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Meat

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Does anyone here mess with the kno3 propellants ? I have read alot about it recently yet never see anything on here about it .
 

MarkM

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That's because details and specific formulas concerning experimental motors is forbidden discussion here.

Go to Netwon's third or Rocketry Planet if need specifics.

When done right, sugar motors work wonderfully. However, they have much lower ISP than AP so you'll need a bigger casing for the same impulse you'd get with AP.

Also look at Richard Nakka's and Jimmy Yawn's websites. Good info there.
 

Meat

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oh I didnt know it was against the rules here sorry about that. I dont mind the difference I am of the mindset that I like to build things myself and make things cheap safe and fun . I must admit im also keen on the idea of lower cost launch for mid to high power rockets . I have checked out jimmy yawn and richard nakkas stuff just wanting input or expertise from some of the fine minds on this site.
 

Fred22

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oh I didnt know it was against the rules here sorry about that. I dont mind the difference I am of the mindset that I like to build things myself and make things cheap safe and fun . I must admit im also keen on the idea of lower cost launch for mid to high power rockets . I have checked out jimmy yawn and richard nakkas stuff just wanting input or expertise from some of the fine minds on this site.
There is no need for apologies :) It's a good question. We are at present discussing ex in the mod area trying to decide how to handle the subject in a manner that suits board members the best way possible. In the meantime as was stated earlier no formulas remains the norm.
Cheers
fred
 

DRAGON64

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oh I didnt know it was against the rules here sorry about that. I dont mind the difference I am of the mindset that I like to build things myself and make things cheap safe and fun . I must admit im also keen on the idea of lower cost launch for mid to high power rockets . I have checked out jimmy yawn and richard nakkas stuff just wanting input or expertise from some of the fine minds on this site.
The formulas are easy enough to find, as you have seen by visiting Jimmy and Richards sites. But most everything else is good for topic conversation...

For starters, Cheap and safe usually don't go well together, as cheap could be associated with cutting corners (to save a buck). I'm sure you have seen this before, but if you are wanting to save money by making your own motors, then you are entering AMEX for the wrong reasons.

On the other hand, If you are entering AMEX because you want to learn more about the propulsion aspects of rocketry, and want to experience enjoyment while you learn, then these would be considered good reason to further your pursuit (of happiness).

"candy" motors are excellent way to get started in AMEX. Much of the theory and concepts are similar to all solid propellants, it is merely the process of making the propellant that makes it different.

Know what you will be dealing with. Always know the safety issues at hand. Read the Material Safety Data Sheets for each of the products you are researching/dealing with. Above all else, safety is first, and nothing less will be tolerated.

Do you have questions? Are you currently working on anything in particular? Got pics?
 

Meat

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By cheap I dont mean cutting corners I am typically very anal about making sure I have done everything I can to ensure my safety and that of the others around me so cutting corners doesn't really works well there. I have the formulas I have even made a couple of batches with pretty good success . I think most of the point I am at now comes down to how others are using it along with casings and such .I am starting to build the pvc casings from nakkas site this week and wondered what other options there are out there . I have to say when you go to the hardware store buy several feet of pvc a bunch of caps and stump remover they look at you a little funny :)
 

rstaff3

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My 2 cents is that in the long run you'll be much happier buying a commercial reload casing, such a Loki. If you use it enough the marginal cost per flight will be small. And I say Loki over an EX manufacturer since you can also fly certified loads in the same hardware. Finally, the motors fit nicely in standard motor tubes.
 

Meat

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With the comercial reloads do you have to buy a kit with the nozzle and orings each reload ? and if so what do those ussually run ?
 

rstaff3

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With the Loki style cases, you get the case, the graphite nozzle, a forward closure, a nozzle retainer washer, and snap rings. These are all reusable. The loads include washers for the grains and delay train, etc.

To use the casings for EX, you'll need liner stock, casting tube and the o-rings.
 

Meat

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Do you use a plugged end and use another type of recovery with yours?
 

rstaff3

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Yes, I kludged a plug for the ejection well on the forward closure. I'm not nearly sophisticated enough to form a usable delay.
 

rstaff3

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BTW, you should join SugPro or go to the other sites to gather more opinions. I haven't built that many and it's been quite a while now.
 

RangerStl

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So you're saying that there are no regulations barring any average joe from mixing sugar propellant? No licensing or permitting?
 

rstaff3

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I don't think anyone said that. There most certainly are. In my county it is definitely illegal under any circumstances. Once that was clear, I quit EX totally. Plus, once you make a grain, you have to follow BATFE regs. That is, you need a LEUP to transport or use the propellant other than on the property on which it was made. Even if not transported, you would need approved storage to keep the grains. I don't know if motors under 62.5 g would be exempt or not. A question for mainstream sugar maniacs :D
 

DRAGON64

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Loki hardware is nice for AMEX, as you can also use it for Commerical (duh, sorry for stating the obvious). But if your focus is strictly Research, then you could also consider Binder Design hardware...customised designs are sometimes cheaper than the commercial hardware.

As for bulkheads, most research hardware run plugged, as altimeters are to cheap and reliable to rest a successful flight on the shoulders of a dialed-in delay grain.

whether you use PVC, Commercial or custom hardware, know the limits of your hardware, and design with those limits.

Pics, did I mention that research threads also like lots of pics?
 

bobkrech

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If you are maintaining safe manufacturing practices (check out NFPA 1125 for safe manufacturing practices http://www.nfpa.org ), research motor manufacturing is not less expensive than purchasing commercial motors.

If you are interested in Sugar Motors, Richard Nakka's website http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/ and Jimmy Yawn's website http://www.jamesyawn.com/ are good places to start.

The SugarPro forum is an active forum for discussions of sugar motors.

While sugar motors are less powerful than APCP motors, a motor failure is just a dangerous.

You need an explosives permit to legally transport sugar motors from your manufacturing site to your launch site.

You need magazine storage at your manufacturing site for legal storage of your sugar motors.

Local, county or state laws may not permit making sugar motors regardless of your federal explosives permit.

Bob Krech
TRF Propulsion Moderator
 
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