Tell me about staging

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AlSteel said:
...But later I'm guessing you can "mix it up" with high power boosters and lower power sustainer to achieve certain flight performance characteristics. Example: "A" booster with a "B" or "C" sustainer for a slow lift-off and low booster separation and then "BAM" it takes off for a dramatic ending.
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Depends on the rocket, but you might not have enough speed off the rod with a low impulse engine booster when trying to lift the additional weight of a higher impulse motor in the sustainer. I would stick to the recommended engines until you can do some detailed simulations for yourself to confirm not only altitudes, but also safe launch speed off the rod. Too slow would not be the kind of dramatic flight you are looking for.


PS - MULTI-ROC!
https://estesrockets.com/product/001329-multi-roc/
 
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AlSteel said:
I was literally just looking at this one. It looks like a good combo of simplicity, size, and build to use as my first multistage. Fly on smaller engines to keep from overflying the field.

So how do you select booster vs sustainer motor especially for a first flight? Using this one as an example I'm thinking I'm thinking I'd would just go with A's for both. But later I'm guessing you can "mix it up" with high power boosters and lower power sustainer to achieve certain flight performance characteristics. Example: "A" booster with a "B" or "C" sustainer for a slow lift-off and low booster separation and then "BAM" it takes off for a dramatic ending.
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If you have a Hobby Lobby near enough they have "running" 40% off coupon online, just show 'em your phone. Applies to anything other than sale items. Takes a bit of the sting out...
 
JimJarvis50 said:
My first staged rocket was the Centuri Black Widow. I still drool when I see it. The last flight was not so good, as the sustainer flew off at an angle. I found it core sampled up against a fence. Two-stagers are fun!

Jim
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Forgot to mention: Mr. Jim Jarvis responding on the low power forum is impressive to say the least.
 
As long as you don't bring your stage act into it..(insert snare/high hat here).
 
If you are concerned about altitude, just run a simulation.

In practice, booster stages rarely get lost, it is the upper stage that never gets returned. I remember a club sport launch in the late '60s, where somebody went around and collected all the "orphan" booster stages, and then presented a five stage rocket for flight (not recommended). You could also try the CHAD booster with streamer.

The best thing about staging BP motors, aside from the performance and contest issues, is that since the upper stage(s) don't need igniters/starters, you start to accumulate spares, instead of buying igniters/starters after misfires.
 
Oops, forgot to mention Hobby Lobby as a rule is never open on Sunday.
 
Wow! Lots of good info here. Thanks for ALL of the comments. I've been reading and absorbing all this ...and shopping. I would have replied earlier but I've been trying to bring the pieces together for a family vacation that seems to teeter upon utter-failure and great success on an hourly basis. Fortunately I'm leaning towards the latter finally.

I have taken all of these suggestions to heart and with careful deliberation I've settled on these two:

Dynastar Rip-Roar: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-3-Model-Rocket-Kits/Rip-Roar?cPath=1_88&
-or-
Custom Rockets Galaxy: https://www.customrocketcompany.com...ntroller=product&search_query=stage&results=8

Rip-Roar
Pros - Professional quality and build, impressive size so it , Larger engine capable (if I can find a larger field), flight heights are within my altitude "budget", flames on a rocket livery... of course!
Cons - Double the cost of the nearest competitor and that kinda stings.

Galaxy
Pros - Price (less than 1/2 of the Rip-Roar), acceptable quality, good size so I can spot it, flight heights are within my altitude "budget"
Cons - not a lot of info even from the manufacturer site.. maybe someone here knows?, "meh" color scheme (I'd have to work on that), limited to D engine sizes.

I REALLY looked hard at some of the suggestions and leaned heavily towards the Estes Mongoose and Multi-Roc but I wanted something that was little larger engine size for the launch power and a little tougher to construct.

So what say ye rocket gurus? I'm a mouse click away from my next evolutionary step in rocketry.
 
They both look like great options that would fit what you're looking for. One thing to consider is that the Rip-Roar comes with a 1/4" launch lug, so you'll need a larger pad to launch it. I couldn't see what the Galaxy comes with. I think that you could probably substitute a 3/16" launch lug, but that isn't what they recommend.
 
AlSteel said:
Wow! Lots of good info here. Thanks for ALL of the comments. I've been reading and absorbing all this ...and shopping. I would have replied earlier but I've been trying to bring the pieces together for a family vacation that seems to teeter upon utter-failure and great success on an hourly basis. Fortunately I'm leaning towards the latter finally.

I have taken all of these suggestions to heart and with careful deliberation I've settled on these two:

Dynastar Rip-Roar: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-3-Model-Rocket-Kits/Rip-Roar?cPath=1_88&
-or-
Custom Rockets Galaxy: https://www.customrocketcompany.com...ntroller=product&search_query=stage&results=8

Rip-Roar
Pros - Professional quality and build, impressive size so it , Larger engine capable (if I can find a larger field), flight heights are within my altitude "budget", flames on a rocket livery... of course!
Cons - Double the cost of the nearest competitor and that kinda stings.

Galaxy
Pros - Price (less than 1/2 of the Rip-Roar), acceptable quality, good size so I can spot it, flight heights are within my altitude "budget"
Cons - not a lot of info even from the manufacturer site.. maybe someone here knows?, "meh" color scheme (I'd have to work on that), limited to D engine sizes.

I REALLY looked hard at some of the suggestions and leaned heavily towards the Estes Mongoose and Multi-Roc but I wanted something that was little larger engine size for the launch power and a little tougher to construct.

So what say ye rocket gurus? I'm a mouse click away from my next evolutionary step in rocketry.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason you have decided to limit your choices to 24mm motor mount rockets rather than 18 mm?

Aztec looks like a good simple 18 mm bird

https://www.customrocketcompany.com...ntroller=product&search_query=stage&results=8

If you go with the Galaxy, you can buy or easily build a 24 to 18 mm adapter and fly the two stage with an A8-5 motor in sustainer (stay with D12-0 in booster.). You will still get a great flight and shorter walk. I am unsure if ejection charge on 18mm motor will blow the chute on Rip Roar because of larger volume/diameter.
 
BABAR said:
Is there a reason you have decided to limit your choices to 24mm motor mount rockets rather than 18 mm?

Aztec looks like a good simple 18 mm bird

https://www.customrocketcompany.com...ntroller=product&search_query=stage&results=8

If you go with the Galaxy, you can buy or easily build a 24 to 18 mm adapter and fly the two stage with an A8-5 motor in sustainer (stay with D12-0 in booster.). You will still get a great flight and shorter walk. I am unsure if ejection charge on 18mm motor will blow the chute on Rip Roar because of larger volume/diameter.
Click to expand...

Thanks Babar,

The choice was just personal preference, I just wanted something a little bigger. I've launched so many smaller birds that 18mm's have lost their appeal. Eventually I want to move up to MPR. I've have 2 birds that are 24mm and I find them FAR more enjoyable to launch. Don't get me wrong, I still like the 18mm powered rockets, it's that I just want to scale up.

I do have the Estes 24 - 18mm adapter to fly my bigger ones on C motors for days when the wind restricts my height by widening my recovery area.

I saw the Aztec and it looked like a good choice and the only thing that stopped me was the 18mm mount.
 
The Rip-Roar looks like fun, and I haven't seen one built around here before.

The Galaxy looks pretty vanilla. If you're looking for a 24mm two-stager don't overlook the Estes Extreme-12, it's very nice and quite a looker on the pad.
 
neil_w said:
The Rip-Roar looks like fun, and I haven't seen one built around here before.

The Galaxy looks pretty vanilla. If you're looking for a 24mm two-stager don't overlook the Estes Extreme-12, it's very nice and quite a looker on the pad.
Click to expand...
Got to see a Rip-Roar flown several times last weekend, its pretty big for an LPR flies pretty well.
 
My first 2 stage is a Custom Rockets Sam X. Very nice small kit, Looks to be OOP now. I have a few Custom Kits I like them. They tend to be a bit more generic in design (Their older stuff was pretty cool). I never had luck with their Tri-star design (Now Galaxy Patrol / Rescue / Taxi) Plus their prices are pretty cheep

I haven't flown my Frick'n'Frack yet but it was a real fun build
 
If you're interested in getting into mid-power, it may be worth springing for the slightly more expensive kit, and getting a nice mid-power launch pad to go with it. Mid power will cost a bit more than LPR, so it'll ease you into the price shock :).
 
neil_w said:
The Rip-Roar looks like fun, and I haven't seen one built around here before.

The Galaxy looks pretty vanilla. If you're looking for a 24mm two-stager don't overlook the Estes Extreme-12, it's very nice and quite a looker on the pad.
Click to expand...

Woah! Totally missed that one, now I have three choices... decisions, decisions!

mbeels said:
If you're interested in getting into mid-power, it may be worth springing for the slightly more expensive kit, and getting a nice mid-power launch pad to go with it. Mid power will cost a bit more than LPR, so it'll ease you into the price shock :).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's was my thought as well. Plus the Rip-Roar could be flown as a stubby single stage on a MPR motor and still keep it down to where I could fly in my park... I think I'm beginning to make up my mind.
 
This thread inspired me to try a staged rocket (again) last time I tried one of those mini commanches and as is with most 13mm rockets it was gone in an instant :

Anyhow I ordered a Loadstar, got the .roc file for it and have been fooling around in Open Rock with it. C6 B6 gets me around 500-600 feet :)
 
Never even knew the Galaxy existed 'till you posted it. I vote for that one..
 
Tom said:
Anyhow I ordered a Loadstar, got the .roc file for it and have been fooling around in Open Rock with it. C6 B6 gets me around 500-600 feet :)
Click to expand...

Go with an A8_5 in sustainer for first three flights, unless you have a big field.

Estes LoadStar looks like 2/3 of the OOP three stage Estes FarSide. Kinda begs for a second scratch booster! Looks like you could go 24mm D12-0 with the lowest booster. Would need some big fins.
 
AlSteel said:
I've been doing model rocketry on and off since I was kid, but one thing that always confounded me was staging. I never thought I fully took a seat at the rocketry adult table until I had launched (and recovered) a multi-stage rocket. I've done some research, but I'm still a little leery to create a staged rocket because of my fear of it a) failing spectacularly in flight b) heading off into the heavens, never to be seen again c) completely losing the booster.
Click to expand...
Well, you're not supposed to sit at the adult table until you've done both a and b anyway. :D And c rarely happens.

What no one has said is the reason c rarely happens, i.e. why staging occurs so low. Most of the ascent of a single stager or sustainer happens during the coast phase. There is no coast phase for the booster; it separates and starts tumbling as soon as it burns out so it doesn't have time to get up very far.

Since you have some build experience and seem to want a little challenge in the build along with simplicity in the staging, I suggest you look the Estes Solar Flare. It only stages from 18 mm to 13 mm (unless you change the sustainer motor mount) but in my opinion it's just so darn cool looking that it's worth considering anyway. The stage break is in the center of the ring tail.

JimJarvis50 said:
My first staged rocket was the Centuri Black Widow. I still drool when I see it.
Click to expand...
The Black Widow looks nice, but I love that Micro-Probe's interdigitated fins. Now I want to clone that one! I really like the Super Nova for the same reason.
 

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