The End of Semroc?

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Yes, very good news indeed but I can't help thinking how all this mudslinging could have been avoided if Carl had use his "contacts" to reach the proper folks and discuss this amicably rather than running straight to the forums and starting this fire!

But then again, maybe he wouldn't have benefited from all of this outpouring of $upport...

I'm just saying.
 
Kevlar to replace those rubber bands they use for shock cords (while you're at it get them to drop that trifold shock cord mount. It's 2010 for God's sake).

It may be 2010 but the trifold shockcord mount imo is still the best way to attach the shockcord to a model rocket. I have had more recovery problems with kelvar shockcords than with anything else. Either the kevlar cuts through the side of the tube like razor wire or something gets snagged on the knot where the shockcord is tied to the kevlar. Oh, and Trifold mounts have to be made with glue not affected by heat and humidity. That means use yellow glue, not white.

Back on topic, Great news Carl =)
 
Carl i'm over whelmed for you and am very very happy to here that things will work out. you and your wife are wonderfull people. sandman i'm glad your all set too
 
Carl:

Great news! I'm going to have to place orders with both of you to support the agreement! I hope that after Estes sells out of SR71s we'll see you clone it.

rick
 
This is good news for SEMROC and rocketry in general.

Can't wait to see how all this shakes out.

-------


PS: love all the arm-chair quarterbacks....:rolleyes:

.
 
I'm going to have to place orders with both of you to support the agreement!
That's a wonderful idea.

I hope that Sheryl sees a significant bump in Semroc's sales this week and next. At least!

I've just now placed an order for:
KN-4 LAUNCH Model Rocket Kit
KV-14 Lil' Hercules Model Rocket Kit
KV-23 Triton Model Rocket Kit
KV-27 Swift-BG Model Rocket Kit
and another free Thunderbee!

Not a huge order, but it pretty nearly covers all of the remaining inexpensive Semroc kits that I really want.
 
Estes wants a bigger return on their rocket product line & wants their cut from anyone in market that they can scare.....
Some bigwig wants easy brownie points so they can get a bonus at the end of the year...

I wonder what the mark up is on their kits; now that they are made in China?




JD



Estes has made it clear over the years they have no interest in producing kits for most of their discontinued models. When they do, they re-release them (on an intermittent basis).

Semroc selling kits for OOP designs actually enhances the standing of Estes within the hobby. In essence, it is free advertising that draws people back into the hobby (and brings their kids along too).

Certainly it would not be unreasonable to ask Semroc to identify in the kit literature if a kit was based on an original Estes design (and I believe in most cases it already does).

It also might be a possible solution for Semroc to pay a nominal (VERY nominal) royalty fee for the use of OOP plans from Estes (or Centuri).

If Estes made 10 cents from the sale of an OOP kit from Semroc, that would be 10 cents they would not have made otherwise. (Like most monster corporations, they could demand a much higher cut but all that would do would guarantee they would get nothing. They could demand a $25.00 royalty on a $40 Mars Lander kit, and Semroc would just quit selling it.)

Since Semroc serves a market Estes has made clear has not been a priority in its merchandising strategy, it seems illogical they should try to impede their operations.

I was talking with some rocketry buddies a couple weeks ago how symbiotic and beneficial in the long term the present situation (or something close to it) is for all concerned -- Estes produces motors used by a huge percentage of LPR rocketeers and mass-distribution hobby-toy kits for the widespread general audience, while smaller boutique firms such as Semroc address the market of the craftsmanship hobbyists, the BARs, a market too small and specialized for Estes to concentrate large amounts of resources on.

Whenever somebody builds a Semroc kit of an OOP Estes/Centuri design, the odds are about 80% they are going to buy Estes engines to fly it. (BUT THAT COULD CHANGE.)

It should be a win-win situation for all concerned. Estes had regained a HUGE amount of cred among the rocketry community by participating in NARAM and making moves to address the hobbyist market, but they could fritter it all away in a huge hurry by playing the 800-pound gorilla against a company which has done a lot to keep Estes's heritage alive.

It would certainly be in everyone's best interest if an amicable solution can be hammered out fairly quickly.
 
Estes wants a bigger return on their rocket product line & wants their cut from anyone in market that they can scare.....
Of course. But one thing to remember here is that Estes was/is almost certainly in the legal "right" and the first action of many corporations in such a situation would have been to crush the tiny competitor (the original letter appeared to be a first step in doing exactly that). In the last several years the courts have generally tended to side with copyright holders in a number of high-profile cases (Napster, etc etc).

In a nirvana-world Estes would just release all their old plans into public domain, but as several posters brought up they need to make nominal efforts to protect their copyrights or risk losing having any control over them at all.

The fact that Rick Piester was able to come to a quick and reasonable agreement with Semroc as well as a couple of other small vendors is some indication they are willing to act with a modicum of good faith.

I suppose they may be getting a nominal "cut" but it is apparently not enough to seriously impede the business plans of the small vendors. As I pointed out in an earlier post, any "cut," no matter how nominal, they get on an OOP kit they have no current plans to add to their active roster represents found money.

Of course the quick and vocal reaction from the rocketry community (and Estes' realization they were probably marching into a PR disaster) may have played some part in the solution. In any case Estes should get some credit for acting in response to public opinion.
 
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I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

Too be fair, I don't know Carl, but I don't know anyone who works at Estes either. I have bought kits from both sources.

Making a public posting about a legal issue before everything has been sorted out could be interpreted in a number of different ways. I don't -think- Carl intentionally attempted to bring public pressure to bear on Estes, but a casual bystander who doesn't know either party could easily come to that or other conclusions.

I'm glad it appears to be all worked out, but that we even found out there was a problem kind of boggles my mind though.
 
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