Student Moon Shot Questions

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by SpaceShot2018, Dec 14, 2018.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 14, 2018 #1

    SpaceShot2018

    SpaceShot2018

    SpaceShot2018

    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hello Space Enthusiasts!


    My name is James and 12 of my friends from my introduction to aerospace class were chatting. We thought to ourselves, why has a student group not gone to space yet? The severe lack of motivation from our peers that is going to slow down the industry. The moon landing was almost 50 years ago. Why haven't we been back? WE ARE GOING TO FIX THAT. My friends and I have assembled a plan to put a small rover on the moon by 2022 for our senior design project. But not only are we going to simply land, we are going to bring the rover back! Peter, our robotics guy, will be handling the rover, but this thread is going to be all about rockets!


    We made a timeline and we promised ourselves to sacrifice whatever it takes to achieve it. First step, 2019. Our plan will be to develop a fully reusable bi-propellant liquid rocket by the end of this semester. Hence, Spaceshot2019. Since we are only taking about 16 credits a piece, we should be fine. Since we are going to be smart about our steps the first vehicle, Von Brawn 1, will utilize high test hydrogen peroxide and kerosene. This is that we eliminate any need for cryogenic equipment to get our feet wet. The rocket will have about a 400 psi chamber pressure and produce 11000 lbf of thrust. John is working on the pumps and we are going to utilize a gas generator cycle like the V2. The rocket should be able to carry about 100-120 kg of payload and weight anywhere in a range of 1800-1950 pounds.


    Step two is orbit. Major companies today like Virgin Galatica are using planes to launch rockets into space. But what if we got rid of the plane? Over the past week we have developed a concept to use a balloon to launch a rocket off of directly into orbit. Andrew, Bartholomew, and James are on this sub team and should be able to fly a "level 3" rocket off of it as proof of concept and for the pregame show for this year's spaceshot. This will save us thousands of dollars and loads of deltaV.


    Step three is of course the moon! Thomas and Simon are going to talk to one of the professors next week to gauge what exact maneuvers we will need to get there. We also need a lot of power that is light weight to get there. After our preliminary trade study we have gone with liquid fluorine-nitric acid for our main rocket fuel. It is mind blowing no one has used this stuff yet! An engine of this magnitude will put South Hampton Institute of Technology on the MAP.


    That is all the public details for now but I have just a few questions.

    1. Where does SpaceX buy their turbo pumps? I can't find it anywhere...
    2. Will there be a loss in performance using said pumps for H202 or Fluorine?
    3. Our school has given us a budget of $850. We obviously need more than that to go to space. How fast do you think it will take to crowdfund our goal of $10,000
    4. Does anyone have contact info for UCSD, Michigan, or Purdue's teams? We are looking to recruit people and potential customers.
    5. How much DeltaV loss should we expect from our thrust vectoring system?
    6. Is moon dust poisonous? When we get the rover back do we need to wear suits?
    7. Does anyone have a good book on orbital transfers?
    8. One forum we found said that Kerbal Space Program uses real physics. Can we just import our engine to the software? How accurate is this?
    9. How long does it take for an FAA waiver? We want to be proactive and get one ASAP.
    10. Who is Karmen and what does the line mean? We don't want to cross any lines without permission from authority and local governments.

    LOOK OUT FOR OUR GOFUNDME SOON.


    Thanks -South Hampton Institute of Technology Space Squad
     
    ThirstyBarbarian likes this.
  2. Dec 14, 2018 #2

    0011001100

    0011001100

    0011001100

    A Person

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Northern VA
    This alone shows that you don't have the basic understandings to even launch a rocket to space, let alone land on the moon and come back.
     
    Ben Martin and grouch like this.
  3. Dec 14, 2018 #3

    grouch

    grouch

    grouch

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    3,406
    Likes Received:
    400
    Oh boy this is going to be fun. Heck, it's been a couple of years since the last rockoon thread but this one is several times the magnitude. Heck moon for $10K? Why not?
     
  4. Dec 14, 2018 #4

    TBob

    TBob

    TBob

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    S.H.I.T. !! LOL...whats the school mascot?
     
    Buckeye, 0011001100 and Cnorm like this.
  5. Dec 14, 2018 #5

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    84
    SpaceX gets their turbo pumps from Sharper Image.

    True story.
     
  6. Dec 14, 2018 #6

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    84
    You should hear their fight song!
     
    Exactimator and TBob like this.
  7. Dec 14, 2018 #7

    TBob

    TBob

    TBob

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Pretty sure I've heard that one ;)
     
    Cnorm likes this.
  8. Dec 14, 2018 #8

    les

    les

    les

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,429
    Likes Received:
    61
    Really? South Hampton Institute of Technology Space Squad(SHI##S)

    So what kind of joke is this?
     
  9. Dec 14, 2018 #9

    MattJL

    MattJL

    MattJL

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    I really hope that this is a joke post, otherwise I have many questions.

    When I was a young'un, I tried to design my own little moon shot. In my defense, I was between 13 and 15 at the time, and didn't fully grasp the sheer complexity that went into something like that. Heck, I'm involved in a space shot (just up to 330k feet), and I feel like the technological complexity of that is almost beyond my understanding.

    If you're serious, please consider researching the Apollo program to get a better perspective on the management end of things. I recommend "Stages to Saturn" and "Moon Launch!" both of which are available on Amazon. $10k is very far from enough to pull off a project as ambitious as this. You may want to consider scaling things back to, say, a lander that rides on someone else's rocket, and multiply your timescales and budget by an order of magnitude.
     
  10. Dec 14, 2018 #10

    Zeus-cat

    Zeus-cat

    Zeus-cat

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    307
    I don't want to rain on your parade, but what you are proposing is incredibly expensive and difficult. I seriously doubt the FAA will grant you permission to launch a large rocket from a balloon without massive amounts of paperwork and years of analysis. This idea has been around for a while and I don't know how far people have actually taken it.
     
  11. Dec 14, 2018 #11

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Location:
    Butte, Montana
    Good one!
     
    Jmhepworth likes this.
  12. Dec 14, 2018 #12

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Cnorm

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    84
    Here's a handy educational documentary for reference.

     
    snrkl and MattJL like this.
  13. Dec 14, 2018 #13

    jsdemar

    jsdemar

    jsdemar

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    2,139
    Likes Received:
    212
    "Mr. Spock, Analysis?"

    "Fascinating, Captain. Star Fleet Command does not have a record of any contributions to the human race from a group with that name."
     
  14. Dec 14, 2018 #14

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    260
    The line was named after aviation pioneer and spy Karmen San Diego. As noted in another recent thread, no one is exactly sure where in the world it is.
     
    Tyler P, dhbarr, muddymooose and 2 others like this.
  15. Dec 14, 2018 #15

    Ben Martin

    Ben Martin

    Ben Martin

    "That guy in the hall building a rocket"

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston
    Is this a joke?

    If not, this is very concerning.
     
    MattJL and 0011001100 like this.
  16. Dec 14, 2018 #16

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Location:
    Butte, Montana
    Of course it’s a joke. Didn’t you read the last line?
    Also, they’re named after the apostles.
    Everything about it was hilarious.
     
    MattJL likes this.
  17. Dec 14, 2018 #17

    Exactimator

    Exactimator

    Exactimator

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    53
    My accountant said i shouldn't pay money into gofundme accounts. Will you accept a coupon for a free hug?
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  18. Dec 14, 2018 #18

    Ben Martin

    Ben Martin

    Ben Martin

    "That guy in the hall building a rocket"

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston
    There were countless clues throughout it that it was a joke, I was just making sure.
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  19. Dec 14, 2018 #19

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,086
    Likes Received:
    663
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pasco, WA
    And the acronym for the South Hampton Institute Technology....S.H.I.T...

    Now which one of our little jokesters is it? Could this be the OCF boys? Who knows....
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  20. Dec 14, 2018 #20

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    260
    Should have paid attention in catechism class. That sailed right by me.

    ".. James and 12 ... friends...". Wonder what part of the project lucky number 13 will be handling? God is their co-pilot?
     
    Steve Shannon and MattJL like this.
  21. Dec 14, 2018 #21

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Location:
    Butte, Montana
    I laughed out loud about Karman and not wanting to cross any lines!
     
    jsdemar and grouch like this.
  22. Dec 14, 2018 #22

    JStarStar

    JStarStar

    JStarStar

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    49
    Sounded like the Pakleds.

    Building things that go.
     
    Nytrunner likes this.
  23. Dec 14, 2018 #23

    MikeyDSlagle

    MikeyDSlagle

    MikeyDSlagle

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    104
    Ha at first I thought it was a serious post from the guys(s) who had that god-awful rocket balloon sketch on ...was it gofundme or kickstarter..Or the one with the two stage sugar motor and AP and CP motor...Or the one with the full scale V2 who said "This is happening!" Wonder where he got off to. o_O

    "Hence, SpaceShot2019" when in fact their name is SpaceShot2018
    S.H.I.T was used in the movie Accepted. It was South Harmon on the movie though. Funny movie.

    I was a little bummed that it wasn't real though. I was going to sell them my excess DeltaV at a premium!
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  24. Dec 14, 2018 #24

    Steven

    Steven

    Steven

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,025
    Likes Received:
    55
    Is this the Red Green Show?
     
    OverTheTop likes this.
  25. Dec 14, 2018 #25

    rfjustin

    rfjustin

    rfjustin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    NW Chicago Burbs
    Ha! Well done... :)
     
    grouch likes this.
  26. Dec 14, 2018 #26

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    260
    " Von Brawn 1" isn't a bad idea for name (except, of course, for the associations with slave labor and tons of high explosives dropped onto civilians) .

    I am guessing that somewhere, someone, has a paper towel tube rocket called "The Von Brawny"

    I was hooked until about the middle of the second paragraph. The weirdly specific technical details were actually pitch-perfect for this kind of post, but it is hard to simulate the right degree of cluelessness without signaling that you know what you are getting wrong.
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  27. Dec 14, 2018 #27

    DAllen

    DAllen

    DAllen

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,160
    Likes Received:
    196
    Omg people

    Obvious troll is obvious
     
    Steve Shannon likes this.
  28. Dec 15, 2018 #28

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,086
    Likes Received:
    663
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pasco, WA
    This is not a troll, read through our responses to the OP and it quickly becomes obvious one of our own is having some fun.
     
  29. Dec 15, 2018 #29

    blackbrandt

    blackbrandt

    blackbrandt

    That Darn College Student

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    9,123
    Likes Received:
    29
    OK I'd like to let the record show that this is NOT me.
     
    BDB likes this.
  30. Dec 15, 2018 #30

    MattJL

    MattJL

    MattJL

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Any chance you have a link to that rockoon sketch? I'm interested, in a morbid sense.
     

Share This Page