Survey: The future of Cash?

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re: Counterfeit detection pens

In nutshell, the pens don't offer any real protection to consumers or retailers. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) includes meaningful public features in US currency. If people would simply use those features, most counterfeits would not be accepted. Most counterfeits I've seen are actually pretty poor, yet someone accepted them.

The downside of the pens is that the resulting marks constitute graffiti on the notes, and they will be destroyed next time they are deposited and processed at a Federal Reserve office.
 
Cash will never go away But I live a 99% Cashless life! I never have cash on me I pay 75% of the time with my phone other times with debit/credit card. I only get cash out of atm when I know I will be paying a person
Now alot of people think its unsafe or it can be hacked and yes thats 100% possible but the risk is so low now adays. This is exactly what happens when I pay with say my phone.
Cashier says it will be $21.94, ok I put my finger on the fingerprint scanner on back of my Phone it recognizes me and unlocks I then hold phone 2 inches away from teller pad it sends a ONE time use credit card number to the machine and receipt will print.
This all happens in under 5 seconds there is no faster way to pay for items.
THEN
as I am walking out the door usually its about a 10-30 second delay I get a notice from my phone saying you charged $21.94 to caseys on 12/9/18 and I just swipe it away or ignore it. I know when money is coming or going out of my accounts at all times.
Caseys only gets a ONE time use random credit card number they don't see my actual credit card number so even if they rig there machines to steal CC numbers it will never work again.
Now I lose or someone steals my phone even if they guess what my phones PW is or if its not even locked, you still have to have use fingerprint to buy anything.
and if a thief manages to go threw all of that and get past the PW and bypass the fingerprint scanner well congratulations you get my daily $2000 limit lol if I havent noticed my phone is lost that is and just use any computer or another phone and disable it.

Truth is cash will never go away but aslong as you have some basic common sense digital money is completely safe. Just remember your never the millionth visitor, you didn't win a prize for visiting a site and you didn't win the Albanian lottery and you will be just fine.
 
The most interesting thing in this discussion is that there are businesses in operation that will not accept cash, US currency. US currency (except for the penny) is legal tender for satisfying all debts public and private! It seems that some fundamental law is being violated. Now it is true that that the company cafeteria that I occasionally eat at no longer accepts cash, nor has cashiers, but it is a captive enterprise not open to the general public.
 
The most interesting thing in this discussion is that there are businesses in operation that will not accept cash, US currency. US currency (except for the penny) is legal tender for satisfying all debts public and private! It seems that some fundamental law is being violated. Now it is true that that the company cafeteria that I occasionally eat at no longer accepts cash, nor has cashiers, but it is a captive enterprise not open to the general public.

Really good question. Here's the US Treasury's response to the same question.

Legal Tender Status
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
 
The most interesting thing in this discussion is that there are businesses in operation that will not accept cash, US currency. US currency (except for the penny) is legal tender for satisfying all debts public and private! It seems that some fundamental law is being violated. Now it is true that that the company cafeteria that I occasionally eat at no longer accepts cash, nor has cashiers, but it is a captive enterprise not open to the general public.

Really good question. Here's the US Treasury's response to the same question.

Legal Tender Status
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

The other way I saw this explained is that cash is legal tender for debts. Let's assume you run a gas station. If the driver can pump gas before paying, then they owe you a debt when they come to the register and you have to accept cash in addition to any other payment methods. If they prepay, they don't owe you a debt yet. Since they never owed you money, you don't have to accept cash.
 
Just off the top of my head, elimination of cash =

1. Inability to avoid negative interest rate policies by central banks OR bank "bail-ins" where depositor money is taken to pay for a banks debt via involuntary withdrawals from your account - unable to avoid because there is no cash to withdraw. When Japan began the former, there was a huge increase in demand for large denomination paper currency in Japan:

Why Negative Interest Rates Are Still Not Working in Japan
Oct 12, 2018

https://www.investopedia.com/articl...nterest-rates-are-still-not-working-japan.asp

The Cyprus Bank 'Bail-In' Is Another Crony Bankster Scam
May 3, 2018

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathan...-is-another-crony-bankster-scam/#1d7e97a72685

2. Enables governments or hackers to make you totally unable to support yourself with the figurative flick of a digital switch - they can already do this, but the potential will be even worse.
3. Every transaction will be tracked and so will be you.

ALWAYS remember that when it comes to the financial sector NOTHING is done to your benefit unless it somehow also benefits the financial sector. This sudden talk of hampering crime through the elimination of large denominations or cash altogether is pure smoke screen since that use of large bills has been going on forever. What they want is complete control and the elimination of any ability on your part to avoid that.
 
Interesting discussion here.

I work for a living, and have direct deposit of my paycheck. I use debit/credit cards exclusively and pay all my bills online.

The only time I see cash or paper checks is when I receive them in a birthday/holiday card. The only time I use cash is for paying launch fees - and that's only for two of the three clubs I fly with - one of the clubs accepts paypal.

I have been one of the "victims" of several security breaches including, Target in 2013 and Home Depot in 2014. I was only inconvenienced once - the first time my debit card was compromised in 2006 and my checking account was emptied. It took a trip to the bank and about 12 hours to be "made whole" again.

You might say I am the antithesis of electronic transaction/banking/tracking/hacking paranoia.
 
You might say I am the antithesis of electronic transaction/banking/tracking/hacking paranoia.
Have you been subjected to negative interest rate policies or bank bail-ins? No? Do you buy insurance just in case some very rare bad things happen? Yes? What are you, paranoid?

CASH is an insurance policy. DO NOT let them get rid of it.
 
I find it interesting that the majority of comments here are along the lines of "cash isn't going away" while the preponderance of words in that cloud are the opposite. That is, unless the word cloud software words out of context, to "not gone" is a count for "gone".
 
Since this discussion has been going on, it got me to thinking (and that can be dangerous, but I digress). In any case, the elimination of cash, in order for it to happen at all, would have to happen globally because, since the need/desire for cash wouldn't go away, people could always switch to another form of cash. Early in our own history, US states issued their own currency and, if the US government abandoned cash, no doubt some states would choose to do so again and if they did well, as in, if many people used it, then that currency would overflow into other states. Failing that, the cash currency of other nations would begin to be used and exchanged. Many nations (other than ours) already use US currency as acceptable cash. Although Liberia has their own currency, its present value is so low that you have to have piles of it to buy anything significant (we bought a donut for ten Liberian dollars, or five for about one US quarter) so almost everyone uses US dollars instead. The two currencies exist side by side. This is true in other nations as well. If our nation abandoned the dollar, it isn't difficult to imagine that at least the northern states would begin to use Canadian currency. Where there's a need, something will come to fill that need.
 
If our nation abandoned the dollar, it isn't difficult to imagine that at least the northern states would begin to use Canadian currency. Where there's a need, something will come to fill that need.
I'd expect both the Canadian dollar and Mexican peso to see use, and maybe things like the GB pound and euro. It'd be interesting to see what would wind up as the new normal. But let's not try.
 
Funny thing, last night my credit union called and said that someone was using my card number in Switzerland. Today, I'll go and get a new one at a branch. I'll go straight from there to buy my groceries. No cash required.
 
When speculating about the future I also look at the past.

Ten years ago:

I used my credit card for most transactions, as measured by $total or #transactions.
I used direct bank account debit for major routine auto-bill stuff as much as possible, except where I wanted points on my credit card.
I had a paypal account that I used only for relatively sketchy purchases (ebay and the like)
I used cash for small stuff like lunch cafeteria
I wondered when I could start paying stuff by phone, which was on the horizon (even before iPhone) but not really a thing

Today,
Same comments for everything above, except now I use my phone for about a third of my in-store purchases... not every place takes GooglePay or ApplePay (I'm Android, by the way).
Today I'm wondering when it will be a common thing to have an implanted RFID or similar device and just wave my arm by a sensor to pay. This exists in limited places in EU, by the way.

Security concerns:
Last year, we had two card numbers stolen and used, one right before we went on vacation, the other started being used while we were on vacation. Oddly, one was "my wife's card number, for an account where I'm the primary cardholder" and the other was "my card number, on an account where my wife is the primary cardholder." We each carry ~3 credit cards so each of us losing access to one was no inconvenience. Autobilled things were automatically moved to the new card.

Completely unconcerned about using phone for credit; it's quite secure presuming your phone locks. As for me, I turn off NFC when not using it anyway.

Marc
 
Completely unconcerned about using phone for credit; it's quite secure presuming your phone locks. As for me, I turn off NFC when not using it anyway.
That only helps until someone figures out how to imitate your phone with his own chip; then you can keep your phone on double secret lock and it'll makes no difference. I'm uncomfortably certain that it's a matter of when this happens, not if. That's why the "PIN" part of "chip and PIN" is important, and the "go" part of "tap and go" is, for me, unacceptable.

If cash goes away, I hope I do first so it's not my problem.
 
That only helps until someone figures out how to imitate your phone with his own chip; then you can keep your phone on double secret lock and it'll makes no difference. I'm uncomfortably certain that it's a matter of when this happens, not if. That's why the "PIN" part of "chip and PIN" is important, and the "go" part of "tap and go" is, for me, unacceptable.

If cash goes away, I hope I do first so it's not my problem.
Totally not worried. Since my phone's NFC is off most of the time, it's not practical for someone to clone its signature. And I'm alerted immediately via mobile anytime the credit card is used, with indications as to how the card was used (Google pay or physical card etc.) So if there's a problem I can be on it right away.

Google Pay and Apple Pay will be very hard to fake, in a way that isn't easily detectable. Of all the credit theft scenarios this is the one I worry about the least. And I've got credit protection anyway. I'm not going to inconvenience myself over worries about security in this instance.
 
Totally not worried. Since my phone's NFC is off most of the time, it's not practical for someone to clone its signature. And I'm alerted immediately via mobile anytime the credit card is used, with indications as to how the card was used (Google pay or physical card etc.) So if there's a problem I can be on it right away.

Google Pay and Apple Pay will be very hard to fake, in a way that isn't easily detectable. Of all the credit theft scenarios this is the one I worry about the least. And I've got credit protection anyway. I'm not going to inconvenience myself over worries about security in this instance.

Marc_G,

What about the issues of "Privacy" ?

Cash is the ONLY method of payment capable of ensuring that, other than "bartering".

Dave F.
 
The horses left that barn a decade or two ago, and the door isn't open, it's in shambles and splinters.

I have no expectation of privacy in commercial transactions. The issue is more, who has access to the records?

The credit card and Bank companies know all about my spending habits, as does Google. Hell, Amazon knows more about me than I do.

In the past decade, probably less than 1% of my total spend had been cash, and probably less than 5% of my discretionary / hobby spend.

And most spend is taxed one way or the other.

What privacy am I supposed to try to defend? I do want options to limit disclosure of my spending habits, and reduce their use for marketing etc.. but the reality is most of us are open books to our Banks and have been for a long time.

We have met big data, and it is us. There is no going back.
Marc_G,

What about the issues of "Privacy" ?

Cash is the ONLY method of payment capable of ensuring that, other than "bartering".

Dave F.
 
Oh, for the record, I'm not advocating getting rid of cash. Just saying that my use of cash is frankly trivial and that I'm also not terribly worried about privacy issues.

For those advocating on behalf of "privacy," what use cases are you worried about and what privacy gaps do you worry about that would make you prefer cash?
 
Rumor has it, that here in Canada with the recent 'end of prohibition' on a certain plant, that some US border guards are now asking for credit cards to verify there are no purchases of said plant..

Privacy with plastic?!! I have a bridge in NY to sell, cheap..
 
My understanding is that it's not illegal for U.S. citizens to consume certain plants legally purchased in Canada, while they are still visiting Canada. So not sure how a review of purchase records would indicate the difference between legal use versus illegal importation.

Nonetheless, a border agent invoking a credit use search in the absence of compelling reasonable cause to suspect criminal behavior seems like a gross abuse of power. And a stupid one... People could just buy the plants with gift cards that are not immediately traceable.
Rumor has it, that here in Canada with the recent 'end of prohibition' on a certain plant, that some US border guards are now asking for credit cards to verify there are no purchases of said plant..

Privacy with plastic?!! I have a bridge in NY to sell, cheap..
 
My understanding is that it's not illegal for U.S. citizens to consume certain plants legally purchased in Canada, while they are still visiting Canada. So not sure how a review of purchase records would indicate the difference between legal use versus illegal importation.

Nonetheless, a border agent invoking a credit use search in the absence of compelling reasonable cause to suspect criminal behavior seems like a gross abuse of power. And a stupid one... People could just buy the plants with gift cards that are not immediately traceable.

But it is illegal for a US citrizen to come up to Canada (or some other European contry) and by Cuban cigars..

The fact is, as a Canadian visiting the US, the border guard has the right to ask the question, any question to validate you are OK to enter. And, since it is an activity illegal in the US that you admitted to / have proof of purchase, you can be barred.. for life! And, if you lie about using, even occasionally, that can also lead to a lifetime ban..

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/kyla-lee/us-canada-border-marijuana_a_23481830/
https://globalnews.ca/news/4461315/...to-u-s-border-officials-some-might-some-wont/
 
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