Stock LOC Big Nuke 3E on AT M1350?

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billdz

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My Big Nuke 3E is my only rocket with a 75mm motor mount, and I'd like to fly it on an M1350. Even though this is a stock, cardboard rocket, I've seen threads on this forum indicating that it can handle a small M. My sim indicates that 1.3kg of nose cone weight would be needed to keep the rocket stable with the M1350.

Anyone tried this? Any thoughts?
 

Five

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There probably are a lot of people who tried that before. Go ahead and post a video of it once you decide to launch it.
 

BSNW

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If built properly (and even using wood glue!), you can fly a wood and paper rocket like this on that baby M.

My L3 was made from standard LOC parts and had no fiberglass. I used the M1350 and it even went Mach 1.2 with no issues. Just make sure it balances out properly and you are good to go.

Many folks have, and do, fly wood and paper rockets on M and M+ motors. The only real modification I would suggest would be to line the booster with coupler(s).

Have fun!
Andrew
 

Theory

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If built properly (and even using wood glue!), you can fly a wood and paper rocket like this on that baby M.
110.77% correct!

i have absolutely hammered some LOC cardboard/wood rockets that were 100% glass free, and they performed perfectly.

let it rip!
 

billdz

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If built properly (and even using wood glue!), you can fly a wood and paper rocket like this on that baby M.

My L3 was made from standard LOC parts and had no fiberglass. I used the M1350 and it even went Mach 1.2 with no issues. Just make sure it balances out properly and you are good to go.
110.77% correct!

i have absolutely hammered some LOC cardboard/wood rockets that were 100% glass free, and they performed perfectly.
Thanks for the replies, I may give it a go.

I've been trying to figure out a good, non-permanent way of adding the required 1.3kg of forward weight. Any ideas? If I just fill the NC with glue and BBs, it will be overstable with smaller motors. I usually fly it on J or K motors.
 

Theory

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LOC has their RNWS for just this scenario.

never used it personally, but it looks like it would work well.

I am thinking of something similar for my current project where I can use some "loaded" 38mm tubes of various weights that i can anchor inside my nose cone. My set-up uses a threaded screw eye through a bulk head to I have "thread" to mount too.

Bet you can fabricate something similar for a LOC nose cone.
 

billdz

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LOC has their RNWS for just this scenario.
....
Bet you can fabricate something similar for a LOC nose cone.
Yes, that RNWS looks like a good system. I'd prefer some DIY solution but will buy it if all else fails.
 

mikec

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I use variable numbers of fender washers on a long eyebolt that's held to the stock plastic base of the nose cone with a toggle bolt anchor. But it's hard to get more than about 6 oz of extra ballast this way, and it's not efficiently near the tip of the NC. Building your own RNWS-like thing would be easy enough.
 

BSNW

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I was reluctant to get the LOC Removable Nose Weight System at first. After you get one, you will LOVE it! You can easily adjust the weight, use less weight as it is positioned at the tip of nose cone. I also use mine as place to put my tracker! Plenty of room! It is so worth it.

GREAT product.
Andrew
 

mikec

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don't have the tools to make a DIY version myself.
I think you could build something usable with stock centering rings and bulkplates. Get a 7.5inch 54mm centering ring, cut the base of the cone off, glue a section of 54mm MMT long enough to reach the top of the cone to the ring, glue into cone, cover with 7.5 inch bulkplate. Add ballast in plastic bags or something similar.
 

bschultz32

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DSCN3023.JPG


I'll add my voice to those who have praised the LOC RNWS. I configured mine so it can use multiple combinations of weights. I have two weight cartridges, one that weighs 8 ounces, another that weighs 16 ounces. So I have four options for nose cone ballast: 0 ounces, 8 ounces, 16 ounces, or 24 ounces. I might need all 24 when I fly my stretched LOC Mega-Magg at LDRS 39 on a big ol' heavy L motor!
Bob Schultz
 

billdz

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View attachment 462968

I'll add my voice to those who have praised the LOC RNWS. I configured mine so it can use multiple combinations of weights. I have two weight cartridges, one that weighs 8 ounces, another that weighs 16 ounces. So I have four options for nose cone ballast: 0 ounces, 8 ounces, 16 ounces, or 24 ounces. I might need all 24 when I fly my stretched LOC Mega-Magg at LDRS 39 on a big ol' heavy L motor!
Bob Schultz
It looks like I will need almost 50 ounces in the NC. What is the max the RNWS can take?

Even with all that added weight, the sim indicates the Big Nuke 3E will go above mach 1 on the M1350.
 

bschultz32

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The LOC RNWS will easily handle 50 ounces. That's just a tad more than three of my Dixie-cup 16-ounce cartridges (see photo). Good luck passing through Max Q!
Bob Schultz
 

billdz

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The LOC RNWS will easily handle 50 ounces. That's just a tad more than three of my Dixie-cup 16-ounce cartridges (see photo). Good luck passing through Max Q!
Bob Schultz
If I understand your photo correctly, instead of epoxying both bulkheads to the weight cartridge, as the instructions say to do, you have only epoxied the top bulkhead and are using an all-thread to attach the bottom bulkhead and your dixie-cup weights? If assembled per the instructions, there is only one fixed amount of added weight?
 

bschultz32

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"you have only epoxied the top bulkhead and are using an all-thread to attach the bottom bulkhead and your dixie-cup weights?" - correct. I didn't follow the directions because restricting yourself to only one fixed amount of added weight is a bad idea. By fabricating just two Dixie-cup weights I have given myself the four options detailed above. If I fabricate one or two additional weight cartridges, my options will expand significantly.
What you called an all-thread is actually a 316 stainless steel shoulder eye bolt, 3/8" diameter, 12 inches long, manufactured by US Cargo Control. It being an eye bolt gives you a loop to fasten your shock cord to. I bought mine through Amazon: Stainless Steel Type 316 Shoulder Eye Bolts - Long - 3/8" x 12" - - Amazon.com.
Good luck!
Bob Schultz
 

billdz

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By fabricating just two Dixie-cup weights I have given myself the four options detailed above. If I fabricate one or two additional weight cartridges, my options will expand significantly.
What you called an all-thread is actually a 316 stainless steel shoulder eye bolt, 3/8" diameter, 12 inches long, manufactured by US Cargo Control.
Very clever! What's inside those dixie cups? I guess good hardware isn't cheap, $35 for that eye bolt. But a small price to pay if a cheap one would break and send the NC crashing to the ground.
 

bschultz32

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DSCN3091.JPG
DSCN3095.JPG


A couple close-up photos of the "Dixie cup" weight cartridges. In the center is a short chunk of 1/2" copper tubing I had in my shop; it's the hole the 3.8" shoulder eye bolt passes through. The weight is provided by a slurry I made of bird shot and epoxy. Finished weight of the left cartridge is 8 ounces, right cartridge 16 ounces. They ain't pretty, but that's okay, they're tucked up inside the nose cone, nobody can see them anyway. They just need to be functional, and they work great.
The eye bolt is marine-grade 316 stainless steel. That means it has a skosh of molybdenum added that makes it particularly resistant to corrosion. It will be around long after all of us are gone.
Bob Schultz
 

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billdz

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Awesome, the creativity of people of this forum never ceases to amaze me.
 

bschultz32

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"the creativity of people of this forum never ceases to amaze me" - billdz, I feel the same way about some of the things I've seen here on The Rocketry Forum. Two follow-on comments:
1.) Someone at LOC/Precision deserves an attaboy for developing the RNWS in the first place. Brilliant.
2.) I'm a university-degreed engineer. My adult daughter sometimes good-naturedly kids me about some character traits I have that she perceives as classically stereotypical of 'engineer types'. And she talks about some of the positive traits that "creative" people (artists, musicians, writers, etc.) have that engineers supposedly don't have. My response to her is that some of the most creative people I've ever met are engineers. We imagine, we problem-solve, we design, we BUILD. If that doesn't define creativity, I don't know what does!
Bob Schultz
 

mrwalsh85

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"you have only epoxied the top bulkhead and are using an all-thread to attach the bottom bulkhead and your dixie-cup weights?" - correct. I didn't follow the directions because restricting yourself to only one fixed amount of added weight is a bad idea. By fabricating just two Dixie-cup weights I have given myself the four options detailed above. If I fabricate one or two additional weight cartridges, my options will expand significantly.
What you called an all-thread is actually a 316 stainless steel shoulder eye bolt, 3/8" diameter, 12 inches long, manufactured by US Cargo Control. It being an eye bolt gives you a loop to fasten your shock cord to. I bought mine through Amazon: Stainless Steel Type 316 Shoulder Eye Bolts - Long - 3/8" x 12" - - Amazon.com.
Good luck!
Bob Schultz
Watch that WLL... 1k lbs is pretty low, IMO.
 

berlinetta

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I just happened to see this thread. I flown my Big Nuke 3E on M1500Gs. I added no nose weight to the rocket. Mine simmed to break mach 1 at around 3,000 feet. I'm sure one wouldn't consider mine "stock" as I added a wrap of kevlar to the top of each tube, fiberglassed the tubes, and I tip-to-tip fiberglassed the fins. She's one tough SOB.
 

billdz

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I just happened to see this thread. I flown my Big Nuke 3E on M1500Gs. I added no nose weight to the rocket. Mine simmed to break mach 1 at around 3,000 feet. I'm sure one wouldn't consider mine "stock" as I added a wrap of kevlar to the top of each tube, fiberglassed the tubes, and I tip-to-tip fiberglassed the fins. She's one tough SOB.
Interesting, thanks for the report. No nose weight? Where was the CG? On my sim, with no nose weight it shows -0.084 cal, which is not good.
 

berlinetta

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I have my L3 report I submitted to my L3CC still. I'll have to grab it and let you know. I seriously measured every tube, every edge of the fins, etc and put it into my Rock Sim. It gave me an altitude of 10,500, but I subtracted the usual 20% and it was just about right where I achieved, around 8800-8900 feet.
 

billdz

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"you have only epoxied the top bulkhead and are using an all-thread to attach the bottom bulkhead and your dixie-cup weights?" - correct. I didn't follow the directions because restricting yourself to only one fixed amount of added weight is a bad idea.
I bought the RWNS and put it together with your mod, I used an 8" eyebolt and filled the canister with 24 two-ounce fishing sinkers. I'm very satisfied, there is 1.5kg in the canister, and I can change the weight by removing some or all of the fishing sinkers.

Note that, if the RWNS is built in accordance with the instructions, it is really not a "removable weight" system at all, because the eyebolt is attached to the canister, and the canister is sealed. So if you want to fly the rocket without the weight canister, you'd have to figure out another way to attach the shock cord.

Also note that, in the 5.5" version, although the instructions say there is one spacer coupler tube, there actually are two.

Weather permitting, my rocket will be going up Saturday on an M1350.
 
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