# The DEATH of NARAM ???

### Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
To All,

I received this e-mail a few weeks ago . . . ( Sender ID redacted )

Dave Fitch

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: ez2cdave <ez2cdave@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 2, 2016 12:03 pm
Subject: 2017 Great lakes World Cup

Dave:

As you have probably notice, NARAM 59 has yet to be announced.

The reason is simple--the NARAM has been merged with the 2017 Great Lakes World Cup. That Cup has to be approved at the next meeting of the FAI-CIam meeting in Switzerland set for this month or November. Approval is all but certain at this point.

Logistics are already underway to fly the FAI officials to Chicago, drive them to the event, house them, and feed them. The fees associated with this effort are similar to those of hosting an internats in the USA. One estimate made a few years back put it at 1.3 million dollars. If you add inflation, the cost is 1.5 million dollars. Who is paying this sum is unclear--I do not think NAR has this on hand. CD will be John Langford

There was a complaint from CROC that they were not party to the rules making this year. I now know why.

With the Cup being made a part of NARAM, it would seem that the nationals are a sideshow and may cease to exist in current form. NAARAM would have to be shortened to 3-4 days just to accommodate the Cup if it is not assimilated entirely. The one reason to retain the NARAM is to allow non-FAI flyers some competition of non FAI events.

Please pass this on to the rest of the rocketry community.

Thanks,

XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.

#### KennB

##### I-95 Envoy
TRF Supporter
From the NAR site, NARAM-59. Not sure when it was posted, but Mark Twain would likely have a comment.

#### scsager

##### Slightly burned-out old guy
I'm not worried about NARAM 59, or the financial state of the NAR.

If you have been reading "The Electronic Rocketeer" (emailed to all NAR members every month) then you already know a little bit about the changes coming for NAR competition rocketry.

Speculation and rumors are not always helpful or productive

#### samb

I'm not worried about NARAM 59, or the financial state of the NAR.

If you have been reading "The Electronic Rocketeer" (emailed to all NAR members every month) then you already know a little bit about the changes coming for NAR competition rocketry.

Speculation and rumors are not always helpful or productive
Exactly right. Competition, at least as envision by Mr. Stine and the first generation NAR folks, has changed (IMHO). Change always brings some amount of pain and pleasure. Your mileage may vary ! :grin:

#### caveduck

##### semi old rocketeer
Here are some numbers for context:

Circa 1980, NAR membership was hovering right around 2000, with NARAM competitors ~150, around 7.5% of membership. There were dozens of A/B division contestants (non adults). There was neither high power nor sport flying at NARAM. It was already under discussion that competition was declining.

In the 2015-2016 era, NAR membership has crossed 6000, but LPR competitors at NARAM are down to ~100, or 1.6% of NAR membership. There are only 10-12 A/B division competitors now, with several being from the same handful of families. The apparent size of NARAM has stayed about the same, but now there are many sport/HPR fliers who are not competing. Thus, over the years the fraction of NAR members participating in competition has declined nearly 80%.

The FAI competition group in the US is catching up to the size of the NARAM group. At the NARAM-57 FAI flyoffs there were nearly 50 competitors, so the Internats group now represents about 1/3 of the total competition pool, not accounting for overlap.

#### Kallahan11

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Well I'm the secretary of SMASH/MMAR the clubs hosting NARAM 59 I can tell you that we were the only club to put in a bid (albeit after NARAM 58, when nobody else wanted too). we've known we were doing NARAM 59 for quite a while (before oct 2nd for sure) so I wouldn't trust your source, they had no real knowledge of what was going on.

#### tab28682

##### Well-Known Member
Another sensationalized "tempest in a teacup" about NARAM.

#### Pat_B

##### Well-Known Member
I sponsored the Great Lakes Cup in Illinois for 2-3 years and am certainly not involved in whatever is going on at NARAM. I find it unusual that someone would use my contest name for another event.

#### TheAviator

##### Well-Known Member
I sponsored the Great Lakes Cup in Illinois for 2-3 years and am certainly not involved in whatever is going on at NARAM. I find it unusual that someone would use my contest name for another event.
Another bit of misinformation. The cup is the Can-Am Cup.

#### Kallahan11

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Another bit of misinformation. The cup is the Can-Am Cup.
Yes the can-am cup is the first few days of naram.

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Help make Competition Rocketry great again !!!

#### Woody's Workshop

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Why are the over night accommodations in Grand Rapids, almost an hours drive away from the launch site?
Isn't there anything closer?

#### Gus

##### Well-Known Member
Why are the over night accommodations in Grand Rapids, almost an hours drive away from the launch site?
Isn't there anything closer?
Believe it or not, Muskegon is a summer destination spot, and hotel and motel prices double on June 15th through the end of summer. Last year we scheduled the CanAm Cup for the end of June and were shocked to discover the group rate at the Muskegon Holiday Inn was over $200 a night. Since it was a small group, we ended up staying at a Rodeway Inn about 20 miles south of the field for$105 a night, and that was after looking at virtually every hotel in the area.

For NARAM I know Bob A. looked at a ton of places and what is being used is the best he could find that had both adequate conference facilities and an affordable rate.

If you are not concerned with staying with everyone at the host hotel, you can almost certainly find something about the same price closer to the flying field.

Steve

#### tHoagland

##### Rocket Builder
TRF Supporter
My family used to visit the Muskegon area every summer. The beaches are beautiful, (although the water was always cold). If you like to camp, there are a couple of state parks in the area (Muskegon, JP Hoffmaster, and Grand Haven) which are all pretty nice. The campgrounds full early so, book soon....

#### Initiator001

##### Well-Known Member
Why are the over night accommodations in Grand Rapids, almost an hours drive away from the launch site?
Isn't there anything closer?
I think I can speak for many who attended NARAM-54 by saying that as long as the elevators work all week the drive is no big deal. :wink:

#### Kallahan11

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Why are the over night accommodations in Grand Rapids, almost an hours drive away from the launch site?
Isn't there anything closer?
It's because of the hotel pricing in summer in muskegon. End of July to early August is the best time to visit Lake Michigan (Which I would recommend doing for a day, though Holland state park will be closer and better)

#### Woody's Workshop

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Still, it's \$109 a night.
Seams high to me.
I'm only an hour away from Ludington.
Use to spend a lot of time at the parks there when I was younger.

Thanks,
James

#### Incongruent

##### Well-Known Member
Another sensationalized "tempest in a teacup" about NARAM.
When and where is the Tea Cup?