trials is definitely and seriously "cutting corners."
2. He apparently doesn't know that, according to CDC data, deaths after COVID vaccinations have been at least 58 times those from flu vaccinations.

Video links are time indexed:

He says what not to do with vaccination efforts is what we're doing, but from a different angle than Bossche. He doesn't cover everything in the slide, so you have to freeze the video and read it:


Probably exaggerated effectiveness, possibly hugely:


Autoimmune reaction due to a different vaccine as an example of long term risks:


He says don't vaccinate those unlikely to have bad outcomes to allow them to acquire the far more broad protection that comes from a naturally acquired immunity to the virus:


On masks. He doesn't mention the possibility of reduction of initial viral dose which might affect severity of outcome or, at least, reduce the speed of symptom onset allowing the possibility of productive intervention:


HERE'S where he gets into part of what Bossche is talking about:


His concluding comment: "The history books in the future will document this as the greatest mismanaged crisis of our time, unfortunately."
 
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Winston

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This thread is posted to enable readers to filter out the usual ***covering BS coming from on high if this bad outcome comes to pass.
 

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Couple questions:

1. Flu vaccines are Extremely leaky. Someone vaccinated against "strain x" has at best a 70% immunity, and it is well known that people vaccinated then challenges with the same strain can get infected and spread it; they just are asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic. How come the problems described here didn't happen decades ago after mass flu vaccination started?

2. Just because 1500+ people died in US after tens of millions of doses of vaccine have been injected doesn't mean that the vaccine killed those people. The monitoring and reporting for effects of any sort following Covid vaccinations are intentionally much stricter due to the new --yes, experimental-- nature of these vaccines. Actual causal relationship has been shown in few cases. How can we give credibility to folks with videos that are promoting obviously bogus info like this?
 

Winston

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How come the problems described here didn't happen decades ago after mass flu vaccination started?
Who said they didn't? They do. The COVID coronavirus is just more contagious, faster mutating, and deadlier.

Just because 1500+ people died in US after tens of millions of doses of vaccine have been injected doesn't mean that the vaccine killed those people. The monitoring and reporting for effects of any sort following Covid vaccinations are intentionally much stricter due to the new --yes, experimental-- nature of these vaccines. Actual causal relationship has been shown in few cases.
Both flu and COVID vaccinations have similar at risk age groups and, therefore, are targeted at those groups. When the COVID group has, according to the CDC's own data, at least 58 times more DEATHS just so far than deaths associated with flu vaccinations during all of last year, that's something significant and implies the deadlier nature of COVID considering the body's reaction to just the vaccine against it.

And I've looked at some of the reports of deaths in the VAERS system and these sure as hell aren't cases of "got the vaccine and passed away peacefully in their sleep." It's severe reactions. Extensive, expensive autopsies aren't done to prove what killed them, but that doesn't mean that what is reported isn't highly unusual... and from what I've read, they are.

How can we give credibility to folks with videos that are promoting obviously bogus info like this?
You mean two PhD vaccine experts versus your opinion?
 

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Who said they didn't? They do. The COVID coronavirus is just more contagious, faster mutating, and deadlier.

Both flu and COVID vaccinations have similar at risk age groups and, therefore, are targeted at those groups. When the COVID group has, according to the CDC's own data, at least 58 times more DEATHS just so far than deaths associated with flu vaccinations during all of last year, that's something significant and implies the deadlier nature of COVID considering the body's reaction to just the vaccine against it.

And I've looked at some of the reports of deaths in the VAERS system and these sure as hell aren't cases of "got the vaccine and passed away peacefully in their sleep." It's severe reactions. Extensive, expensive autopsies aren't done to prove what killed them, but that doesn't mean that what is reported isn't highly unusual... and from what I've read, they are.

You mean two PhD vaccine experts versus your opinion?
Based on what I am hearing both from the CDC and doctors I know and trust (and who treat COVID-19 patients and who oversee vaccine administration) most of the VAERS deaths are not caused by the vaccine. Far right outlets are ginning this up to suggest the vaccine is more dangerous than it really is. I wonder why they do this, as Trump himself helped accelerate vaccine manufacturing and in some cases development. Suggesting conspiracy reaps clicks, I guess.

I'm sure SOME folks have a strong reaction to the vaccine, particularly those with weak constitutions and various underlying issues, and I'm not saying the vaccine has not resulted in any deaths.

I'm not a PhD vaccine expert (though, I am a PhD microbiologist trained at understanding scientific reports and such), and what the VAERS data says is that those ~1500 people died some time after getting the shot, out of tens of millions of people who were vaccinated. In any group of 10s of millions of people, some people are going to die. I know you've looked at a sampling of data, but I know doctors who have reviewed that database and see nothing troubling, and I don't consider the CDC to be doing a whitewash either.
 

Winston

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Based on what I am hearing both from the CDC and doctors I know and trust (and who treat COVID-19 patients and who oversee vaccine administration) most of the VAERS deaths are not caused by the vaccine.
The primary points made by the two vaccine experts have nothing to do with the much higher than flu vaccination deaths so far from the administering of COVID vaccines. They didn't even mention that. That's just a point made by the author I quoted in my first post here.

On the "deaths not caused by COVID vaccine" idea, since, as I pointed out, the targeted age groups for vaccination priority are the same for the flu and COVID, how do you explain the huge difference between the death counts? More vaccinated old people suddenly dropping dead of "natural causes" from COVID vaccinations than they were with flu vaccines? Why?

Those higher than normal deaths to me implies the much deadlier nature of COVID when a vaccine reproducing just a single SARS-CoV-2 spike protein causes such a reaction.

...what the VAERS data says is that those ~1500 people died some time after getting the shot, out of tens of millions of people who were vaccinated.
You apparently aren't searching the VAERS data with the right desired products selected. The reports you can find from MDs are very detailed descriptions and they sure ain't normal.

In any group of 10s of millions of people, some people are going to die.
Of course and I'm not saying huge numbers of those who receive the vaccines are going to die. It's just that if there was a flu vaccine that produced 58 time more deaths than normal, there'd be some considerable concern. However, since this is a pandemic, this is ignored.

I know you've looked at a sampling of data, but I know doctors who have reviewed that database and see nothing troubling, and I don't consider the CDC to be doing a whitewash either.
Once again, since this is a pandemic, what would normally be considered to be unacceptable is ignored and it's not a whitewash when they do so.

Besides, this is a tangent from the possible, very deadly consequences described by those two vaccine experts due to asymptomatic spread from people vaccinated against just one SARS-CoV-2 protein.

Can you be an asymptomatic carrier of the flu, as with COVID-19?
7 Aug 2020


“With the flu, you probably have replication-competent virus a couple of days before you have symptoms. So, you can certainly infect people before you are symptomatic. But the percent of people who are able to do that is only perhaps in the 10-15% range, whereas with COVID it’s more like 40-50%," Ellis said.

"With COVID, there can be people who are completely asymptomatic who can infect other people. So, you can infect people with the flu before you’re symptomatic, but there really aren’t asymptomatic carriers of the flu," he added.


Also, viral shedding can be much longer for COVID-19.
 

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On "huge difference in death counts." I dispute that there is one.

First, we are scrutinizing anything that happens to a COVID-19 vaccinated person and that data is definitely going into VAERS. In a typical year, if someone has a flu vaccine and a week later dies, unless that person went into shock or something coming out of the vax clinic, I doubt that the ability of the system to capture the event and put it into VAERS was anywhere near as robust as it is today for COVID-19 vaccinations.

Also, look at the math:

There are ~330M people in the US, right? And over the time frame we're talking about (Dec 14 to March 8) there were an average of say 70,000 deaths per week in the US as part of the general population (including covid deaths). That's about 32 deaths per week per million people in the US. Most of these deaths are older folks, for sure.

There are as of March 9 (closest I could get) 61 million people in US who have had at least one dose of a vaccine for COVID-19, over the 12 weeks we've been vaccinating. It's not a linear rise, exactly, but for estimation it's close enough. So we could theoretically model this as 30.5M people having had a vaccine for 6 weeks.

32 deaths per week expected, times 30.5 million vaccinated people, times 6 weeks would give us 5856 deaths in the vaccinated population following our model. That's a lot more than the I think 1600 or so VAERS reported deaths over that span. And I'm willing to bet that well over 50% of deaths in vaccinated people are in VAERS no matter the cause (versus a certainly much lower percentage for flu). So how come only 1600 deaths, something like 1/3-1/4 the expected number just for routine deaths from causes other than the vaccine?

In part the nonlinearity of the data due to acceleration of vaccination means that the 5865 is a bit of an overestimation. Also, for the most part things wildly not vaccine caused probably aren't reported: gunshots, car accidents (though, some of these do make it in), and other stuff like obvious deaths due to other diseases. I think probably 50% or more is reasonable, but can't validate it.

The 32/million/week includes young people. The vaccinated population is much older with few young people and zero kids. So we would actually expect to see even MORE deaths, based on this bias.

The bottom line is that there would have to be a LOT more VAERS events than we are seeing before you'd hit some statistical probability the vaccine was killing people. Right now, it's a pretty low number. Something like 1 in 38,000 people who have received the vaccine have died from any cause that made it into VAERS over 12 weeks. Compare to almost 1/500 americans dying over the past year due to COVID-19.

Again, I don't think you can compare this to flu reporting. Covid is "under the microscope" in a way flu rarely is.

I'm 53 and have a BMI a bit north of 30 (otherwise excellent health except for this danged tennis elbow). I'll take my chances with the Vaccine. This Wednesday. 11 am. At the hospital down the road. Vax me!

Edit: I forgot one contributing cause to the lower than expected number of deaths shown in VAERS: very few vaccinated folks die of COVID-19.
 
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BABAR

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From above (I am having problems editing quotes on my IPad)

“Besides, this is a tangent from the possible, very deadly consequences described by those two vaccine experts due to asymptomatic spread from people vaccinated against just one SARS-CoV-2 protein.”

you lost me here. I don’t argue that vaccinated people can asymptomatically carry and spread the virus (already did that once and @cwbullet quickly corrected me). But someone infected with Covid is likely to spread Covid whether vaccinated or not. I have read some recent objective news reports that while vaccinated people can and do get (and can potentially spread) virus, it is at a REDUCED RATE compared with unvaccinated symptomatic patients. A big part of that may be coughing as well as duration of infection. They did find that the coughing patient in the waiting room is much more likely to spread virus to others than the patient being actively incubated or extubated, meaning risk to providers in the outpatient care setting may actually be HIGHER than in the ICU!

Be that as it may, it is unlikely that a vaccinated and later infected asymptomatic patient is likely to produce more spreadable virus than an unvaccinated symptomatic patient, UNLESS he or she decides to stop masking and social distancing BECAUSE of his or her vaccination (which I admit is possible and even likely, still I think we can expect the active viremia of a vaccinated asymptomatic patient will be less than a symptomatic unvaccinated patient.)
 

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From above (I am having problems editing quotes on my IPad)

“Besides, this is a tangent from the possible, very deadly consequences described by those two vaccine experts due to asymptomatic spread from people vaccinated against just one SARS-CoV-2 protein.”

you lost me here. I don’t argue that vaccinated people can asymptomatically carry and spread the virus (already did that once and @cwbullet quickly corrected me). But someone infected with Covid is likely to spread Covid whether vaccinated or not. I have read some recent objective news reports that while vaccinated people can and do get (and can potentially spread) virus, it is at a REDUCED RATE compared with unvaccinated symptomatic patients. A big part of that may be coughing as well as duration of infection. They did find that the coughing patient in the waiting room is much more likely to spread virus to others than the patient being actively incubated or extubated, meaning risk to providers in the outpatient care setting may actually be HIGHER than in the ICU!

Be that as it may, it is unlikely that a vaccinated and later infected asymptomatic patient is likely to produce more spreadable virus than an unvaccinated symptomatic patient, UNLESS he or she decides to stop masking and social distancing BECAUSE of his or her vaccination (which I admit is possible and even likely, still I think we can expect the active viremia of a vaccinated asymptomatic patient will be less than a symptomatic unvaccinated patient.)
I think you are correct. I think vaccinated folks will reduce the spread. I am not sure I can quantify that. A REDUCED RATE is as accurate as I can be at this stage.
 

Winston

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In this case, the potential consequences of vaccinating those not at risk of bad outcomes may be very bad for everyone, not just them, as explained in the video and study linked above. ALL of the COVID vaccines are "leaky" vaccines as warned about in that study.
COVID Variants vs. Coronavirus Vaccines (AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson) + Immunity


Very interesting info in the video: the more dangerous and contagious B.1.135 variant evolved in South Africa during the AstraZeneca vaccine trials there [the only vaccine trial conducted in South Africa] and that vaccine is almost completely ineffective against it which may be a confirmation of the hazard of vaccination with "leaky" vaccines. That possibility wasn't even touched upon in the video.

Unlike other vaccines which are around 50% effective against it, AstraZeneca is almost totally ineffective against B.1.135 at 9.6%, and I don't think that's a coincidence:

 
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