Switchable rail buttons sizes

[Kevin Kittinger]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DigBaddy]

Depending on what you are drilling into to hold the buttons on, is it feasible to have a wide/short hole for the screw/bolt holding the 1515 button, but then use a long #8 screw going deeper, past that shorter/wider hole for the 1010 button? If you're not going into something like a wood centering ring, you could weld say a 1/4" nut to a steel spacer, then weld a #8 nut on the other end of the spacer. Your 1/4" bolt could then just engage with the outer nut, then a longer #8 bolt would make it to the #8 nut. I should draw a picture...

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

BigDaddy - I follow your idea and it would work. I thought that I had heard of another member that used a single post design that could support both buttons. If I get no replies then I will do your approach.

 

[DigBaddy]

BigDaddy - I follow your idea and it would work. I thought that I had heard of another member that used a single post design that could support both buttons. If I get no replies then I will do your approach.

I hope someone replies with a single-post solution Would be good to know it exists!

 

[mtnmanak]

I use 8-32 PEM nuts or Rotaloc nuts on rockets that I want to switch between 1010 and 1515.

#8 screws work in the majority of 1515 buttons with no issues.

Some 1010 buttons will work with #8 screws, like the Delrin ones from Binder Design:

Rail Button Supply House

Rail Button Supply House

binderdesign.com

And all the 1010 airfoils I have work with #8 screws:

Onebadhawk Airfoiled Rail Guides

In keeping with our philosophy of nothing but the best,, We are proud that we now have the best Airfoiled Rail Guides High Power rocketry has ever seen... We have just developed these guides.....

onebadhawk.com

Standard Airfoiled Rail Buttons (fits 1 Rail - 1010)

Rail buttons are used in place of launch lugs to guide the rocket on the pad until the rocket reaches sufficient speed where the fins will guide the rocket. They are used on BIG rockets, where additional support is needed to prevent the rocket from swaying in the wind.

www.apogeerockets.com

Airfoil Rail Button (pair, 2 sizes)

AIRFOIL - SHAPED RAIL BUTTONS FOR 1010 AND 1515 RAILS! Not just another round button..... these are precision CNC machined from black Delrin to a true NACA airfoil shape. Strong and durable, approved for all rail launches! Our rail buttons won't damage the 1010 and 1515 rail during the...

giantleaprocketry.com

For smaller buttons, it also helps to have some "undercut" flat head screws, like these from McMaster. They can often be used in 1010 buttons that are just a tad too small for #8 regular cut flat head screws:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

For bigger rockets, I install 1/4"-20 nuts. They can easily accommodate 1515 airfoils and all my Unistrut buttons.

 

[jmasterj]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

The buttons I've got gotten from rail-buttons.com use #8 for 1010 and #10 for 1515. The #8 screws will retain the 1515 buttons fine, though, so I've used #8 backing on two rockets so I can switch between the two button sizes.

 

[kalsow]

Use a #8 machine screw and if you don't like the wobble when using 1515 buttons, add a nylon collar around the screw. ??

 

[pathtouch]

I keep forgetting to check for myself at the launch site, but I’ve heard 1010 rail buttons will slide and and still be captured on 1515 rails. Anyone have any experience or a photo of that?

 

[sharkbait]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

Aside from large launches where the wait for 10/10 pads can be long and the 15/15 pads seem to be more open, why do want to switch button sizes

 

[KenECoyote]

I keep forgetting to check for myself at the launch site, but I’ve heard 1010 rail buttons will slide and and still be captured on 1515 rails. Anyone have any experience or a photo of that?

The times I've tried (most recently this past weekend), both the 1010 buttons and 1010 rail guides would NOT fit into the 1515 rail...the slot is set too deep.

(Edited to clarify)

 

[jahall4]

Use a #8 machine screw and if you don't like the wobble when using 1515 buttons, add a nylon collar around the screw. ??

Exactly (or a collar cut from metal tube), and if you are using weld nut, or similar, mounted in the airframe the nut itself becomes the post as you see pictured. This also affords the option to configure standoffs in some neat ways.

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

Exactly (or a collar cut from metal tube), and if you are using weld nut, or similar, mounted in the airframe the nut itself becomes the post as you see pictured. This also affords the option to configure standoffs in some neat ways.

View attachment 545620

Jahall4,

Love the pictures and the whole approach you have created. I think you may have a winner here.

 

[jahall4]

Jahall4,

Love the pictures and the whole approach you have created. I think you may have a winner here.

Thanks, I think so too. In fact we may offer a rail button "system" or kit, for lack of a better term, with all the parts necessary to install removable rail buttons that are interchangeable between 1010 and 1515 along with stand-off and related. As an RSO, mentor, certification observer, etc... I have seem more bad rail guide installation than I'd like. ;-)

 

[SCP]

Here is a pic of our 15 series with an 8-32 Flathead...........as mtnnanak has mentioned:

#8 screws work in the majority of 1515 buttons with no issues.

Standard Airfoiled Rail Buttons (fits 1 Rail - 1010)

Rail buttons are used in place of launch lugs to guide the rocket on the pad until the rocket reaches sufficient speed where the fins will guide the rocket. They are used on BIG rockets, where additional support is needed to prevent the rocket from swaying in the wind.

www.apogeerockets.com

Airfoil Rail Button (pair, 2 sizes)

AIRFOIL - SHAPED RAIL BUTTONS FOR 1010 AND 1515 RAILS! Not just another round button..... these are precision CNC machined from black Delrin to a true NACA airfoil shape. Strong and durable, approved for all rail launches! Our rail buttons won't damage the 1010 and 1515 rail during the...

giantleaprocketry.com

 

[David Schwantz]

Ace HDW. Go to the fastener section and get some aluminum spacers. Like the idea kalsow had. Just put them on the #8 screw to fit in a #10 hole.

 

[mtnmanak]

Here is a pic of our 15 series with an 8-32 Flathead...........as mtnnanak has mentioned:

Sorry! Forgot SCP airfoils! Scott makes awesome airfoils that work with 8-32's:

Airfoil Rail Guides – SC Precision

 

[SCP]

Sorry! Forgot SCP airfoils! Scott makes awesome airfoils that work with 8-32's:

Airfoil Rail Guides – SC Precision

You didn't forget! The Giant Leap and Apogee you mentioned come from SCP.

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Banzai88]

Revisiting this, found these: 1010 and 1515 buttons with #8 screws.

1010 Rail Button - Pair of 2

Rail buttons fit 80/20 Inc.’s 1010 rail. They have a countersunk head to prevent dragging inside the rail. The button includes a 8-32 x 1 stainless steel screw. Optionally, you can get a threaded insert, making installation easy

shop.fruitychutes.com

1515 Rail Button - Pair of 2

Rail buttons fit 80/20 Inc.’s 1515 rail. They have a countersunk head to prevent dragging inside the rail. We have two types available. Choose a button that uses the standard low profile 1/4" x 1" stainless screw. Alternatively, you can choose a button that uses 8-32 stainless steel screw. If...

shop.fruitychutes.com