3D Printing Starter Printer for Rocketry

[techrat]

I realize this question is like asking a dozen hams what's the best radio to get you on the air, where you get 30 responses all saying something different, but here goes:

I have NEVER even touched a 3D printer, much less used one.

However, I realize it's time that if I want to make some of the rockets I want to make, a 3D printer is going to be a needed item.
Time to get my feet wet.
What do you think is the best printer to START with (I do not have to "grow" into a printer, I can always upgrade later, once I have exhausted what I can do with the initial printer); for a complete newbie? Additionally I know software is need to chop up the 3D model into "slices" for the printer, what are recommendations for that?

While I may fiddle with building my own objects, I suspect I'll be lazy and a great deal of what I print (at least to get started) will come from thingiverse and then I need to slice for the printer I end up with. Is anything else needed beyond that?

Be aware I have two cats in my house -- and they have full run of the place. Anything I should know about in terms of safety for the pets?

 

[cerving]

I'm in the same boat, and I ended up getting a Bambu P1S. From all that I've heard, it's about the best all-around printer you can get. It's a little pricey, but for your money it saves you a lot of fiddling.

 

[Banzai88]

Do you want the hobby of printing parts and toys, or do you want the hobby of tinkering with a printer to sometimes be able to print parts and toys?

If you have no desire, or need (and at this point, there's really very little 'need') to build a printer and tinker with a printer and tune a printer and troubleshoot a printer: Bambu P1S, with or without AMS.

• Appliance level reliability and usability, and solves your "Keep the cat out" issues since it is enclosed.
• Simple, easy 'clean it once in a while' type maintenance.
• Start with Bambu slicer, branch out from there (folks like Orca, which has the same roots, and functional upgrades in Orca trickle into Bambu, both of them are Prusa derivatives).
• Stick to your first plan to print lots of free files from Thingi, it'll help you learn your slicer and printer and filament while making fun toys.
• Bambu PLA filament for your first few spools since the built in profiles are 99.9% and you won't need to do sometimes-difficult-to-interpret profile testing. Branch out to other brands and materials from there based on price/desire, PETG is what most folks first non-PLA prints are made from.
• Highly unlikely you'll outgrow it until you're ready for a larger format printer, and by then you'll be informed enough to know what to ask and what to buy.

I bought mine in February of this year. Just checked my tally: 38 spools of filament, a little over 1600 hours on the factory supplied nozzle (still no loss of quality), and the only 'upgrade' I've done is to purchase a gold PEI plate since mine did not initially come with one.

ETA: The Bambu A1 or A1 mini are great printers, too, but are not enclosed so to keep the cats out, you would need to close the door to the room, or put them in a soft enclosure. Also, they're smaller and more suited to toys and such or things like electronics bay sleds, etc.

* If you're not sure you'll be staying in personal 3D printing, the A1 series can be gently used and flipped for nearly what you paid for it. Things like low end Enders, or other entry level printers (besides their inherent issues) are all but outdated and hard to even give away just a year later, much less recoup any of your initial investment.

For that matter, you could get just about anything Prusa with the same utility and reliability as the Bambu.

 

[NTP2]

I’d recommend my ender 3 but since she’s in for repair right now I won’t.

 

[techrat]

Bambu P1S. From all that I've heard, it's about the best all-around printer you can get. It's a little pricey, but for your money it saves you a lot of fiddling.

I'm already steering in that direction as "fiddling" wastes the spools of plastic, as well as a lot of my precious time.
The money isn't that much of an issue as I just made a bit of a haul in the stock market.

 

[OzHybrid]

P1S. The process is seamless. Get the AMS unit too if you can afford it. You can then print up to GF Nylon out of the box. (although I wouldn't start there)
Get it before Trump increases taxes on imports further.

 

[NTP2]

I'm already steering in that direction as "fiddling" wastes the spools of plastic,

a bit yes but no more than a AMS working normally. eg you sometimes have to "purge" Which means you clear and replace all of the plastic in the heated chamber which makes a small poop of plastic.

 

[dr wogz]

A lot of people get a printer, " 'cuze its the ting to do"

I've seen a few get a printer, then print a bunch of things (usually downloaded off the internet) then lose interest. They've printed all they want, and the "coolness" has worn off. They don't have the ability to design their own parts, nor have the time & patience to deal with "issues" as they arise. (the printer, filament / plastic types, etc..) Some plastics smell, and can be toxic in small / enclosed places (ABS for example). Some plastics won't glue, and are soft / will deform at low temps. PLA for example..

A bunch of us have a printer, as we know how to make our own parts (see the various CAD threads), so it's a tool to design & develop ideas

Printers are getting better. They typically have a 3-5 year lifespan before they're obsolete or break.

The Slicer [App that runs the printer] can be tricky. There are a lot of settings to play with! (Had a friend who complained that my parts were too small. I designed them in imperial, but the printer saw them as metric. He didn't know how to convert imperial to metric to get 1:1 parts..) Even different colours of the same material, from the same supplier will need different settings..

The printer isn't a replacement for other technologies or materials. I've seen people print "plates": a 1/4" slab of some shape, that could have been (and should have been) cut from plywood (laser cut) - stronger / more robust part. Also, how the part is oriented on the printer can have dramatic effects to time, strength waste..


Having said all that, the Bambu is the current top printer..

 

[techrat]

The printer isn't a replacement for other technologies or materials.

I agree. And I've spent a lot of time cutting my own centering rigs, nosecone bulkheads, even made "blowthrough" bulkheads that allow me to put the eyebolt in the center of the rocket, with holes around it for the ejection charge (which I call a half-baffle). I've gone to payloadbay.com and downloaded their paper transitions to go from BT-80 to BT-55. All of which have served me fine. But now I'm interested in expanding what we can do with wood and paper.

And if I had a laser cutter, that would also be nice. Or a drill press or a belt sander. Most of what I do is by hand, but I'm interested in branching out.

And yes, I know that people buy a printer and get bored. I'm thinking I can get one second-hand by looking on Craigslist for half the price. But we'll see.

 

[NTP2]

A lot of people get a printer, " 'cuze its the ting to do"

I've seen a few get a printer, then print a bunch of things (usually downloaded off the internet) then lose interest. They've printed all they want, and the "coolness" has worn off. They don't have the ability to design their own parts, nor have the time & patience to deal with "issues" as they arise.

this partly describes me, I haven't done much design because all the stuff i've wanted has already been done better, but I have the skills to make it if need be. I do have the skills to troubleshoot and fix the printer though.

 

[ep29030]

If you want to print larger stuff, get a filament printer. Bambu P1S or X1C are hard to beat for out of the box printing. If you want to print small things and very detailed items, consider a resin printer. I’m doing alot of MMX-sized rocket parts, and I got the AnyCubic Max M7 Pro. At $499 it isn’t cheap, but it has a built-in resin heater and it works well out of the box. Anycubic has a line of resin printers from about $200-$700.

 

[ShadowSpire48]

If most of your stuff will be PLA+/PETG, go with a Bambu A1, if you want an enclosed printer for ASA, P1S. I have an A1 with AMS and an A1 mini and LOVE them. My A1 nozzle is still original and is pushing 900h on it.

 

[manixFan]

….<snipped for brevity>…The printer isn't a replacement for other technologies or materials….<snipped for brevity>…

Hmmm. I use mine for exactly that purpose – to replace other technologies and materials. I have fins, AV bays, tracker mounts, nose cones, bulkheads, even recovery anchors all made with my 3D printer. 3D printed parts have replaced plywood, G10, fiberglass, balsa, and injection molded plastic on many of my rockets. I’ve replaced Exacto knives, laser cutting, drilling, lathes, routers, CNC cutters, etc, all with one device and a CAD program. My current rocket is nearly all 3D printed except for the body tube.

I guess I don’t understand what good a 3D printer would be if it couldn’t replace other technologies and materials.


Tony

 

[OzHybrid]

Hmmm. I use mine for exactly that purpose – to replace other technologies and materials. I have fins, AV bays, tracker mounts, nose cones, bulkheads, even recovery anchors all made with my 3D printer. 3D printed parts have replaced plywood, G10, fiberglass, balsa, and injection molded plastic on many of my rockets. I’ve replaced Exacto knives, laser cutting, drilling, lathes, routers, CNC cutters, etc, all with one device and a CAD program. My current rocket is nearly all 3D printed except for the body tube.

I guess I don’t understand what good a 3D printer would be if it couldn’t replace other technologies and materials.


Tony

Simplistically, you can now easily use a printer to replace every rocket component on a like for like basis. It's not a very effective use of a printer, but it's doable.
A better use of your printer is to change the design of the components to give additional strength and reduce weight by using good shape design. An I beam has about the same strength as it's solid filled rectangular equivalent. Do things like that a lot and your strength to weight in printed form can exceed conventional materials.
By printing a full component like a fin can, you can eliminate gluing and aligning fins and fillets as this can all be done in a single print.
So use your printer to its best strengths.
I have an SCAD file that will print a double wall with a structural honeycombe between if you want to do tubes..

 

[cwbullet]

I would go with a Bambu or a Prusa. Prusa has the edge if you want a printer that you learn to fix. They are completely tinkerproof as are the Bambus. Prusas tend to be a little more upgradable.

 

[dr wogz]

Hmmm. I use mine for exactly that purpose – to replace other technologies and materials. I have fins, AV bays, tracker mounts, nose cones, bulkheads, even recovery anchors all made with my 3D printer. 3D printed parts have replaced plywood, G10, fiberglass, balsa, and injection molded plastic on many of my rockets. I’ve replaced Exacto knives, laser cutting, drilling, lathes, routers, CNC cutters, etc, all with one device and a CAD program. My current rocket is nearly all 3D printed except for the body tube.

I guess I don’t understand what good a 3D printer would be if it couldn’t replace other technologies and materials.


Tony

playing the advocate here

first off, what plastic are you using? and what printer? (If you said Markforged with inlaid reinforcement strands, I would agree, in some cases..)

Does your typical filament:

• Outperform G-10 in terms of strength & heat resistance?
• Outperform plywood in terms of glueability? strength? pull-thru (anchor point) resistance, and heat?
• Lighter than Balsa (and as strong as for the weight)
• Is stronger than an traditionally molded plastics (no layers)
• is equal to / stronger [torsional - laterally loaded] than a paper tube

I do agree that it has it's place, and can be used for a number of components (NC, av bay sleds, etc..) but for structural parts I have my doubts.. Anything where a good glue bond is required, strength (in any of it's 3 axis), will see heat (fin edges, hot car in summer, etc..), or prone to bending / load stresses I would be hesitant. (plastics can be notoriously hard to glue to..)

Mind you, anything LPR is likely fine, with just a weight penalty..

The weakest point of a 3D printed part is along the layer lines..

 

[manixFan]

playing the advocate here

first off, what plastic are you using? and what printer? (If you said Markforged with inlaid reinforcement strands, I would agree, in some cases..)

Does your typical filament:

• Outperform G-10 in terms of strength & heat resistance?
• Outperform plywood in terms of glueability? strength? pull-thru (anchor point) resistance, and heat?
• Lighter than Balsa (and as strong as for the weight)
• Is stronger than an traditionally molded plastics (no layers)
• is equal to / stronger [torsional - laterally loaded] than a paper tube

I do agree that it has it's place, and can be used for a number of components (NC, av bay sleds, etc..) but for structural parts I have my doubts.. Anything where a good glue bond is required, strength (in any of it's 3 axis), will see heat (fin edges, hot car in summer, etc..), or prone to bending / load stresses I would be hesitant. (plastics can be notoriously hard to glue to..)

Mind you, anything LPR is likely fine, with just a weight penalty..

The weakest point of a 3D printed part is along the layer lines..

I had a Prusa Mk3 for 3 years and then gave it to my son (he's an Aerospace Engineer and they use Prusas at work) and bought a Prusa Mk4s. I've been printing PETG nearly exclusively since I started. The answers to your questions are largely irrelevant – I can design and print things that I either can't easily do in an alternative material, that take far less of my time, and once designed can be easily modified and reproduced dozens of times. It doesn't matter if the parts meet all the criteria you state – as long as they are sufficiently strong enough/light enough to handle the job, that's really all that matters. And the cost is often far less than alternative parts/materials.

You may have your doubts, but I have dozen of flights where I've used 3D printed parts, and I live in Texas where heat is always an issue. In fact, this fin can:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-are-you-printing-today.150480/post-2674756

is designed for a series of rockets that will use up a large stash of 29mm single use Ellis Mountain motors I have, both H50s and H101s. Other than the body tubes, every component is 3D printed. The H101 will break Mach depending on finished weight, and I have zero concerns about component strength based on my personal experience. Assembly time is basically minutes, since the printer is doing all the work. And each fin can I print will be the same, no worries about fin alignment, sanding profiles, epoxy mixes, or even paint. (The fin can weighs less than 30 grams, which is lighter than equivalent G10 fins with epoxy fillets, so no weight penalty.)

There are many, many posts here on TRF from builders successfully using 3D printed parts in a wide variety of rockets of all sizes. Like any material/technique, it does take some experience to understand how to best use it, but at least from my perspective, it's been the best addition to my building technique since I started flying HPR 25 years ago.


Tony

EDIT: Here's a great example by John Coker (@JohnCoker) using a 3D printer for a Nike Smoke that would be very time consuming using 'traditional' techniques and materials:
http://jcrocket.com/printed-nike-smoke.shtml

 

[RocketReynolds]

Hmmm. I use mine for exactly that purpose – to replace other technologies and materials. I have fins, AV bays, tracker mounts, nose cones, bulkheads, even recovery anchors all made with my 3D printer. 3D printed parts have replaced plywood, G10, fiberglass, balsa, and injection molded plastic on many of my rockets. I’ve replaced Exacto knives, laser cutting, drilling, lathes, routers, CNC cutters, etc, all with one device and a CAD program. My current rocket is nearly all 3D printed except for the body tube.

I guess I don’t understand what good a 3D printer would be if it couldn’t replace other technologies and materials.


Tony

Is PLA strong enough for bulkheads? My L1 cert rocket has a little zipper, and I want to trim it and add an ebay using 3D printed bulkheads and a sled. How thick would you recommend for a 4” bulkhead?

 

[OzHybrid]

Is PLA strong enough for bulkheads? My L1 cert rocket has a little zipper, and I want to trim it and add an ebay using 3D printed bulkheads and a sled. How thick would you recommend for a 4” bulkhead?

You get a lot of strength from shape. A thin plate with ribs can be stronger than a flat plate and use a lot less material. Show us a picture or sketch of what you're thinking of creating and I can create some STL files for you.

 

[RocketReynolds]

You get a lot of strength from shape. A thin plate with ribs can be stronger than a flat plate and use a lot less material. Show us a picture or sketch of what you're thinking of creating and I can create some STL files for you.

It’s a 4” Zephyr, so I was going to pick up a coupler and body tube from Apogee to create the ebay and new forward section of the rocket. I was just going to use some reduced diameter extra body tube to create the bulkhead seats. I believe the ID on the coupler is 3.7” (94mm). So just a simple round bulkhead with holes for the all thread, eyebolts and wiring penetrations. I guess I could get fancy and add holes for the terminal block screws, but I would think you could get away with wood screws for that.

 

[OzHybrid]

It’s a 4” Zephyr, so I was going to pick up a coupler and body tube from Apogee to create the ebay and new forward section of the rocket. I was just going to use some reduced diameter extra body tube to create the bulkhead seats. I believe the ID on the coupler is 3.7” (94mm). So just a simple round bulkhead with holes for the all thread, eyebolts and wiring penetrations. I guess I could get fancy and add holes for the terminal block screws, but I would think you could get away with wood screws for that.

Wood screws are great in wood. Not as much in a print. It's better to design it and have reinforcement at the specific location of your hole.

 

[Long_Gone]

Flashforge 5M or pro amazing high speed printers check them out I'm make lots of rocket parts and other parts I'm not in to making toys and such, I'm learning freecad and enjoy machines and watching this run at high speed is impressive

 

[RocketReynolds]

Wood screws are great in wood. Not as much in a print. It's better to design it and have reinforcement at the specific location of your hole.

Understood. I’m also thinking a little epoxy goes a long way in that application.

 

[JohnCoker]

If you want to print small things and very detailed items, consider a resin printer.

Resin parts are also strong compared to filament parts (using default settings).

I still would recommend a filament printer, especially BambuLab, as a first printer because of the versatility. Prusa printers (such as the Mk4S) would be a strong second choice for those who lean more towards tinkering.

The most common recommendations I have seen:

1. Ender: inexpensive
2. BambuLab: just works
3. Prusa: quality and support

 

[OzHybrid]

@JohnCoker How about a bulkhead off. Where we print a bulkhead to a set of parameters and you try to break it.
Fixed weight limit. To finalise your tests??????

 

[JohnCoker]

How about a bulkhead off. Where we print a bulkhead to a set of parameters and you try to break it.
Fixed weight limit. To finalise your tests??????

I'm actually working on that now. I've sent off a batch of parts to a fellow forum member who can break them. I don't expect the results to be drastically different, but it will be interesting to see how much difference the different stress type makes.

Here's the article so far (CR tests complete):
https://www.jcrocket.com/printed-components.shtml

 

[OzHybrid]

I'm actually working on that now. I've sent off a batch of parts to a fellow forum member who can break them. I don't expect the results to be drastically different, but it will be interesting to see how much difference the different stress type makes.

Here's the article so far (CR tests complete):
https://www.jcrocket.com/printed-components.shtml

I'd love to contribute some test pieces to a fixed weight piece break off..... you set the parameters. As long as it's a fixed weight..... plus whatever your test piece mounting requirements are. I think there's a lot of design potential for strength. Allow at least a month for people to get the entries in.

 

[JohnCoker]

I'd love to contribute some test pieces to a fixed weight piece break off..... you set the parameters. As long as it's a fixed weight..... plus whatever your test piece mounting requirements are. I think there's a lot of design potential for strength. Allow at least a month for people to get the entries in.

Interesting idea. It would make most sense for someone with a testing machine to do this. (I have to send parts out to a lab to be broken, which gets expensive.) To use a testing lab, each person would have to pay $80-100 per sample tested, but at that point I'm not really adding much; anyone who wants to can send their parts to a lab for testing.

If you'd like to pursue this, I suggest starting another thread to brainstorm the parameters of the competition.

 

[manixFan]

Is PLA strong enough for bulkheads? My L1 cert rocket has a little zipper, and I want to trim it and add an ebay using 3D printed bulkheads and a sled. How thick would you recommend for a 4” bulkhead?

I have only used PTEG for my rocket parts. Here in Texas PLA is too sensitive to heating in the direct sun, enclosed car, etc., to be suitable for use in pretty much anything that will be used outdoors.

I've also only used 3D printed bulkheads up to 54mm, beyond that I think traditional materials are probably better performing – they are easy to work with at that size and 3D prints begin to loose some of their advantages, at least IMHO. But for a lightweight 4" cardboard rocket, a carefully thought out 4" bulkhead should work fine. I can't give you specifics on how thick because so much depends on the number of perimeters, infill, attachment methods, et cetera.

When I use larger diameter 3D printed bulkheads, I also use larger washers on the side opposite of the load to better spread the stress out over the surface of the object. I’ve cracked a couple of bulkheads but never had one fail to the point of loss.

Good luck!


Tony

 

[JohnCoker]

Yeah, I'd stay away from PLA. I think PETG is superior in every way and nearly as easy to print. It's not just the strength, but its very low heat tolerance means it can deform in a hot car.