Sugar rockets?

[Bryan Payne]

So is it legal to make sugar rockets in the usa. I've read nfpa 1122 but I'm no lawyer and can't really discern as to if my PVC sugar motor is illegal or not? Anyone know?

 

[Zeus-cat]

I believe it is, but like all homemade rocket motors it can be dangerous to make them. And we don't discuss making motors on this forum.

 

[wjmoser]

So is it legal to make sugar rockets in the usa. I've read nfpa 1122 but I'm no lawyer and can't really discern as to if my PVC sugar motor is illegal or not? Anyone know?

Motor making discussions are in the restricted research section. Go here for access:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/research-forum-access.17943/

 

[djs]

So is it legal to make sugar rockets in the usa. I've read nfpa 1122 but I'm no lawyer and can't really discern as to if my PVC sugar motor is illegal or not? Anyone know?

The answer is yes, no, and maybe? It depends on your local authorities and the laws they have in place. For example, my local county bans "skyrockets" in parks, which I take to mean bottle rockets compared to model rockets. But your locale may have a different law? Obviously making motors is different than burning motors is different than putting said motors in rockets.

 

[Bat-mite]

Pretty sure not illegal to make. Flying them should fall under the same laws as commercial motors of the same impulse class. Flying them at a NAR club launch would be against the rules (no EX), and at a TRA research launch, you would need to be L2 or L3 certified.

FAA law also limits what you can fly without a waiver, based on propellant weight, rocket weight, and/or motor impulse. Same rules for commercial as EX.

 

[rharshberger]

TRA also does not allow PVC motor cases, nor KNSU propellant iirc, KNDX, KNSB are okay just not regular sucrose (table sugar/powdered sugar).

 

[NateB]

Are the sugar comps specifically exempt from the ATF like commercial propellants and consumer grade fireworks are?

My assumption is that it would fall under as an unclassified explosive and subject to the appropriate storage and transportation laws, but I'm not 100% on that. I recall hearing or reading about a case where a team transporting sugar based motors got into some trouble. James Yawn's site has some good information about it.

I think it is a grey area with sugar, but much more concrete with other propellants like black powder. Federally, these things can be made and used on your property provided they are used within 24 hours of manufacturing or stored in an appropriate magazine. State and local laws will vary as well as transporting and using them. This is all outside the scope of this forum and NAR launches.

 

[BDB]

Sugar rockets are legal unless you live somewhere with a local ordinance that supersedes NFPA guidelines. That said, we generally discourage using PVC because it shatters easily.

I make small dry-packed sugar motors in 0.75" polyethylene tubing that is used for irrigation systems. You can buy it at any Home Depot or Lowes. I also make 38 mm KNSU motors and fire them in aluminum snap-ring motor cases (from Loki Research). I'm planning to work my way up to 54 mm and 75 mm motors over the next few years.

 

[cbrarick]

Legal? Depends. Nothing says you can't make them, but once you do you need an explosives user's permit to store them. Transporting by the letter of the law is dicey, too. https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...sives-2017-annual-list-of-explosive-materials If you peruse the list, you will find a specific exemption for ammonium perchlorate composite propellant, thank you Judge Walton. I wonder if writing the exemption caused Mr. Brandon's blood pressure to rise :> Unfortunately KNSU doesn't enjoy this exemption.
Now, in real life...

 

[Uncrichie]

This particular item is on the Explosives List, "Potassium nitrate explosive mixtures". Someone would have to make the determination if sugar motors fall into that category. So who volunteers for the test case?

 

[cbrarick]

nope. nada. I don't play with potentially bad stuff. I'll stay with the confirmed flammable solid. It's got a higher ISP and there are tons of formulas readily available. Not to mention you don't have to melt something to close to it's flash point to process it......

 

[rocket_troy]

...Not to mention you don't have to melt something to close to it's flash point to process it......

Processing is nowhere near that point.

 

[prfesser]

This particular item is on the Explosives List, "Potassium nitrate explosive mixtures". Someone would have to make the determination if sugar motors fall into that category. So who volunteers for the test case?

That item is a fine example of government-agency "thinking". If a mixture is an explosive mixture...then it falls under BATFE's jurisdiction. Doesn't matter one whit whether it contains potassium nitrate or "Liquid A*s".

If I was cynical, I would suspect that the many listings of "XYZ explosive mixtures" in the orange book are intended to imply that any mixture containing XYZ is an explosive mixture. (For KNO3, does that include Sensodyne toothpaste? Just curious.)

Increasingly disgusted with our gummint,
Terry

 

[cbrarick]

Hey 'fesser,

Haven't you heard of the new class action lawsuit on Sensodyne? Seems like it tends to explode on gold crowns.
Apparently the victims are left gape-mouthed and speechless

:>

 

[Uncrichie]

That item is a fine example of government-agency "thinking". If a mixture is an explosive mixture...then it falls under BATFE's jurisdiction. Doesn't matter one whit whether it contains potassium nitrate or "Liquid A*s".

If I was cynical, I would suspect that the many listings of "XYZ explosive mixtures" in the orange book are intended to imply that any mixture containing XYZ is an explosive mixture. (For KNO3, does that include Sensodyne toothpaste? Just curious.)

Increasingly disgusted with our gummint,
Terry

Terry I would like to believe they included the mixture for charging purposes if used for nefarious purpose. However they didn't give any thought about its use as a hobby rocket fuel.