Surely I must be crazy...

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Zaphod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone. This is my first post here although I've been a member for a few weeks. I flew model rockets as a young teen (including that awful Estes X-Wing Fighter) but lost interest as I got older and beer and girls got more interesting. That was a mistake. I recently re-introduced myself to the hobby, and initiated my six year-old son, and we're both having a blast. This is way more fun than I remember.

We started with a lauch kit that included the Astrobeam - my son liked that we could fly it in the dark. From there I built an Estes Space Eagle which, for obvious reasons, I consider my first real build. Next came a Fusion X-25 which disappeared into the clouds, never to be found, during an ill-advised flight on a C6-5. But I wanted to build something bigger. I never got past C engines as a kid, and I couldn't wait to launch something D or E-powered. Next stop: Vagabond.

I spent four days meticulously airfoiling the fins, which is a challenge with each fin coming in three pieces. Either you glue first and then sand into and around glue joints, or you sand first, trying to avoid the areas you'll need to glue together. I tried both ways and preferred the former. The end result was awesome regardless - Beautifully rounded leading edges, blending perfectly from one piece to another, and trailing edges that fell away in a real teardrop. I have a very keen eye for minute detail, and these were near perfect. They also went onto the airframe bolt straight. I was so proud I showed my wife, and that was the first time (of a few so far, and many more I'm sure) that she thought I was insane when it came to rockets.

Maiden flight! My son is with me, as well as my neighbour and his three kids. I chose a D12-5, because the launch site was a schoolyard, which is big as schoolyards go, but apparently not quite big enough. Should have gone with the C11. Still, this flight justified every bit of pride I felt in my work, because all the other rockets displayed some kinid of flight anomaly which betrayed my imperfect contrsuction - minor things like slow arcs in one direction or another, or a gentle twisting and wobbling. The Vagabond, however, went up straight and true like a bloody laser, probably 800-1000 feet. All of us stood there, stunned at the awesomeness of it all, and watched the chute deploy flawlessly and the rocket start to gently float down. Then I realized I'd badly misjudged the wind, or maybe it was moving in a different direction up there, but as I began to give chase, I could tell that it wasn't coming down in the schoolyard.

So I run like an idiot across the schoolyard, trying to keep my eyes on the (blue? really Estes?) chute so as not to lose it in the sky (the blue sky... the sky is blue, Estes). As I get to the edge of the schoolyard, I see it go down behind one of the houses across the street. So I start ringing doorbells and checking in backyards, walk around the block and check the houses behind, look up in trees... No dice. I'm forced to return to the launch site empty handed. My neighbour heads home, and my son and I pack up and get in the car. Then he says to me "is the rocket gone forever dad?"
"Not bloody likely!" I think to myself. So we take another drive around the block, carefully tracing the path of the rocket, and yes! We find it! But... NO! It's hanging 40 feet up in a pine tree in someone's backyard.

The people who owned the house were amazing. They let me into the backyard, and even offered a painters pole to try and dislodge the rocket, but at 12 feet, it was nowhere near long enough. Climbing the pine was out of the question, but there was a smaller maple beside it, so up I went. But even with me 20 feet up in this 30-foot maple, I didn't have enough reach. So... off to Home Depot. The longest branch trimmer they have is 14 feet - not enough and impossible to operate while up in a tree. I figured my best bet was a 16-foot painters pole with a long-handled mini roller attached. That gave me 18-20 feet of reach. I returned to the house the next day, and no one was home. But they told me to let myself in, so I did. I propped the pole up against the tree trunk, and clambered back up, a few feet higher than the previous day. Then I hoisted up the pole, weavng it carefully through the maple branches so I could reach the pine branch, and this time, I was able to hook the shock cord and pull until it snapped, sending the airframe down to the ground. And as I looked down at it, 25 feet below me, with my left arm hooked around a branch and my right arm trying to maneuver an 18-foot painters pole that must also weight 20 pounds, I thought to myself:

"You're out of your fcuking mind! You're hanging 25 feet up in a tree, waving around a huge pole to try and recover a cardboard tube! If you fell, no one would know and you would die here in this strange backyard."

So I decided to take the partial victory, and abandon the chute and nosecone. I got the important part, and of course it's not the tube, it's the fins. I'll buy the kit again and use the leftover parts on some scratch builds I have in the works.

So am I crazy? My wife sure thinks so. Me, though, I'm not sure. Last night, me and my son (who has ADHD) sat together and built the Estes Shuttle Express. It took about an hour and he was hands-on, focused and interested the whole time. Now he can't wait to go and launch it, because, according to him, it'll be the most special because he built it himself. I'll hang from a tree for that any day of the week.
 
Ok, let's see...you take pride in your work...you demonstrated courtesy and cooperation...and you have inspired your son to focus on a hands-on act of creativity...

Nope, I think you sound like a great dad.

During my grammar school and middle school days I would have given ANYTHING to have a dad do stuff like that with me!!!
 
You were doing just fine until you climbed the tree to get the rocket ... bad mojo ... and unless I am remembering incorrectly against the safety code. But regardless ... WELCOME back to the hobby.
 
Ditto on the wish to have had a dad who was interested in this kind of stuff. And thanks for the kind words.

Here's a shot of the bird pre-flight. I recall seeing a signature here about naked maiden flights and rockets earning their paint, and that seemed quite sensible to me. No point in making it all pretty if you might have to rebuild it to fly properly. I believe this one has more than earned a few coats once I replace the nosecone.

Vagabond.jpg
 
You were doing just fine until you climbed the tree to get the rocket ... bad mojo ... and unless I am remembering incorrectly against the safety code. But regardless ... WELCOME back to the hobby.

Did not know climbing tress was against the safety code. I suppose I would do well to read that more thoroughly before I get into this any deeper. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
Did not know climbing tress was against the safety code. I suppose I would do well to read that more thoroughly before I get into this any deeper. Thanks for the heads-up.

Point 11 in the NAR safety code reads: "I will not attempt to recover my rocket from power lines, tall trees, or other dangerous places". I would say that 25 feet up in a tree can be construed as a "dangerous place".

Perhaps this is an opportunity for another lesson? "I made a mistake, son. I shouldn't have climbed up that tree because I could have been hurt. I have learned a lesson" If I had an adult talk to me like that, I would have thought: "wow, what a cool dude!"
 
Did not know climbing tress was against the safety code. I suppose I would do well to read that more thoroughly before I get into this any deeper. Thanks for the heads-up.

"I will not attempt to recover my rocket from power lines or other dangerous places"... is the wording, paraphrased as closely to quoted as I can remember it...

A tree itself isn't a "dangerous place" (otherwise what'd we do with all those treehouses!) BUT you just have to be careful... The main thing is being conscientious about safety and not doing anything you don't have confidence is safe, which is sometimes hard to exercise good judgement when you're excited or frustrated and emotionally involved because you've put a LOT of work into a particular rocket... It's understandable, but you have to take a moment of pause and really think "is this safe?? what happens if....." and then act accordingly.

The main thing to remember is NEVER EVER attempt to retrieve ANY rocket from a power line... even if it's plated with 18 karat gold and has gold nuggets in the payload bay, it simply IS NOT WORTH IT... even the relatively low powerlines going out to street transformers are in the 6,000 to 11,000 volt range and can EASILY jump an arc to anything grounded (IE YOU, on a ladder, or standing on the ground, or whatever). Normal "insulators" like wood and regular fiberglass and stuff simply don't have the dielectric strength to resist the voltages and currents involved and WILL pass enough electricity to kill you. These feeder lines can easily throw an arc a foot or more away (I had a cat decide to climb the power pole and got about a foot away from the transformer input connection when she got arced-- blew her across the yard like a flaming meteor and she was dead before she hit the ground, and broiled to boot... what a mess!) Taller power lines have even MORE voltage and can arc even further...

Sadly even folks that "know better" sometimes forget this simple rule and attempt to recover their rockets from power lines, with tragic results. Just a couple years ago or so here on the forum, a regular contributor attempted to retrieve his rocket from a power line from atop a ladder, using a stick to "knock it down", and died as a result. His friend holding the ladder was severely injured, but survived. Not fun stuff, and rocketry is about having FUN!

If you DO have a rocket get ensnared by a power line, call your power company. Some companies will come retrieve them for free to eliminate the hazards of "debris" on the power lines, or the risks to people attempting to recover them from the power line themselves (with often tragic consequences). Some power companies DO charge for retrieval though, so it's a good idea to find out in advance and judge if it's worth the cost. Losing rockets is just part of the hobby, and something we rocketeers have to come to terms with... knowledge and experience are your best bets there... learn how big a motor you can fly in what rockets on the particular flying site and flying conditions you have at the time... it's difficult and takes awhile to learn, but in time you will. And, when the inevitable DOES happen and your rocket malfunctions and crashes or ends up rotting on a power line (to quote Dr. Zooch of Dr. Zooch Rockets in his inimical way), just think of how much better the replacement you build will be, after the things you learned building the rocket the first time...

Later and good luck! OL JR :)

PS. There's several retrieval ideas I've read on here about getting rockets back out of trees, from using a shotgun to shoot it down, to the more practical ideas of using a fishing line and small weight, tossed into the tree until snagging the shock cord or parachute and then being used to pull the rocket out of the tree...
 
Point 11 in the NAR safety code reads: "I will not attempt to recover my rocket from power lines, tall trees, or other dangerous places". I would say that 25 feet up in a tree can be construed as a "dangerous place".
It certainly could be for the vast majority of people, but I wouldn't put myself in that group. I spent a number of years working for a landscaping/tree service when I was younger. I spent a lot of time in trees, and I'm still very comfortable in them, and understand the potential pitfalls. I was EXTREMELY cautious, and tested every branch before commiting full weight to it, always made sure I had a solid handhold before stepping onto a new branch, and when I reached my final position, I locked my left arm around a thick branch, holding it in the crook of my elbow with my fist held close to my chest, while I hefted the pole with my right hand. Despite that thought I relayed in my original post, I never once felt in any kind of danger of falling.

Yeah, I know. I'm sure some of those people who were trying to get their rockets off power lines never felt they in danger either. That's absolutely true and correct. I don't expect this kind of situation to arise again, now that I've found a spectacular launch field about 15 minutes from my house, but should it ever, I'll go with Luke's suggestion of a weight tied to fishing line. And despite the safe recovery, this is still an excellent suggestion:

"I made a mistake, son. I shouldn't have climbed up that tree because I could have been hurt. I have learned a lesson"

As for this:

The main thing to remember is NEVER EVER attempt to retrieve ANY rocket from a power line... even if it's plated with 18 karat gold and has gold nuggets in the payload bay, it simply IS NOT WORTH IT... even the relatively low powerlines going out to street transformers are in the 6,000 to 11,000 volt range and can EASILY jump an arc to anything grounded (IE YOU, on a ladder, or standing on the ground, or whatever). Normal "insulators" like wood and regular fiberglass and stuff simply don't have the dielectric strength to resist the voltages and currents involved and WILL pass enough electricity to kill you. These feeder lines can easily throw an arc a foot or more away (I had a cat decide to climb the power pole and got about a foot away from the transformer input connection when she got arced-- blew her across the yard like a flaming meteor and she was dead before she hit the ground, and broiled to boot... what a mess!)

I'm not ever going there. I've never broiled a cat, but years ago when I was in a band, I watched our 6'6" 270 pound drummer fly 10 feet across a room after shorting a live 3-phase panel while trying to wire in our distro. I have no idea how he walked away uninjured, let alone alive. No rocket is worth that.

Thanks folks.
 
Great pop-culture references all around, by the way. Boomtube comes up with Airplane, and Luke with Bloom County! I still miss that strip...
 
Welcome back to the hobby, Mr. Beeblebrox! Obviously your adventures qualify your for a never-ending subscription to TRF; home of the madcap and zany world of recycled electrons redirected for our various uses in the world of rocketry. Please feel free to contribute any spare particles you may have to our secret World Domination Machine and remember the TRF slogan: If you don't have pictures, it didn't happen. I myself have many imaginary rockets, flown with imaginary friends, in a distant galaxy. Thanks for posting...carry on as you were.
 
SacEsq, you may have been right. That Shuttle Express I built with my son last night - he insisted on launching today. The schoolyard was occupied with soccer games, so we went to a different park which has a strange layout, and seeming weird wind currents all the time. Against my better judgement I agreed. First a B6-4, which went very well, except one of the gliders fell like a rock instead of gliding. Next a C6-5 without the gliders (I didn't want them dropping on heads from 500 feet). Woops. Right off the pad it arced away from the wind despite the launch rod angle into the wind. Then there was no hope. The chute popped and the rocket sailed over a heavily wooded area and disappeared. No climbing, no retrieval, no nothing this time. It's gone. Hopefully that's the end of my bad mojo, or at least my stupid decisions.
 
Great story! Sorry you couldn't get it all back, but your efforts are amazing and something many of us can relate to. I know I can.

I'm too old to climb a tree but any time I've lost a rocket to a tree I've been determined to not let the tree win. I'd like to think that any recovery is possible so as not to be too inimidated by the trees to never take to the air. Of course there are practical limits.

Every launch I go to I pack my trusty combo of a 24 foot telescoping aluminum painters pole, two 8 foot sections of wood and one ten foot section. I've actually been successful lashing it all together with Gorilla tape, section by section, allowing the branches above support the "pole" when I need to take a break. Sometimes things are just too high still though or just too difficult to get a clear shot to with this overly whippy combination. Nothing beats the elation though of finally succeeding. That elation is eventually followed by thoughts like yours of why the heck did I go to such crazy lengths to get a silly little rocket back. I guess its love of the hobby and that need to be mightier than the rocket eating tree.

Welcome back to the hobby! :)

Jim Z
 
Half the people here will tell you that the nose cone is the most important part of a vagabond.

I got a rocket stuck in a tree on my first day back. My big bertha, with it's perfect paint job. Really, I've built nine since, and none of them have turned out as well as the first. Spent an hour with a huge wrench on some rope throwing it in the tree, hoping to catch the cord. Almost broke my hand when it came flying back. Then tried a stick duct taped to a golf ball grabber duct taped to a ten foot pole. Grabbed the top and pulled it down. Got the nose and chute too. Some paint chips, but it's at over fifteen flights since.
 
One word; McCulloch!

(hey-if it was a 'green' sport, we'd be launching water rockets with miracle grow mixed in...)
 
One word; McCulloch!

(hey-if it was a 'green' sport, we'd be launching water rockets with miracle grow mixed in...)


If you're going to do it... do it RIGHT!

Use the McCullough for a boat anchor and get yourself a STIHL!!!

Later! OL JR :)
 
Half the people here will tell you that the nose cone is the most important part of a vagabond.

Yeah, why is that? I've seen a few posts about Vagabond nosecones. Can that shape/size of nosecone not be bought somewhere separately? It's just a 15 cm Ogive, no?
 
Yeah, why is that? I've seen a few posts about Vagabond nosecones. Can that shape/size of nosecone not be bought somewhere separately? It's just a 15 cm Ogive, no?

That cone in plastic as supplied by Estes is available nowhere else. Of course, you can get a balsa equivalent from SEMROC and probably BMS etc.. But I personally like the plastic ones. No other in-production kit uses them and they are not sold separately (COME ON, MIKE!!!).

Marc
 
Welcome to the forum!
That's too bad about your rockets. :( Maybe give your address or phone number to the family whose yard the Vagabond cone is in; sooner or later, it'll come down. It may not be usable when it does, but you never know.
This is one of the reasons why you sometimes see rockets with extremely long shock cords. If the cord it longer, then when/if the parachute gets tangled in a tree, you can more easily retrieve the rest of the rocket. Of course, it's true that the nose cone is the most important part of the rocket, mainly because it's the most expensive component. (Unless, of course, you're using Aeropack motor retainers or electronics, but you don't typically encounter that until you get up into larger mid-power or high-power rockets.)
Anyway, have fun, and good luck with your future rockets! If you live near a Michael's craft store or a Hobby Lobby, be sure to check them out. Both carry engines (Hobby Lobby carries kits, too) and both have weekly 40% off coupons available online or in the newspaper.
 
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and compliments on the story. Rocketbuilder, the nosecone can be replaced - the time I spent sanding those fins was much more important to me. I've picked up a couple of replacements, so I can wait until I finds its own way down.

And I'd love to check out Hobby Lobby except
I live in Canada where the model rocketry options are somewhat more limited. Amazon won't even ship kits across the border let alone engines. And we do have Michaels but I've yet to see one that carries any rocketry products. Ditto for Walmart. I get most of my stuff from small hobby shops because by the time you pay shipping for online orders, it's not much of a deal and you have to wait a week or more to boot.

Enough complaints. I have what I need. I'm having fun. That's all that matters.
 
WOW! I needed a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster after reading about your drummer powering up! (and I had to find my Towel!)
You can hook up 440 three phase live...If it isn't under a load! he must have touched ground or the side of the case!
I totally agree with Lou B about adults treating me the little kid as an adult and explaining things to me.
My Parents were cool and taught us a lot, but they were 30 to 40 years older than us and we didn't have that new generation "Friend Bond"
that is so popular with permissive parents now..I am 45 and chuckle when i hear about 30ish year old "Grandparents" Huh!?
Wish I got that lucky when I was 13..

So long! and thanks for the fish!
John
 
Last edited:
Great story, thanks for sharing. Welcome back to the hobby, and TRF!
 
Back
Top