Sugar rocket testing

[heada]

You wont find any "official" published designs. There are lots of designs all over, some safer than others. Read through this and other threads similar to this and you'll find links to various books that will help to give you the knowledge needed to make your own motors. Once you read and understand those, get with a mentor and you'll find making your own motors safely is easy and fun. It wont really be any cheaper which is what most people are going for.

 

[NateB]

It wont really be any cheaper which is what most people are going for.

At my best estimate, my first functional Estes style and sized rocket motor cost about $250.

 

[CaptHaywire]

The best way to make sugar motors is to learn from someone who has experience making them. To do that you will need to take your questions over to the research forum. The words P*C or sugar motor will get you banned in a hurry here.

Before you start posting questions become familiar with the concept of KN. The definition of Kn is the ratio of the burn area of the propellant to the area of the nozzle throat. In addition to that check out Richard Nakka's site and read about different sugars.

Many people have shown interest in sugar motors after watching "The King of Random." That is not the path you want to take in my opinion. A lot of information on the internet where things never die is outdated and questionable as far as safety is concerned. Don't just guesstimate when there is solid information available.

 

[Ez2cDave]

are there any published designs to build estes style motors as sugar engines? Would like to try some sugar rockets for some estes builds I have

Robert

Robert,

I have seen articles where people reloaded expended Estes casings with "Sugar / Candy" propellant. They were doing so, without CATO's. I assume this was because the Sugar propellant has lower Specific Impulse than Black Powder, keeping nozzle throats from being too small and resulting in an over-pressure situation. Of course, the nozzle throat are was not optimized for the new propellant.

Dave F.

 

[prfesser]

Robert,

I have seen articles where people reloaded expended Estes casings with "Sugar / Candy" propellant. They were doing so, without CATO's. I assume this was because the Sugar propellant has lower Specific Impulse than Black Powder, keeping nozzle throats from being too small and resulting in an over-pressure situation. Of course, the nozzle throat are was not optimized for the new propellant.

Dave F.

Dave,
Sugar propellants have a higher specific impulse than BP---about 120 - 135 seconds, vs. 80 s for BP. And sugar propellant motors are usually coreburners, while commercial BP motors are endburners. One reason that re-used casings did not CATO may be that the casing is not significantly exposed to flame until the end of the burn---at which time the pressure has dropped rather a lot, due to tail-off.

Best -- Terry

 

[dhbarr]

The best way to make sugar motors is to learn from someone who has experience making them. To do that you will need to take your questions over to the research forum. The words P*C or sugar motor will get you banned in a hurry here.

I think usually the thread just gets moved, not an account ban.

 

[BDB]

Many people have shown interest in sugar motors after watching "The King of Random." That is not the path you want to take in my opinion. A lot of information on the internet where things never die is outdated and questionable as far as safety is concerned. Don't just guesstimate when there is solid information available.

I agree that the King of Random videos are not an authoritative guide, and probably give the viewer a false sense of confidence. But I have made hundreds of the dry-packed sugar motors like he shows on the video, and I have never seen any dangerous overpresurization events. The nozzle made from compacted kitty litter is a good safety measure. It blows out long before the casing would rupture.

The only modifications I have made are to use polyethylene tubing for the casing, and an e-match for ignition. I do it as an educational outreach with middle schoolers, and it works really well.

 

[rocketman328]

Since the OP seems to have gotten what they needed:



>sigh<



#okayboomer... >smile<

The idea of restricting discussion of propellant formulas does seem a little silly in the face of all of the information that is exchanged in the open on other platforms, except for the signal it sends to the educable.

There are going to be knuckleheads doing knuckle-headed things after watching other knuckleheads' "hey watch this" videos, but a few folks seem drift this way for information and advice on their way to the emergency room. This forum might be where they find out that there are alternatives to roll-your-own motors.

This is not (only) idle speculation: At the club low power launches I have twice met younger-than-me folks who just did not know that you could buy rocket motors. One kid (late teens) showed up with a pretty nice rocket built from scratch that he wanted to fly on a home-brew motor. He was back a month later with lighter rocket and a pack of D12s (which he still couldn't fly on our field, but somebody gave him a C11 and he got in the air).

At a different launch, a family with younger kids came just to watch. They were surprised to see all of the Estes motors. They expected us to be flying on motors made of >formula redacted< or >you do not have sufficient access< because that's what they'd seen on some YouTube channel, and it had not occurred to them to look farther than that.

If you want an antidote to the depressing popularity of the Dudeperfect ninnies -- check out the view counts here

https://www.youtube.com/user/numberphile/featured

"Dudeperfect ninnies"..LOL. I shutter at the thought that newcomers to hobby rocketry would have viewed these ninnies in action and going away expecting that this is hobby rocketry. While they have had a lot of views, I for one was not amused.

 

[Monoxide]

I used to do this as a kid with 3/4" copper pipe in a sand pit outside of town. Fun stuff! Neat trying different formulas.

 

[Long_Gone]

Hello,


I am new to Rocket design, I have a rough background in the science but no experience whatsoever when it comes to designing, building and testing.

I have all I need to make some small scale (3/4 inch diameter, have not defined my length yet) KNO3-Sugar rockets with PVC casing, but I don't know how to go about safely testing the rocket. My only idea so far is to fill a bucket with dirt and place the rocket with exhaust facing upwards, will this suffice or do I need a more sophisticated test rig?

Any thoughts / opinions are appreciated, Thank you!

Tlaltecuhtli,
Get yourself a copy of this book from Amazon and you should be good.
I got and it is great, everything works and nobody gets hurt unless you succumb to the woman and its your feelings that get trampled on.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Hello,


I am new to Rocket design, I have a rough background in the science but no experience whatsoever when it comes to designing, building and testing.

I have all I need to make some small scale (3/4 inch diameter, have not defined my length yet) KNO3-Sugar rockets with PVC casing, but I don't know how to go about safely testing the rocket. My only idea so far is to fill a bucket with dirt and place the rocket with exhaust facing upwards, will this suffice or do I need a more sophisticated test rig?

Any thoughts / opinions are appreciated, Thank you!

PVC is dangerous and forbidden by both certifying groups, and can only be discussed here in the Research forum. If you are US citizen and NAR or TRA HP certified, you can request access to the research forum.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Tlaltecuhtli,
Get yourself a copy of this book from Amazon and you should be good.
I got and it is great, everything works and nobody gets hurt unless you succumb to the woman and its your feelings that get trampled on.

If you go that route ( PVC casings), be advised that PVC is very "frangible" ( think "shrapnel" ) . . .

Also, from what I have read online, PVC fragments are not easily visible in X-rays.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rocketry/comments/p3df2k/ive_heard_some_people_say_not_to_use_pvc_for_the

I have also read that modern X-ray equipment has no difficulty seeing PVC, but I have no confirmation.
https://www.spudfiles.com/viewtopic.php?t=19888

Dave F.

 

[rcktnut]

????? OP gone for long time already, maybe blowed up by now.

 

[Ez2cDave]

????? OP gone for long time already, maybe blowed up by now.

I saw that, but felt the follow-up info about PVC should be posted, for whomever reads this thread in the future.