Successful Level 1 (or 2 and 3) certification launch and recovery requirements for passing

[boatgeek]

In a previous post, I added a video of a L1 flight where the chute did not fully deploy and the rocket steamered down. The NAR form says "Recovery system deployed". It doesn't say fully deployed so I guess if the chute is tangled, it's good as long as the rocket could be prepped and relaunched with minimal work. Thoughts?

Depends on whether the certification team thinks that it came down slowly enough to be a safe flight. That’s nearly impossible to second guess from afar.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Depends on whether the certification team thinks that it came down slowly enough to be a safe flight. That’s nearly impossible to second guess from afar.

In my opinion, I didn’t think it was a pass because it looked like they didn’t pack the chute properly and descended quickly. I bring it up since I might want to certify others in the future. Isn’t this the point of this thread? If not, my apologies.

 

[rcktnut]

In my opinion, I didn’t think it was a pass because it looked like they didn’t pack the chute properly and descended quickly. I bring it up since I might want to certify others in the future. Isn’t this the point of this thread? If not, my apologies.

Of course this is the right thread. This thread and another have been currently circulating on the subject. The video with the girl, the chute did not fully inflate no damage to rocket, and in the other thread the gentlemans chute inflated but the fin bolts broke on landing like he designed it to do. Both cert teams passed the flights.
I've been on a cert team 3 times and fortunately never had to contemplate whether to pass or not pass because all 3 flights were perfect. I would have passed the 2 flights in question here.
These were both landing related incidents after chute deployment, with what should be properly sized chutes determined by cert team. In all cases before or right at deployment if something goes wrong it would be a fail. Unstable, motor cato, shred, separation, large zipper, etc. all fail. Once the chute is out and the rocket lands without doing any damage to anything else besides minor to itself: PASS If a rocket with a properly sized chute inflated and would land on the only rock in a soft sod field and break a fin: PASS.
I see it this way if a 2 or 3 lb. rocket should be landing at 25fps max. shouldn't a 50lb.+ rocket be landing like at maybe1/2 a fps or slower???

If your on a team the discretion is up to you.

 

[FredA]

I've been on a cert team 3 times

What the heck is a "cert team?"
Certs are individual events.....no team involved.
The poster is an L2, so not a TAP team.
Something weird with this post.............

 

[rcktnut]

What the heck is a "cert team?"
Certs are individual events.....no team involved.
The poster is an L2, so not a TAP team.
Something weird with this post.............

It's who's signing off/ witnessing the cert attempt:
HPR LEVEL 1 CHECKLIST (Certification Team—Use this section for Level 1 Certification Attempts.)
HPR Cert. Level Form MUST be signed by Certification Applicant and Certification Team

 

[MikeT]

What the heck is a "cert team?"
Certs are individual events.....no team involved.
The poster is an L2, so not a TAP team.
Something weird with this post.............

Really? Read the requirements. It's who signs off on the attempt.

 

[FredA]

Really? Read the requirements. It's who signs off on the attempt

Never heard of a singular person who is the signatory on the cert as being a TEAM.
Guess there is an "I" in team these days.

 

[MikeT]

Never heard of a singular person who is the signatory on the cert as being a TEAM.
Guess there is an "I" in team these days.

LOL. Take that up with NAR and Tripoli. It is what it is even if you don't agree.

 

[86mustang408w]

I fly at BattlePark in VA mostly. It's my home field.

3500 to 4000 is pushing it on apogee eject of the main on our field. Even calm winds at the surface of 3 or 4 mph, it can be 10 - 15 mph at 1500 ft and 20 - 30 mph at 3000 ft. On a couple of rare occasions we had 5 mph surface winds and 0 - 2 mph upper level winds.
All the rockets I've flown in the 5 - 10 years are all DD or JLCR and have worked well, but I've flown this field for 20 years now and know how to fly the field. It's why I never load motors the night before. Av-bay charges get loaded the night before, but motors are chosen depending on the conditions that day.

Oh awesome, thank you for sharing that. I just got back into Rocketry. I've been looking for clubs to either go watch, and even join and fly too.

I'm new to high power but agree as well I chose the motor when I got there I had no clue what the conditions would be. They had a few good flights pretty high and most recovered. That helped me to decide, and also to use the chute release. It means so much to me just to go and watch, and just listen. Responses/replies like this help me too, I'm doing my best to keep notes. Just for information nobody specific. Thanks again, I'll check out your club!

Michael B.

 

[86mustang408w]

OH NO!!! Not Again!! I reposted it here in this thread, post #106 https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/certification-pass-or-fail.182989/

Again if cert team said pass I say pass. If I was on the cert team it would also be pass. Others will disagree.

Yeah that post has some interesting opinions. I would agree with you, it would be a pass. But I'll stop after this, for the life of me couldnt figure out why you'd use nylon screws for that fin design. Unless he wanted a break-away fin design in case of a failure. It made sense to have the screws the weakest link, and it saved the fin. Had they been metal screws that fin probably would have broken, I would think.

 

[sharkbait]

Never heard of a singular person who is the signatory on the cert as being a TEAM.
Guess there is an "I" in team these days.

Again, not familiar with the NAR rules, but Tripoli L1 & L2 certifying procedures do not have a team, it is listed as a single certifying member ie prefect, L3, TAP

 

[boatgeek]

In my opinion, I didn’t think it was a pass because it looked like they didn’t pack the chute properly and descended quickly. I bring it up since I might want to certify others in the future. Isn’t this the point of this thread? If not, my apologies.

I'm not casting shade at you, just saying that I couldn't make that decision over video. The point where descent speed becomes "not a safe flight" is really fuzzy for me. Being totally honest, it also depends on how much the flyer seems to have it together.

What the heck is a "cert team?"
Certs are individual events.....no team involved.
The poster is an L2, so not a TAP team.
Something weird with this post.............

At least in NAR, the paperwork talks about the certification team, presumably because you have the option of having two L1s witness an L1 flight or two L2s witness an L2 flight.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Again, not familiar with the NAR rules, but Tripoli L1 & L2 certifying procedures do not have a team, it is listed as a single certifying member ie prefect, L3, TAP

For L1 and L2 in the NAR, the certification procedure allows it to be done by two members as long as one already certified to the level being sought by the candidate.
Here’s the wording in the NAR rules:

3. Certification Teams

1. The Certification Team consists of two individuals who are a minimum of 18 years old and are members in good standing of the NAR. The Certification Team members must be unrelated to the applicant. Members of Tripoli, unless they are also members of the NAR, cannot participate on a Certification Team.
2. At least one of the Certification Team members must be already certified to a level equal to the certification level being attempted, e.g., a Certification Team member must be certified at Level 1 to judge another individual’s Level 1 certification attempt.
3. Level 1 certifications may be administered by a single NAR Level 2 certified individual; the two certified individuals’ requirement in Section 3.1 is waived in this case.
4. Certification attempts must be witnessed in person by the Certification Team. Video recordings of a certification flight are not acceptable.