Successful Level 1 (or 2 and 3) certification launch and recovery requirements for passing

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Reminds me of taking Ham Radio test for the three levels, and you end up having to learn the answers to 1400 questions in the test pool. You can take all three tests on the same day without ever having touched a radio or keyed a microphone
Oh yeah! Forgot about HAM tests!
Been there! Although I have not done my Extra yet, I *could have* done it immediately following my General, as I did *know* the answers. But I remember thinking that at the time I didn't comfortably *understand* the Extra material so I declined. One of these days Ill get my Extra.

KC7JLP!
 
Having a perfect flight and recovery then the rocket almost gets trampled in a cattle stampede.

Cert-1 flight at High Frontiers, Pawhuska OK.
 
Having a perfect flight and recovery then the rocket almost gets trampled in a cattle stampede.

Cert-1 flight at High Frontiers, Pawhuska OK.
My first Cert-1 attempt I managed to somehow land in a pond at Leonard. Didn't even know there -was- a pond at Leonard, but a fin popped off when the nice fellas that live there fished it out and tossed it in the bed of their truck. I was grateful to get it back, motor casing and all.
 
Over the years I have witnessed more NAR Jr level 1, level 1, and level 2 certification than I can count.
The only changes I would make would be to apply the Jr L1 test to all level 1 certifications and require that a rocket can only be used for certification at one level.

I think everyone flying high power should demonstrate a mastery of the basic knowledge involved before their first flight.

I don't think we should certify someone to level 2 who has built one rocket and flown it twice. I haven't been able to think of any other reasonable ways to require some experience before moving up.

Yes, in ham radio you can test straight to Amateur Extra without ever being in the same room as a radio, but I have never seen a ham radio crash through the roof of a house, car, or motor home.

My two cents worth, refunds available on request.
 
I agree, keep it simple then you have a better chance to pass. After level 2, you need to dual deployment before level 3. So then push your limits and learn from your failures.

Slight nitpick, you don't have to use dual-deployment, you just have to use any kind of electronic-controlled deployment, so a single deployment qualifies as long as it was electronically activated.

As an example, we have a guy in MDRA who flies rockets weighing hundreds of pounds that only go up to the 800-1000 foot range on high-thrust, fast-burn M motors, and his rockets usually just have a single deployment event at apogee.
 
Slight nitpick, you don't have to use dual-deployment, you just have to use any kind of electronic-controlled deployment, so a single deployment qualifies as long as it was electronically activated.

As an example, we have a guy in MDRA who flies rockets weighing hundreds of pounds that only go up to the 800-1000 foot range on high-thrust, fast-burn M motors, and his rockets usually just have a single deployment event at apogee.

Slightly more nitpicky, the electronic deployment must be redundant.
 
I agree, keep it simple then you have a better chance to pass. After level 2, you need to dual deployment before level 3. So then push your limits and learn from your failures.

You don't need to be level 1 or 2 to start doing dual deployment with either like a chute release or electronic. You can do that on mid power rockets quite easily.

Not advocating one way or another about DD on level 1 or 2.
 
You don't need to be level 1 or 2 to start doing dual deployment with either like a chute release or electronic. You can do that on mid power rockets quite easily.

Not advocating one way or another about DD on level 1 or 2.
I recommend student flyers that I work with try electronics with either Level 1or 2 rockets...the EggTimer Apogee and other small and inexpensive deployment electronics can serve as either primary or backup to motor eject. In trying to figure out motor eject delays, an electronic apogee deployment gets it very close to apogee and adding a second or two to the motor eject estimated time allows it to be used as a backup to the electronics.
 
I recommend student flyers that I work with try electronics with either Level 1or 2 rockets...the EggTimer Apogee and other small and inexpensive deployment electronics can serve as either primary or backup to motor eject. In trying to figure out motor eject delays, an electronic apogee deployment gets it very close to apogee and adding a second or two to the motor eject estimated time allows it to be used as a backup to the electronics.

Level 1 and 2 motors are expensive. Why not mid-power motors? Get more practice that way.
 
Level 1 and 2 motors are expensive. Why not mid-power motors? Get more practice that way.
Level 1 and 2 motors are expensive. Why not mid-power motors? Get more practice that way.
I should have said 'try electronics for their L-1 and 2 certs'. I get lots of students and others that want to get their L-1 and 2 with just a kit and two single use motors without ever having flown before. I launched countless A-G and larger motors, both commercial and ex before getting my L-1 & 2. Mentored and advised many student teams and if it was permitted, would liked my TARC teams to have been able to use electronics for apogee deployment on their mid power rockets instead of relying only on motor eject.

I've seen a several get their L-3 with just a few launches...only three successful flights are required to get a L-3. I once asked a team who their mentor(s) were and when I asked them how many rockets they have launched the L-1 mentor said one and their L-2 mentor said two rockets.
 
Thank you for the reply, I know I don't need a dual deploy, but if I want to go over a mile high in honor of my father, then dual deploy means I don't have as far to go to find it, and a better chance of not losing it out of bounds. And I love the challenge.
 
I should have said 'try electronics for their L-1 and 2 certs'. I get lots of students and others that want to get their L-1 and 2 with just a kit and two single use motors without ever having flown before. I launched countless A-G and larger motors, both commercial and ex before getting my L-1 & 2. Mentored and advised many student teams and if it was permitted, would liked my TARC teams to have been able to use electronics for apogee deployment on their mid power rockets instead of relying only on motor eject.

I've seen a several get their L-3 with just a few launches...only three successful flights are required to get a L-3. I once asked a team who their mentor(s) were and when I asked them how many rockets they have launched the L-1 mentor said one and their L-2 mentor said two rockets.
Thank you for the reply, this is my second launch, after a successful Level 1 Launch. I launched 100's of times since I was a young kid, Estes Rockets, a few with my daughter and some with friends and their kids. I have about a dozen that I let younger users use.
 
I should have said 'try electronics for their L-1 and 2 certs'. I get lots of students and others that want to get their L-1 and 2 with just a kit and two single use motors without ever having flown before. I launched countless A-G and larger motors, both commercial and ex before getting my L-1 & 2. Mentored and advised many student teams and if it was permitted, would liked my TARC teams to have been able to use electronics for apogee deployment on their mid power rockets instead of relying only on motor eject.

I've seen a several get their L-3 with just a few launches...only three successful flights are required to get a L-3. I once asked a team who their mentor(s) were and when I asked them how many rockets they have launched the L-1 mentor said one and their L-2 mentor said two rockets.
Thank you, this is my second high powered launch, a lot of low powered rockets. I used to believe a C-65 was the best engine ever when I flew the Alpha II.
 
I recommend student flyers that I work with try electronics with either Level 1or 2 rockets...the EggTimer Apogee and other small and inexpensive deployment electronics can serve as either primary or backup to motor eject. In trying to figure out motor eject delays, an electronic apogee deployment gets it very close to apogee and adding a second or two to the motor eject estimated time allows it to be used as a backup to the electronics.
Thank you
 
Since you are way out west, I would suggest you talk to folks out your way on what type of recovery to use, motor ejection, DD, etc. and when to use them at what altitudes.
As an east coast flier, I would suggest using DD any time you go over about 2000 ft AGL. You might want to do that just to get the practice for when you really need it. Same with a tracker.

Have fun!
 
These are pictures of the rocket I launch for my Level 2 Certification. It is a tribute to my father who supported me in rocketry from when I was a kid with Estes, to my high powered launches. He passed away May 2, 2023 and it is honor to celebrate him and reach for the starr.
 

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My experience for my level one flight was
Since you are way out west, I would suggest you talk to folks out your way on what type of recovery to use, motor ejection, DD, etc. and when to use them at what altitudes.
As an east coast flier, I would suggest using DD any time you go over about 2000 ft AGL. You might want to do that just to get the practice for when you really need it. Same with a tracker.

Have fun!
Where do you fly at in the East? A parachute release is another opinion. I'm doing the same with L1, going to experiment with those motors and DD..I think DD and 2000 feet is about right for the east. I'm lucky enough I think at our field we can get away with about 3500 to 4000 if the winds are calm.
 
In a previous post, I added a video of a L1 flight where the chute did not fully deploy and the rocket steamered down. The NAR form says "Recovery system deployed". It doesn't say fully deployed so I guess if the chute is tangled, it's good as long as the rocket could be prepped and relaunched with minimal work. Thoughts?
 
My experience for my level one flight was

Where do you fly at in the East? A parachute release is another opinion. I'm doing the same with L1, going to experiment with those motors and DD..I think DD and 2000 feet is about right for the east. I'm lucky enough I think at our field we can get away with about 3500 to 4000 if the winds are calm.
I fly at BattlePark in VA mostly. It's my home field.

3500 to 4000 is pushing it on apogee eject of the main on our field. Even calm winds at the surface of 3 or 4 mph, it can be 10 - 15 mph at 1500 ft and 20 - 30 mph at 3000 ft. On a couple of rare occasions we had 5 mph surface winds and 0 - 2 mph upper level winds.
All the rockets I've flown in the 5 - 10 years are all DD or JLCR and have worked well, but I've flown this field for 20 years now and know how to fly the field. It's why I never load motors the night before. Av-bay charges get loaded the night before, but motors are chosen depending on the conditions that day.
 
In a previous post, I added a video of a L1 flight where the chute did not fully deploy and the rocket steamered down. The NAR form says "Recovery system deployed". It doesn't say fully deployed so I guess if the chute is tangled, it's good as long as the rocket could be prepped and relaunched with minimal work. Thoughts?
OH NO!!! Not Again!! I reposted it here in this thread, post #106 https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/certification-pass-or-fail.182989/

Again if cert team said pass I say pass. If I was on the cert team it would also be pass. Others will disagree.
 
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In a previous post, I added a video of a L1 flight where the chute did not fully deploy and the rocket steamered down. The NAR form says "Recovery system deployed". It doesn't say fully deployed so I guess if the chute is tangled, it's good as long as the rocket could be prepped and relaunched with minimal work. Thoughts?
Yea....give it a rest!
 
Over the years, I've seen different things that have either been ok or not ok for getting your cert on a flight depending on the person(s) observing the flight. Some have said if the rocket can be launched again, some have said with 'minimal damage' some have said zippers are ok, some have said...

I'd like some opinions to a few things that have happened on launches as to being ok for passing:

Wrong delay, hard recovery, broken fin.

Parachute doesn't deploy but rocket not damaged.

Fin(s) break off on landing.

Nose cone separates from rest of rocket.

Motor retention fails but everything is undamaged.

I'd like to get opinions on whether these would still pass for certifications, feel free to add other anomalies.
There are two certification agencies; Tripoli and NAR
Your can easily find their certification requirements on the internet
Successful certification requirements are clearly defined in these documents
 
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