Survey: The future of Cash?

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by Worsaer, Dec 6, 2018.

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  1. Dec 6, 2018 #31

    jqavins

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    I have no interest in the tap-and-go phone payment thing. Partly because I just have interest in having or using the latest cool thing; partly because with no PIN, signature, or anything a lost phone could cost me hundreds in such purchases; and partly because if it hasn't been hacked yet then it will be. (Anyone who says it's unhackable is either lying, deluded, or stupid.)
     
  2. Dec 6, 2018 #32

    Jozef

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    If you are a believer that corruption is innate to politics, governments, crime and big business....and illegal drug trade will never be subdued....US of A not withstanding, cash will remain well beyond the next decade.
     
  3. Dec 6, 2018 #33

    Steven

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    Imagine using cash for crime as opposed to a debit card. And that's how I keep my nose clean.
     
  4. Dec 6, 2018 #34

    timbucktoo

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    Especially in states where marijuana is legalized (unless federal laws change)!
     
  5. Dec 6, 2018 #35

    Nathan

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    My cash usage is almost zero. I think the only cash I have used in the past couple of months was some tips and to pay the dog sitter.
     
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  6. Dec 6, 2018 #36

    jderimig

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    Federal Reserve data. Can you spot where digital payments started to effect cash usage?
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Dec 7, 2018 #37

    Blackleaf99

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    Why a cashless society is a really bad idea:

    • Loss of Privacy - there will be a digital trail of all your purchases and transfers

    • End of Dissent - the government can use any data it gathers against you

    • Endangers Freedom - a single keystroke can freeze access to your account or transfer your money to the government

    • Negative Interest Rates - the government could effectively tax every dollar you own by charging you to keep your digital currency in the bank

    • Mandatory instant payment of the US national debt tax - all your future purchases/transactions will be taxed to pay the mounting $22 Trillion in debt
     
  8. Dec 7, 2018 #38

    boatgeek

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    The interesting thing about the Sweden case was that the change was almost entirely driven by businesses and the government was trying to slow it down. There's some more on why businesses might want to ditch cash here: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/08/Heres-Why-More-Stores-Are-Refusing-Take-Cash It makes a certain amount of sense for a new business that caters to people who have cards and doesn't already have the infrastructure for handling cash. I think I read somewhere a while back that credit card companies were paying businesses to go cashless, but I could be making that up.

    Bottom line: it's a free market and if a store decides not to take cash, they don't have to. It's a business decision with pluses and minuses for both sides. While I don't want to go cashless and leave 7% of the population out in the cold for paying for goods, local, state, and/or federal governments telling businesses what kind of payment they can take is the top of a pretty slippery slope greased with lots of lawsuits. Is there another metaphor I can mix in there?
     
  9. Dec 7, 2018 #39

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    I use very little cash. I always carry a decent amount in my wallet, but it can last a long, long time — like literally months. I buy most things with credit and debit cards, and I have for at least 20 years or more.

    Two years ago, when I did my Camino walk across Spain, it was almost entirely a cash economy. Most restaurants, lodging, even many stores only accepted cash. It was a weird adjustment. Every few days I’d get a few hundred euros out of an ATM. And we had to plan ahead for which villages had ATMs so we wouldn’t get caught short.

    For security, I’d carry the bulk of my cash in one wallet in my secure zippered pocket, and I’d carry my day’s cash in my front pocket in a small coin purse. I was out of practice making exact change, especially with unfamiliar currency, so the coins I got in change would start to stack up, and I’d be hiking down the trail with a bulging pocket of heavy metal currency in my pocket. It felt archaic, but I kind of liked it in a way, and it seemed right for walking through the medieval villages. But in normal daily life, I find cash inconvenient.

    One of the places I always bring plenty of cash is to big multi-day rocket launches. I use it for food vendors and for splitting bills if I go to a restaurant with friends. One of my rocketry vendors has started adding a charge for credit card payments, so sometimes I pay cash. And it keeps the huge motor orders off the bank statement!
     
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  10. Dec 7, 2018 #40

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    The problem with the gold or silver standard, or any commodity-based standard, is that it’s not really compatible with a huge and growing economy. There’s not enough gold in the world to handle all the world’s economic transactions.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2018 #41

    woferry

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    I guess perhaps there are folks who haven't heard of Steve Wozniak's prank, where he buys uncut sheets of US $2 bills, has them perforated and sometimes bound, so that he can pull out a pad or folded stack of $2 bills and tear some off to hand to people as tips, etc. Archived story is here, as well as a video.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  12. Dec 7, 2018 #42

    shreadvector

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    http://www.2dollarbillmovie.com/

    No updates this year as they are waiting for the next session of congress. There will most likely be new legislation introduced and it will sit there unless someone champions it and gets many cosponsors. A few years ago there was an excellent hearing with webcast and the RCM director was fantastic.
    http://www.dollarcoinalliance.org/
    https://www.facebook.com/dollarcoinalliance
     
  13. Dec 7, 2018 #43

    mpitfield

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    I like the idea of a digital currency but that is assuming it addresses the issues with FIAT currency and how governments play with it, but that is a pipe dream.

    If the government is controlling it, and they are trying to very much along with the big banks, then I see it as what a lot of others have correctly envisioned it as, intrusive! Simply a means for government to track and control you. Imagine never having to file another tax return, sounds great on the surface but no thanks.

    The other issue with digital or crypto currencies is it is still early days and very much like the wild wild west of old, lots of opportunity but dabble at your own risk. I have been into cryptos for years and I have done exceptionally well, way better than any traditional investment, but not all of my cryptos have done well and increasingly it has become difficult. However the cryptosphere is here to stay in my opinion, but I am not optimistic that it will end up being a good thing for the average person.
     
  14. Dec 7, 2018 #44

    jlabrasca

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    Its regional. I have gotten a few in change in recent years (in Portland). Most often when making purchases at convenience stores ... but that is probably an artifact since I am more likely to use cash at the Plaid Pantry or 7-11 than I am at the Safeway or at Kroger's. I have to admit, I don't spend them. My kid is in charge of the collection now.

    I also had more than 50 Sacagawea dollars; change from the light rail ticket machines. They were spirited out of the house and deposited in the bank by a family member impervious to the appeal of large numbers of identical coins languishing on a window sill.
     
  15. Dec 7, 2018 #45

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    I had a bunch of the Sacagawea dollars too, plus a crap-ton of State quarters and other coins I’d collected out of interest, but no real value. And I also had a bunch of just regular pocket change that I’d dumped into a container and had built up to a good amount. At some point all this got stored into the same drawer, and I don't remember exactly how, but it all eventually got spilled together. A couple years ago, I thought “I’m never going to sort through this again”, so I dumped the entire pile into a huge bag and took it down to a coin star machine. I got something like 600 bucks! Also, the machine kicked out a few coins that weren’t acceptable, which included some foreign coins and also a couple of silver dimes and quarters I forgot I even owned! I was pretty happy with finding the silver coins and getting 600 dollars I didn’t even know I had, but the best part was getting my drawer back.
     
  16. Dec 7, 2018 #46

    sooner.boomer

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  17. Dec 7, 2018 #47

    Ez2cDave

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    Cash MUST remain . . .

    https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

    https://sdbullion.com/silver-prices


    "Electronic Assets" are risky, in many ways :

    ( 1 ) Every transaction is surveilled and recorded. ( No "privacy" )
    ( 2 ) People, "en masse" could instantly be controlled by "freezing their assets".
    ( 3 ) "Enemies of the State" could have all of their assets frozen or outright seized.
    ( 4 ) EMP could wipe it all out.
    ( 5 ) Clerical errors can be very problematic.
    ( 6 ) Hackers could "clean you out" or "siphon" funds.

    "Metals / Precious Stones" are impractical :

    ( 1 ) As expensive as Gold, Diamonds, and even Silver have become, "making change" becomes a nightmare.
    ( 2 ) The "system" is not designed to work with those commodities ( especially Diamonds, etc., since each one has a different "value". )
    ( 3 ) Their values "fluctuate" daily and the "more there is, the less they're worth".
    ( 4 ) There isn't "enough to go around" for 320 million people.
    ( 5 ) How do people in the present system, at their present levels of income ( especially lower income ) afford to make the changeover ?

    Imagine trying to buy a Big Mac meal with Gold or Diamonds . . .
    How "tiny" would $7.00 worth of Gold be ? ( Almost $1250 / oz this morning )
    That Big Mac meal would cost 1/178 oz. of Gold ( .0056 oz. / .159 gr )

    OK . . . Silver . . . $14.65 / oz. today .
    You get paid at work in Silver ( lets say $500, for example ) and are handed 2.133 lb. of Silver . . . "What's in your wallet" ? LOL !

    Diamonds . . . How do you "make change" ? ( Each stone would have to be appraised for value, also )

    Cash must stay . . . ( The "Fed" must go )

    Dave F.
     
  18. Dec 7, 2018 #48

    Ez2cDave

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    SPOT-ON !

    That is PRECISELY why the "Government" / NWO wants to go ALL "Electronic" . . .

    Dave F.
     
  19. Dec 7, 2018 #49

    jqavins

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    Also, gold is no more "real" as money than paper. You can't eat it, you can't run your car on it, you can't build a house out of it, you can do barely anything practical with it at all; all you can do (except for a few niche industrial applications) is make decorative items or admire you stack of it. Or trade it for other commodities, and then only as much of those commodities as someone else believes it's worth. Just like paper.
     
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  20. Dec 7, 2018 #50

    cwbullet

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    Gold is a little more indestructible than paper.
     
  21. Dec 7, 2018 #51

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    I agree gold is no more "real" than paper as currency and only has the value people are willing to believe it's worth. The one difference between a commodity like gold and paper money is that the supply of gold cant be easily increased like paper money -- you can't print gold. That's usually what people who prefer a gold standard like about it. But that's also its weakness as a currency for a large and EXPANDING economy. The world's gold supply doesn't expand at the same rate as the world's economy and the number of transactions that needs to be conducted to keep it functioning.
     
  22. Dec 7, 2018 #52

    jlabrasca

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    You also need to factor in the risk of a super-villain making the entire gold supply of the United States radioactive for fifty-seven years to increase the value of his own gold by a factor of ten.
     
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  23. Dec 7, 2018 #53

    jqavins

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    Both fair points.
    Umm, yeah, that.
     
  24. Dec 8, 2018 #54

    solid_fuel

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    Diamonds could never work as currency Let’s just stop talking about that right off the bat. Diamonds aren’t fungible and the larger stones are worth more that smaller stones by weight alone.ie a one carat diamond is worth more than 4 one quarter carat diamonds. Plus there are way too many variables. Diamonds will never be and have never been a currency. Gold and silver however can easily be and have been for centuries. One Big Mac could easily be paid for with silver. And change given in smaller silver. Or copper. Gold would be reserved for larger purchases. Similar to how it was used for thousands of years. The first US bills were simply promising you that you would be paid its value in silver or gold. It wasn’t until recently that people even believed in paper money. Now we have been so brainwashed to believe that it’s the only form of money.
     
  25. Dec 8, 2018 #55

    Worsaer

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    Sort of. The currency will still work, but the supply chain and distribution network is vulnerable. I was just reading up on 'Starfish Prime' in 1962 and the effects experienced in Hawaii. We are even more dependent on electricity and electronics today. Either a human-induced EMP or a solar magnetic event could wreak havoc on much of what many people today take for granted.
     
  26. Dec 8, 2018 #56

    Worsaer

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    More than 100 people responded to the survey, but the free version of SurveyMonkey only allows me to review 100 responses.

    Here's a word cloud compilation of the results...

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Dec 8, 2018 #57

    jlabrasca

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    holograms? aruba? vibrant?

    I suspect that some of the respondents may not have treated the survey with the seriousness demanded by internet surveys. <smile>

    I don't think anybody was seriously suggesting diamonds as currency. Peartree brought up diamonds as an example of the kinds of things that would be traded in place of currency if physical currency were to be eliminated. This made me think of Klaatu's remarks to Bobby as he trades him diamonds for the price of movie tickets in The Day the Earth Stood Still .

    As for getting back onto the gold standard, or the silver standard, or anything other than the shared-hallucination-of-value standard that we now employ -- as ThirstyBarbarian points out -- there are structural difficulties.

    https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-strange-secret-history-of-operation-goldfinger
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  28. Dec 9, 2018 at 1:29 AM #58

    vcp

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    As a totally peripheral side note, though it does involve cash - in the past when I've had occasion to have a handful of 100-dollar bills, I've sometimes spray-starched them. Makes for interesting transactions when the 'counterfeit detection' pens are used.
     
  29. Dec 9, 2018 at 3:38 PM #59

    Ez2cDave

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    I've always been curious how those pens work . . . So, I looked it up.

    From my "extensive research" ( 5 minutes ) :

    ****************************************************************************************************************************************

    The counterfeit detector pen is extremely simple. It contains an iodine solution that reacts with the starch in wood-based paper to create a black stain. When the solution is applied to the fiber-based paper used in real bills, no discoloration occurs.

    At many grocery and convenience stores, clerks will use an iodine-based counterfeiting pen. The pen reacts to the starch in the paper. If the bill is real, the ink turns yellow. But if the bill is counterfeit, it will turn a dark blue or black.

    When the pen is used to mark genuine bills, the mark is yellowish or colorless. Such pens are most effective against counterfeit notes printed on standard printer or photocopier paper. The chemical properties of US banknotes prior to 1960 are such that marking pens do not work.

    ALSO :

    Counterfeit Pens

    The notion that a counterfeit detector pen will save you from counterfeit money should be officially retired. The pen is built around a simple premise - a chemical reaction between starch and iodine. This fundamental test was defeated by enterprising counterfeiters years ago. The detector pen “ink” is an iodine solution, which turns a solid black when exposed to starch found in most commercial paper. Starch is a cheap way to whiten materials (there is also starch in your laundry detergent), and the thinking goes that any counterfeits printed on such paper will be immediately found.

    Unfortunately, there are at least three things wrong with this concept.

    • Not all paper uses starch. All an enterprising fraudster needs to do is walk along the paper aisle of the local office supply store and test the pen on every brand of paper until he finds one that does not turn the ink black – and voila!
    • Even if the fraudster were to use starched paper, there are fairly easy ways to prevent the chemical reaction that turns the ink black from occurring. For instance, a light coating of hairspray will form a barrier over the paper keeping starch and iodine apart.
    • The detector pens will likewise miss the newest form of forgery, in the form of washed notes. Fraudsters take $1 and $5 bills, bleach them and print the pattern for $100 in their stead. Since the paper is still real U.S. dollar paper, there is no starch.

    END DATA :

    Dave F.
     
  30. Dec 9, 2018 at 6:51 PM #60

    les

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    I must be old fashioned... We (wife & I) primarily use cash and save using our credit cards for bigger purchases

    Knowing issues with hackers and such, I would not want a strictly cashless society. Not to mention I do not trust either the government or big corporations. They have way to much access to what I do already....
    I've had a few instances where my credit card got compromised, actually flagged by the credit card institution, and then shut down. I would then have to wait a few days before a replacement card would be sent. If no cash, what do you do while waiting???
     

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