Switchable rail buttons sizes

[Kevin Kittinger]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DigBaddy]

Depending on what you are drilling into to hold the buttons on, is it feasible to have a wide/short hole for the screw/bolt holding the 1515 button, but then use a long #8 screw going deeper, past that shorter/wider hole for the 1010 button? If you're not going into something like a wood centering ring, you could weld say a 1/4" nut to a steel spacer, then weld a #8 nut on the other end of the spacer. Your 1/4" bolt could then just engage with the outer nut, then a longer #8 bolt would make it to the #8 nut. I should draw a picture...

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

BigDaddy - I follow your idea and it would work. I thought that I had heard of another member that used a single post design that could support both buttons. If I get no replies then I will do your approach.

 

[DigBaddy]

BigDaddy - I follow your idea and it would work. I thought that I had heard of another member that used a single post design that could support both buttons. If I get no replies then I will do your approach.

I hope someone replies with a single-post solution Would be good to know it exists!

 

[mtnmanak]

I use 8-32 PEM nuts or Rotaloc nuts on rockets that I want to switch between 1010 and 1515.

#8 screws work in the majority of 1515 buttons with no issues.

Some 1010 buttons will work with #8 screws, like the Delrin ones from Binder Design:

http://binderdesign.com/store/Rail-Button-Supply-House.html
And all the 1010 airfoils I have work with #8 screws:

http://onebadhawk.com/onebadhawk-airfoiled-rail-guides.htmlhttps://www.apogeerockets.com/Build.../Rail_Buttons/Standard_Airfoiled_Rail_Buttonshttps://giantleaprocketry.com/produ...on-pair-10-series?_pos=2&_sid=5a6f08c00&_ss=r
For smaller buttons, it also helps to have some "undercut" flat head screws, like these from McMaster. They can often be used in 1010 buttons that are just a tad too small for #8 regular cut flat head screws:

https://www.mcmaster.com/96640A273/
For bigger rockets, I install 1/4"-20 nuts. They can easily accommodate 1515 airfoils and all my Unistrut buttons.

 

[jmasterj]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

The buttons I've got gotten from rail-buttons.com use #8 for 1010 and #10 for 1515. The #8 screws will retain the 1515 buttons fine, though, so I've used #8 backing on two rockets so I can switch between the two button sizes.

 

[kalsow]

Use a #8 machine screw and if you don't like the wobble when using 1515 buttons, add a nylon collar around the screw. ??

 

[pathtouch]

I keep forgetting to check for myself at the launch site, but I’ve heard 1010 rail buttons will slide and and still be captured on 1515 rails. Anyone have any experience or a photo of that?

 

[sharkbait]

I am looking for a source (if they exist) for a system that I can swap between 1010 buttons and 1515 buttons on the same post. Rail buttons that I have found use a #8 bolt on 1010 buttons and #10 or 1/4" bolt on 1515 buttons. I have heard that there are buttons out there that can use the same size bolt for both 1010 and 1515. I would rather not put in two sets of holes with nuts, one set for the 1010 and another set for 1515 buttons.

Thanks in advance.

Aside from large launches where the wait for 10/10 pads can be long and the 15/15 pads seem to be more open, why do want to switch button sizes

 

[KenECoyote]

I keep forgetting to check for myself at the launch site, but I’ve heard 1010 rail buttons will slide and and still be captured on 1515 rails. Anyone have any experience or a photo of that?

The times I've tried (most recently this past weekend), both the 1010 buttons and 1010 rail guides would NOT fit into the 1515 rail...the slot is set too deep.

(Edited to clarify)

 

[jahall4]

Use a #8 machine screw and if you don't like the wobble when using 1515 buttons, add a nylon collar around the screw. ??

Exactly (or a collar cut from metal tube), and if you are using weld nut, or similar, mounted in the airframe the nut itself becomes the post as you see pictured. This also affords the option to configure standoffs in some neat ways.

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

Exactly (or a collar cut from metal tube), and if you are using weld nut, or similar, mounted in the airframe the nut itself becomes the post as you see pictured. This also affords the option to configure standoffs in some neat ways.

View attachment 545620

Jahall4,

Love the pictures and the whole approach you have created. I think you may have a winner here.

 

[jahall4]

Jahall4,

Love the pictures and the whole approach you have created. I think you may have a winner here.

Thanks, I think so too. In fact we may offer a rail button "system" or kit, for lack of a better term, with all the parts necessary to install removable rail buttons that are interchangeable between 1010 and 1515 along with stand-off and related. As an RSO, mentor, certification observer, etc... I have seem more bad rail guide installation than I'd like. ;-)

 

[SCP]

Here is a pic of our 15 series with an 8-32 Flathead...........as mtnnanak has mentioned:

#8 screws work in the majority of 1515 buttons with no issues.


https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build.../Rail_Buttons/Standard_Airfoiled_Rail_Buttonshttps://giantleaprocketry.com/produ...on-pair-10-series?_pos=2&_sid=5a6f08c00&_ss=r

 

[David Schwantz]

Ace HDW. Go to the fastener section and get some aluminum spacers. Like the idea kalsow had. Just put them on the #8 screw to fit in a #10 hole.

 

[mtnmanak]

Here is a pic of our 15 series with an 8-32 Flathead...........as mtnnanak has mentioned:

Sorry! Forgot SCP airfoils! Scott makes awesome airfoils that work with 8-32's:

https://scpconcepts.com/airfoil-rail-guides/

 

[SCP]

Sorry! Forgot SCP airfoils! Scott makes awesome airfoils that work with 8-32's:

https://scpconcepts.com/airfoil-rail-guides/

You didn't forget! The Giant Leap and Apogee you mentioned come from SCP.

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Banzai88]

Revisiting this, found these: 1010 and 1515 buttons with #8 screws.

https://shop.fruitychutes.com/colle...-hardware/products/1010-rail-button-pair-of-2https://shop.fruitychutes.com/colle...-rail-button-pair-of-2?variant=32033933492314

 

[Kevin Kittinger]

Revisiting this, found these: 1010 and 1515 buttons with #8 screws.

https://shop.fruitychutes.com/colle...-hardware/products/1010-rail-button-pair-of-2https://shop.fruitychutes.com/colle...-rail-button-pair-of-2?variant=32033933492314

Thank you Banzai for finding this product!

Kevin