TeleGPS

[ColumbiaNX01]

Hey guys I am in the market for a small compact GPS. I need some info for the TeleGPS. What I like about it is that it is super tiny and can go anywhere. I have been to the website. What do I need to get started. My goal would be to not to have to use a computer in the field. I like the idea of the bluetooth. I have downloaded the app onto my android device, seems user friendly. Will that work in an area where cell service is limited to non existent?

Andrew

 

[tim cubbedge]

What you need with TeleGPS to work with bluetooth is the TeleBT. You'll also need to buy an antenna for the TeleBT as it doesn't come with one. No cell service required. The TeleGPS does not come with a battery either. I would buy the 850mA Lipo that they sell on their website. TeleGPS also requires at a minimm a Technicians license since it transmits on the 430 MHz ham band.
Also need a tablet or phone that uses Andriod (which I guess you already have).

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

What you need with TeleGPS to work with bluetooth is the TeleBT. You'll also need to buy an antenna for the TeleBT as it doesn't come with one. No cell service required. The TeleGPS does not come with a battery either. I would buy the 850mA Lipo that they sell on their website. TeleGPS also requires at a minimm a Technicians license since it transmits on the 430 MHz ham band.
Also need a tablet or phone that uses Andriod (which I guess you already have).

How do I go about getting technicians license?

 

[Danh]

It's easy just do these 2 things...

1. Study- I used this website when I did mine:

https://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com


2. Take the test :

https://www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-radio-license-exam-session

 

[mccordmw]

How do I go about getting technicians license?

You will need to apply for the license and pass a 35 question exam. This link will tell you how to go about finding a local class and studying for the exam.

https://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license

I'm using the Eggfinder GPS. It transmits over 900 mHz, so no license is needed. Range with the stick antenna is supposed to be about 10,000'. I put on an RPSMA antenna which is supposed to boost the range up to 20,000'. I haven't tested ranges beyond about 5,000', but it worked beautifully then.

 

[mpitfield]

I use the TeleBT/3 Element Yagi/Android combo for "on the go" tracking and the TeleDongle/Mac currently with a 3 element Yagi (moving to a omni pole mount antenna) as base station at my prep-table. I prefer the apps (TeleGPS and AltosUI) for the Mac better than the Android app, especially the synthesized voice that calls things out. I have tracked rockets to 17,000 vertically and 3.46 miles horizontally, well to about 1000 AGL until it dipped below a hill.

 

[ksaves2]

The Tele-BT is nice and it works well with the AltosDroid app but............... You don't have to use that receive solution if you don't want to. The Tele-BT sends a coded digital signal AND and an APRS packet so if a Ham person who uses Beeline GPS
tracker "could" use their standard APRS receive station for tracking purposes. They wouldn't be able to use AltosDroid but they would still be able to track. An example would be a Kenwood D72A interfaced with a single cable to a Garmin 60Cs or 60CsX.
That would be a complete handheld, navigation solution for APRS. If one doesn't have APRS equipment, it's more cost effective to purchase a Tele-BT. A Yagi antenna wouldn't be absolutely necessary but if expecting the rocket to land a few miles away,
it could prove helpful at extending the reception distance and the ground footprint of the tracker.

I have my Tele-BT velcroed to a 7 element Arrow antenna. I can remove it and use the electronic attenuator on the beam for RDF tracking.

I purchased the combination because I wanted a GPS tracker for a 38mm minimum diameter project in the nosecone. Kurt

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

The Tele-BT is nice and it works well with the AltosDroid app but............... You don't have to use that receive solution if you don't want to. The Tele-BT sends a coded digital signal AND and an APRS packet so if a Ham person who uses Beeline GPS
tracker "could" use their standard APRS receive station for tracking purposes. They wouldn't be able to use AltosDroid but they would still be able to track. An example would be a Kenwood D72A interfaced with a single cable to a Garmin 60Cs or 60CsX.
That would be a complete handheld, navigation solution for APRS. If one doesn't have APRS equipment, it's more cost effective to purchase a Tele-BT. A Yagi antenna wouldn't be absolutely necessary but if expecting the rocket to land a few miles away,
it could prove helpful at extending the reception distance and the ground footprint of the tracker.

I have my Tele-BT velcroed to a 7 element Arrow antenna. I can remove it and use the electronic attenuator on the beam for RDF tracking.

I purchased the combination because I wanted a GPS tracker for a 38mm minimum diameter project in the nosecone. Kurt

I have the BRB900 handheld with LCD screen, but with the questionable experience I have had with it; never lost a rocket but harder then it sounds. That is interesting. What I like about the TeleGps with bluetooth it will take you straight to the rocket.

 

[dhkaiser]

I have the BRB900 handheld with LCD screen, but with the questionable experience I have had with it; never lost a rocket but harder then it sounds. That is interesting. What I like about the TeleGps with bluetooth it will take you straight to the rocket.

As a BRB900 owner I am interested in your experiences, please explain.

 

[blackjack2564]

What do I need to get started. . I have downloaded the app onto my android device, seems user friendly. Will that work in an area where cell service is limited to non existent?

Andrew

I have one. My thread:https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...een-1-yr-onto-1-2-scale&p=1609115#post1609115

shows how I mounted it in the tip of a 3in NC. They work great. The viewer software stores all the maps, so you do not need cell service for it to function. We do same...use a cell phone to follow rocket. App is free "rocket locater"? I think is it. Your cell phone GPS functions regardless of cell towers, it's getting locations direct from satellites. Simply open blue tooth devices on your phone & enable reception for the base. Simple.

You need the TeleGps , battery [does not come with one] TeleBT [base] and an antenna. [does not come with one]
The 1/2 wave whip wire works pretty good on base...bought it from Flea bay for 3.00 or the Arrow 3 element Yagi [70.00?]if you want fancy directional.

Both the base & GPS unit have built in charger. Just hook up to computer/car/ etc. with USB to mini plug cable.....to both units to recharge.

Base has built in battery, so no need for one.

It told me where the 28,000 ft flight landed perfectly.

Very user friendly once you practice with it for awhile...BEFORE flying it!

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

As a BRB900 owner I am interested in your experiences, please explain.

In September 2016 I launched a rocket around 15,000 ft. BRB900 never lost connection. Gave the coordinates. I typed them into a garmin. It took me to the location that said to go on BRB900. Rocket was not there. All was lost. The only reason I found it was a driver passed by as it landed in a tree. The rocket was actually 100 yards away from the location on the BRB900. Seems the coordiates are off.

At the same launch I launched a rocket to 8,000 feet. Rocket landed in a pasture of short grass. I used BRB900. It was off by over 150 feet. I found rocket only because I could see it on the ground.

At Airfest 2016 I launch a rocket to 16,000 feet. BRB900 got me within 125 feet. I only found rocket because it was in a field of short grass. I only found it because grass was short.

Bottom line it gets me into the area of the rocket, but if it was in tall grass or something I would not find it. I drives me crazy. In the end, I found them but not without its headaches. This is why I want to invest in a GPS that is more accurate. I like the GPS that can take you right to it rather than having to convert and type in coordinated in a handheld.

 

[blackjack2564]

You still need an Rf tracker to find stuff in tall grass etc.

GPS radio's broadcast to your base every few seconds. So you may only get the last position when rocket is several hundred feet above ground, or if it goes down behind hill. Continued drift can easily take rocket few hundred feet from last location.

The last known position is rarely "spot on" . GPS will get you damn close, but I always have a RF in there for the last 50-200 ft.

However all that being said...if your rocket is not sitting in a depression, you should again pick up signal when you get close enough for radio reception. [in theory, this does not always work & why I will always have a Marshall in there for close up work]

 

[mpitfield]

In September 2016 I launched a rocket around 15,000 ft. BRB900 never lost connection. Gave the coordinates. I typed them into a garmin. It took me to the location that said to go on BRB900. Rocket was not there. All was lost. The only reason I found it was a driver passed by as it landed in a tree. The rocket was actually 100 yards away from the location on the BRB900. Seems the coordiates are off.

At the same launch I launched a rocket to 8,000 feet. Rocket landed in a pasture of short grass. I used BRB900. It was off by over 150 feet. I found rocket only because I could see it on the ground.

At Airfest 2016 I launch a rocket to 16,000 feet. BRB900 got me within 125 feet. I only found rocket because it was in a field of short grass. I only found it because grass was short.

Bottom line it gets me into the area of the rocket, but if it was in tall grass or something I would not find it. I drives me crazy. In the end, I found them but not without its headaches. This is why I want to invest in a GPS that is more accurate. I like the GPS that can take you right to it rather than having to convert and type in coordinated in a handheld.

Even with the TeleGPS I still use a ComSpec AT-2B transmitter as a backup. The TeleGPS has never let me down however I have questioned the coordinates, after converting them from one form of measurement to another (drives me nuts) then used the Comspec handheld just to ping it off the AT-2B as verification, as well as a quick directional ping when retrieving.

The longest recovery was 3.46 miles and that was sitting in the middle of a field full of cord that was at least 9 feet. I met the farmer showed him the map on the TeleDongle/Yagi/Mac combo running AltosUI (I did not have the TeleBT at that time) he thought it was pretty cool and said follow me and I followed him through an access road that he had cut right down the middle of his field. We stopped I left the TeleDongle/Yagi/Mac combo in the car, grabbed the ComSpec radio and pinged the AT-2B for directional verification, then I followed him into the field (all I could hear was chi chi chi chi and see Malachai in my head) and we literally walked right to it in 2 minuets.

GPS is a pretty cool technology. I am very confident that had I only had traditional RF directional tracking that it would have taken me quite a bit more effort and time to triangulate and tack it down.

 

[OverTheTop]

There is bound to be a radio club in your area somewhere that runs courses for the license. That's how I got mine. I ended up going for "advanced" rather than the lower levels, but I am a communications engineer, so I had the inside track! You will be studying with similarly minded people, which can help you learn a lot. Maybe you like the online stuff (I used it to figure out where the holes were in my knowledge) and just do it that way. See what works for you.

I use the TeleMega. Love it!!! Seems expensive but the software is just so professional and works fantastically. It is a good feeling walking up to a 54mm bird that has gone to 21500' and landed completely out of sight over three mile away .

 

[ksaves2]

You still need an Rf tracker to find stuff in tall grass etc.

GPS radio's broadcast to your base every few seconds. So you may only get the last position when rocket is several hundred feet above ground, or if it goes down behind hill. Continued drift can easily take rocket few hundred feet from last location.

The last known position is rarely "spot on" . GPS will get you damn close, but I always have a RF in there for the last 50-200 ft.

However all that being said...if your rocket is not sitting in a depression, you should again pick up signal when you get close enough for radio reception. [in theory, this does not always work & why I will always have a Marshall in there for close up work]

If one has room to put a beeper or "screamer" on the harness, your ears can lead you the last 15 to 30 feet in grass or tall corn. Kurt

 

[keithp]

Hey guys I am in the market for a small compact GPS. I need some info for the TeleGPS. What I like about it is that it is super tiny and can go anywhere. I have been to the website. What do I need to get started. My goal would be to not to have to use a computer in the field. I like the idea of the bluetooth. I have downloaded the app onto my android device, seems user friendly. Will that work in an area where cell service is limited to non existent?

Andrew

I figured I'd chime in even though other forum members have answered your questions quite well. TeleGPS sends three different signals, allowing you to mix and match tracking techniques:

* Digital telemetry. Received by TeleBT or TeleDongle, this can be sent once per second to show the position of the rocket on a map.

* APRS. This can be received by an amateur radio with APRS support; I use the Yaesu FT-1D and that provides direction and distance information to the rocket.

* RDF. TeleGPS sends an audio tone that any amateur radio can receive that you can use for radio direction finding. This can be received much further away than the full GPS information, which is useful after the rocket has landed as both APRS and the digital telemetry are only good for 1km or so on the ground.

All of the ground station software will let you pre-load maps for your launch area. And, if you don't have mapping information, you will still get distance and bearing information.

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

I figured I'd chime in even though other forum members have answered your questions quite well. TeleGPS sends three different signals, allowing you to mix and match tracking techniques:

* Digital telemetry. Received by TeleBT or TeleDongle, this can be sent once per second to show the position of the rocket on a map.

* APRS. This can be received by an amateur radio with APRS support; I use the Yaesu FT-1D and that provides direction and distance information to the rocket.

* RDF. TeleGPS sends an audio tone that any amateur radio can receive that you can use for radio direction finding. This can be received much further away than the full GPS information, which is useful after the rocket has landed as both APRS and the digital telemetry are only good for 1km or so on the ground.

All of the ground station software will let you pre-load maps for your launch area. And, if you don't have mapping information, you will still get distance and bearing information.

Cool. I believe I want to go the Digital Telemetry route. Using the TeleBT along with the Arrow II Antenna Hand Held 440-3 and the android app. I first have to get a technicians ham license.

Using the supplied whip antenna on the transmitter and the arrow antenna on the receiver what is the line of sight? How high could you go and still get a signal. Where I fly is in Oklahoma where its relatively flat and in Argonia.

Thanks

 

[keithp]

Using the supplied whip antenna on the transmitter and the arrow antenna on the receiver what is the line of sight? How high could you go and still get a signal.

While in the air, probably at least 10 miles. On the ground, less than 1/2 a mile. It's hard to be precise as so much depends on the precise installation. We recommend ground testing; the digital receiver provides a precise signal strength measure which allows you to extrapolate from a few samples to estimate the maximum range. TeleBT can reliably capture telemetry down to about -115dBm. It takes about 6dB to double the range. So, if you measure an RSSI of -90dBm at 1/2 mile, you should expect to be able to double the range 4 times (-96, -102, -108, -114), for a range of 8 miles. These are made-up numbers to give you a feeling of how to do the computation though.

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

While in the air, probably at least 10 miles. On the ground, less than 1/2 a mile. It's hard to be precise as so much depends on the precise installation. We recommend ground testing; the digital receiver provides a precise signal strength measure which allows you to extrapolate from a few samples to estimate the maximum range. TeleBT can reliably capture telemetry down to about -115dBm. It takes about 6dB to double the range. So, if you measure an RSSI of -90dBm at 1/2 mile, you should expect to be able to double the range 4 times (-96, -102, -108, -114), for a range of 8 miles. These are made-up numbers to give you a feeling of how to do the computation though.

ok thanks. even though lets say 1/2 mile. But the closer u get to that 1/2 mile then the signal changes and you may get new coordinates. So in reality as u get closer its gets more and more accurate. So if the rocket landed 3 miles away u will get last know coordinates but as u get closer it changes? in the end, you will find the rocket. Am I right?

 

[ChrisAttebery]

That's right. The last packet you receive before it hits the ground is usually within a couple hundred feet. I bring the antenna, TeleBT and tablet with me and as you get close to the rocket you'll start to receive packets again.

I've flown mine to 24,626 feet. It landed 3+ miles away. The last packet I received was about 200' AGL. I drove straight towards the last coordinate. Right before I got to the rocket I started receiving packets again with the updated location. The wind was blowing 15-20mph on the ground so it probably got dragged.

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

That's right. The last packet you receive before it hits the ground is usually within a couple hundred feet. I bring the antenna, TeleBT and tablet with me and as you get close to the rocket you'll start to receive packets again.

I've flown mine to 24,626 feet. It landed 3+ miles away. The last packet I received was about 200' AGL. I drove straight towards the last coordinate. Right before I got to the rocket I started receiving packets again with the updated location. The wind was blowing 15-20mph on the ground so it probably got dragged.

Do you use the TeleBT? Do you use the Altus Metrum App for your phone? Does it give you turn by turn direction? Does it actually talk to you as it is going up and coming down similar to Kate?

 

[OverTheTop]

Do you use the TeleBT? Do you use the Altus Metrum App for your phone? Does it give you turn by turn direction? Does it actually talk to you as it is going up and coming down similar to Kate?

Yes I do.
Yes I do.
Don't know.
Yes it does (not much to say on the way up). Check this video for an example:
[video]https://youtu.be/FYnjssmsjd0[/video]

 

[ChrisAttebery]

I have the Telemetrum V2 which uses the same GPS and radio, right Keith? I use the app on a Android tablet. It doesn't give you turn by turn. It does give you a compass direction and a distance to the rocket. It does talk to you but isn't as detailed as Kate.

 

[ChrisAttebery]

From the manual:

"While the Flight tab is displayed, the voice announcements will include current speed, height, elevation
and bearing information."

"While the Recover tab is displayed, the voice announcements will include distance along with either
bearing or direction, depending on whether you are moving."

"The Map tab provides the same voice announcements as the Recover tab."

FWIR It also tells you what flight mode it's in: Pad, Boost, Fast, Coast, Main, Drogue.

 

[keithp]

Do you use the TeleBT? Do you use the Altus Metrum App for your phone? Does it give you turn by turn direction? Does it actually talk to you as it is going up and coming down similar to Kate?

It doesn't provide turn-by-turn directions; there aren't usually that many roads around a rocket range anyways, and turn-by-turn directions would require a network connection. You do get a map, either satellite images or just roads and other key features, so you can see where you are and where the rocket is to figure out a reasonable driving route. I use that in Argonia to pick where to drive to for the shortest walk through the fields. And, yes, lots of information is provided by the android voice in flight, including range elevation and bearing so you can point the antenna in the right direction and try to find the rocket by eye. There's also a pile of information on the Android screen.

 

[keithp]

I have the Telemetrum V2 which uses the same GPS and radio, right Keith? I use the app on a Android tablet. It doesn't give you turn by turn. It does give you a compass direction and a distance to the rocket. It does talk to you but isn't as detailed as Kate.

TeleMetrum v2 uses a similar, but slightly more powerful, radio with the same GPS chip. Of course, TeleMetrum is a flight computer, so it provides rocket flight information, while TeleGPS is a tracker and provides just tracking information.

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

This great information, Thanks.

Andrew

 

[ColumbiaNX01]

I am resurrecting this thread. This thread was originally for the TeleGPS. I am looking at the TeleMetrum V2 now. I am looking at the because it is an all in one altimeter and gps so it will help me save on space. Does the telemetrum v2 still use the same TeleBT and the same receiver antenna as the telegps does?

 

[ksaves2]

Yes it does. I believe one gets real time altitude tracking with it if one uses the TeleBt. I think it too also will provide an APRS position packet so one can do APRS tracking without the other telemetry
provide by the Altus Metrum protocol. Specifically, one would see the GPS altitude and not the Baro altitude which can be provided by the Tele-BT and Altus or Altus Droid software. With APRS tracking one can recover the rocket and download manually the on device information. In fact, one should always see what's in the memory as some of the Rf packets might be missed for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I think to get the greatest utility out of the Altus Metrum products a Tele-BT is a very fine investment. The only exception here would be the Tele-GPS. If one already has a ground receiving
station to track the 70cm Beeline GPS products (eg. a Kenwood D72A, Kenwood D74A, Yaesu VX8GR, FT1DR or another arrangement like a Mobilinkd TNC bonded to any reliable Ham handi-talkie) They can use their current station to track the Tele-GPS right out of the box. They wouldn't need the Tele-BT except that it is a very cost effective means at $155.00 to track Altus Metrum devices.

The Tele-GPS is a very compact GPS tracker smaller than a Beeline GPS. If one desires a GPS tracker in a small footprint, it's the one to use. To go smaller with a GPS tracker would take something like
the Marshall Falconry GPS tracker: https://marshallradio.com/north-american-falconry-products/gps-systems Again, there is a very sizable investment there and one would have to use an iPhone or Apple tablet with it
and factor that into the cost. No Android device availability.

The Tele-BT uses whatever 70cm band antenna (420mhz to 450Mhz) one wants to attach to it. I have a 7 element Arrow antenna: https://www.arrowantennas.com/arrowii/440-7ii.html I simply
velcro the Tele-BT to. On the other side of the boom I have an electronic attenuator: https://www.west.net/~marvin/k0ov.htm mounted in a plastic box with 9V battery I can plug in and use it for RDF tracking as desired. I prefer the electronic attenuator as I can "dial-in" the amount of attenuation I need to give a sharp cut-off on the power level meter on the handi-talkie. One should exercise caution here as the cheap Chinese dual band handi-talkies available "DO NOT" have a true power level meter. It's either "all on" with a signal present or "all off" with no signal. There is no in-between. Kurt

 

[OverTheTop]

I am resurrecting this thread. This thread was originally for the TeleGPS. I am looking at the TeleMetrum V2 now.

Have you considered the TeleMega? It gives you vertical angle detection (probably other features too) if you want to do a two-stage build. Not sure what the price difference is these days. I have two.

I also feed the power supplies from my Ravens into the additional channels on the TeleMega to enable me to check them up to just before flight as well.