Star Trek Strange New Worlds Discussion Thread (Spoiler Alert!)

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Huxter

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You have to expect some disconnects between it and TOS or other series or movies. It's entertainment, not history

Exactly! :) I generally look past disconnects and try to enjoy the entertainment. STNW episode 1 had quite a few tho. (I watched episode 1 again!)

No more make-up to make you look like an alien, now Chapel just injects them w a DNA re-sequencer - very painful! (How do they get that DNA out?)

In about 10 seconds, when they beam down to the planet, they show all kinds of new stuff:

The wardrobe is now built into the beaming process - just load the materials/costume file into the transporter and Voila! You're in costume before 'material'izing on the planet!

Same w Tricorders and weapons - they're built into the transporter.

We are talking about ditching Netflix and picking up Paramount +. I will, at least, try a free trial and binge STNM! :)
 

Marc_G

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I greatly enjoyed episode two. It's very "Star Trek" in the way it feels and the development through the episode, and conveys optimism for the future the way the old series did. I also like that it's "PG" rated. Sure, my youngest is 14 already, but I don't need Star Trek episodes to be TV-MA or even 14+. It should be a family show, in my view.

OK question to the trekkies out there:

While I know Pike's backstory, events of the original pilot "The Cage," and the episode "The Menagerie," my family doesn't remember the details and my wife gets frustrated when I try to briefly explain it to remind them. I was thinking of making a powerpoint presentation or something to walk them through it, with pictures, a few video clips, and so on. But I'm sure SOMEWHERE this already has been done to death, I just haven't found it yet. Anybody got a link for something like this? Presumably a youtube video is out there somewhere. Also a summary of relevant Discovery happenings around Pike and the Enterprise would be helpful. Frankly, I was close to bailing on Discovery during season 2 and didn't pay much attention to events myself so I could use a refresher on that part.

And, how about the timeline?

So, STSNW is how many years before the events of "The Cage," and how many years before "The Menagerie?"

From this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cage_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)

"According to "The Menagerie", the events of "The Cage" take place thirteen years before the first season of Star Trek, in 2254. No stardate was given. "



But, that wouldn't make sense. There's no reason to think the Talos IV mission has already happened at this point in SNW, and we're only like 7-8 years out from Kirk taking command of Enterprise.
 
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Marc_G

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Some good discussion on timelines here:


So, according to that article and many other resources, SNW is 7 years before TOS (Kirk) begins. It's probably a discontinuity that "The Cage" would have had to have been 6 years earlier than SNW. Oh well, there are bound to be any number of continuity breaks.

Oh, one more thing: There's one thing about the show I really don't like. Nurse Chapel. The casting and writing for this one character is just so annoying to me.
 
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Daddyisabar

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I also watched episode one for free and although much better than the garbage that is STD and Puke-ard, it's still Kurtzman Trek to me. Wind farms on Earth with with Star Trek technology? Pike, you won't die for another ten years so chill out dude, you are golden! Try to change that future? But even Spock can't figure it out. Strong Vulcan woman, wimpy Spock...say Query again, ha ha. Communicator referred to as phone and has 21st century ring tone, another attempt at comedy? Low tech Aliens develop an antimatter device from just witnessing STD event? They are super Pakled SMART! Old School prosthetics would be better than unreliable genetic alteration. Seemingly impossible Beam-in rental implant at last second, Spork dosent even flinch, super plot armor. Why do they have to get dressed by transporter, can't they fabricate uniforms on board? Spork looses pants! I did not lol. Security obsessed Aliens have no cell guards or cameras, leave alien prisioners in cell to dig hole in wall. Frightened man child alien completely clams down talking football with Uhurah. Again, I didn't lol. There are more dumb tropes and suspension of belief issues but the Gorn retcon really sucks. Unlikable, bitchy characters, can they ever write a decent female character? Hopefully no Mary Sues as series progresses. The fire place in the captain's luxury suite makes it 25% different to fulfill the legal IP requirements, Yea!

STD and Puke-hard set the bar way low, but SNW is not enough of an improvement for me to pay for. Paramount/ CBS/Viacom are stuck with Kutzman/Goldsmith with Secret Hideout/Bad Robot. They are talentless hacks and the ship will not be righted until they are gone, but given their new contract the ship will be at the bottom before they make good Trek. Oh well, I hear The Expanse is Sci-fi worth streaming.
 

Daddyisabar

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I guess you have to rewatch stuff a decade old. For the new stuff I will put on rose colored glasses and watch Disney Star Wars Obi-Wan. I sure hope the recent leaks for that series are not true. Maybe get double paned rose colored glasses, vpn and share passwords like the kidz do these days. ;)
 

Scott_650

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What is an old dude to do these days for a decent space opra fix?
Read. It’s the best solution to the badly written, poorly executed, agenda-ridden video stuff being cranked out. There’s so much well-written, exciting space opera out there - the main Honor Harrington books are amazing (I didn’t find the secondary books Weber co-wrote with Eric Flint very appealing but lots of others really like those too), Niven’s Known Space books are another fun bunch of books, if you like something with plenty of sex and violence and not much deep thought Simon Green’s Deathstalker books should do, David Brin’s Uplift books are the opposite of those though still lots of action, Elizabeth Moon’s Vatta books are way fun, Jack Campbell’s Lost Fleet books are nifty if a bit repetitive, the Expanse books are really good, even better than the show - there’s so much good space opera being written there’s no reason to suffer through bad movies and TV shows.

We had Paramount+ for a year - I managed two and a half episodes of STD and barely made it through two episodes of Picard - just dreadful, joyless, depressingly pandering hooey to me. I get that there are fans that really enjoy them - I’m not one and couldn’t justify keeping P+ just for the hope that SNW would turn out better. It sounds like it is but not enough for me to go back. I did rather enjoy Lower Decks since I find goofy humor and animation enjoyable - the folks making it seemed to at least be having some fun unlike the other shows. As far as Abrams-Trek goes it was pretty to look at but the stories were so dopey I have a hard time remembering the details of the movies, sort of like his version of SW as well, outside of the hammering a square peg in a round hole casting of Benedict Cumberbatch as Kahn - that I remember! Quick aside - are the Noonien-Singhs becoming the Skywalkers of the Trek universe - every story has one or revolves around a family member? Odd choice, that.
 

Daddyisabar

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Read. It’s the best solution to the badly written, poorly executed, agenda-ridden video stuff being cranked out. There’s so much well-written, exciting space opera out there - the main Honor Harrington books are amazing (I didn’t find the secondary books Weber co-wrote with Eric Flint very appealing but lots of others really like those too), Niven’s Known Space books are another fun bunch of books, if you like something with plenty of sex and violence and not much deep thought Simon Green’s Deathstalker books should do, David Brin’s Uplift books are the opposite of those though still lots of action, Elizabeth Moon’s Vatta books are way fun, Jack Campbell’s Lost Fleet books are nifty if a bit repetitive, the Expanse books are really good, even better than the show - there’s so much good space opera being written there’s no reason to suffer through bad movies and TV shows.

We had Paramount+ for a year - I managed two and a half episodes of STD and barely made it through two episodes of Picard - just dreadful, joyless, depressingly pandering hooey to me. I get that there are fans that really enjoy them - I’m not one and couldn’t justify keeping P+ just for the hope that SNW would turn out better. It sounds like it is but not enough for me to go back. I did rather enjoy Lower Decks since I find goofy humor and animation enjoyable - the folks making it seemed to at least be having some fun unlike the other shows. As far as Abrams-Trek goes it was pretty to look at but the stories were so dopey I have a hard time remembering the details of the movies, sort of like his version of SW as well, outside of the hammering a square peg in a round hole casting of Benedict Cumberbatch as Kahn - that I remember! Quick aside - are the Noonien-Singhs becoming th wille Skywalkers of the Trek universe - every story has one or revolves around a family member? Odd choice, that.
I will have to get off the couch and turn off the tele to read a book!

As for the Nooniens turning into a Skywalker cut and paste I would not be surprised given the level of writing in Kurtzman Trek. I will have to give SNW episode 2 a shot since I hear the day is saved with Uhura singing a song just like the Beastie Boyz saved Jar Jar Abrams movie number 3. As a young boy I heard Michelle Nichols sing Beyond Antares at Star Con '76. Totally awesome.
 

Scott_650

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I will have to get off the couch and turn off the tele to read a book!

As for the Nooniens turning into a Skywalker cut and paste I would not be surprised given the level of writing in Kurtzman Trek. I will have to give SNW episode 2 a shot since I hear the day is saved with Uhura singing a song just like the Beastie Boyz saved Jar Jar Abrams movie number 3. As a young boy I heard Michelle Nichols sing Beyond Antares at Star Con '76. Totally awesome.
Of all the could have beens from TOS, not giving Nichelle Nichols more to do on the show is the one I find the most regrettable. It’s a real shame since she’s so much fun to watch on the rare occasions she got to do more than her usual bits. Her scenes in “Mirror, Mirror” are awesome! A truly classy actor.
 

Daddyisabar

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When did the quality of writing and storytelling significantly degrade, becoming preachy, dystopic, stupid, lazy and disrespecting cannon? An over reliance on social justice issues, cramming in as much real world identity politics and virtue signaling as possible in each episode. The answer: when Bad Robot took over the limited set of CBS Intellectual Property Rights and soft rebooted the franchise. Since the first movie it has become worse with each new venture, until SNW.

Yes, there are a few istophobe, incel, basement dwelling man babies out there, as there are radical SJWs mandating diversity boxes be checked and the "message" be paramount. Ignore their agendas and focus on good Trek. Do not ignore the IP lawyers mandating 25% difference and the royalties due if using established characters; the Legal Department Rules! The Orville parody is OK and took two seasons to finally stop repurposing old Star Trek scripts, but at least it is in the "spirit" of Star Trek, making it much more watchable. Will I pay to stream the third season when it comes out of production hell?

I like eyeball pulling, murder, drug addiction, traumatic childhood backstories, talking about feelings, orange man bad, technobabble and sheer 'effing hubris. Just not so much in my beloved Rodenberry - Berman produced style of Star Trek. Kurtzman and Goldsmith have done a tremendous damage to the franchise, no matter what the corporate internet influencers and access media shills propagandize. I've said before that Bad Robot Trek should be hauled away as garbage, fighting words for sure. Is SNW just a garbage scow or even better? I will have to retreat to my safe space, get out my 70's TOS action figures and plastic transporter, spin them around and get in touch with my inner Klingon child.
 

Daddyisabar

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Positives so far: Anson Mount's hair is AWESOME! Shatner must be shaking in his boots looking for the perfect rug. Bakula is not in the contest, Picard and Sisko are disqualified leaving only Janeway in the running for best hair. Mount's acting is great and the rest of the cast's acting is good too. The aesthetics and effects are good for TV as long as they get past legal. The writing is still a problem but much better than before. Still not up to even low Orville standards. The new management at CBS/Viacom is putting the hammer down, but the writing team will not go down without a fight. Most of the old fan fictions are much better, but those were crushed by the IP Lawyers! Are the bean counters happy? That is the real secret. I have seen very targeted marketing and promotional offers so the jury is still out. Paramount Plus really needs a hit. No churn!

After episode Two I went to see the Doc. He laid me down on the sickbay table and I vigorously pushed in those resistance blocks mounted high on the wall as the monitor above went Bing, Bing, Thump, Bing. He said my cold, old school, fan boy Trek heart had recovered a whole 5%! Bring over nurse Chapple and it will gain another few percentage points as long as she dose not recite any of Kurtzman's approved script. Ethan Peck has better legs than Lenard Nimoy so all the shippers will be happy. I will lean towards a complex quadrupole ship of Spock, Chapple, Lady Vulcan and Uhura. The timelines may get a bit messy on that one. Plenty of other ships hinted at and some may actually set sail! No hazmat shipping required after Picard Season Two. :)
 
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mach7

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Ok,

I have avoided this thread since last Thursday because I couldn't watch episode 2 until today.

The thread seems to have evolved a bit.

My initial thoughts on episode 2.

Kind of a trite, odd story. But they pulled it off well.
Overall it was well written, for a modern TV show.
Well acted and directed.
The characters are growing on me. Pike and number 1 are almost perfect.
Nurse Chaple is an interesting choice. She is NOT the Chaple of TOS, but not a bad character.

SNW takes place after the events of The Cage, about 6 years or so before Kirk (JT) is in command.
The Talos IV incident is addressed in Discovery.

I'm liking this enough to continue watching. It is not TOS, but thats ok, I have TOS on bluray and the 3 fanfilm production for that fix.
It is far, far, far better than JJ Trek. I think its better than Discovery and might be better than TNG.

For the record I like The Orville, Nu Galactica, original Galactica, Seasons 2-5 of TNG, and Discovery after the 1st 2 dismal episodes. I liked the 1st season of WestWorld, didn't care for Foundation or the new Lost in Space.
 

georgegassaway

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OK, episode 3 is out.

Pretty nice, I like it. Some heavy lifting by Number one. :)

Secrets getting revealed.

Some spoilers now....

Very early on the planet, the male ensign that was looking thru a cabinet of test tube / flask like equipment, and knowing of the Iliryan's use of genetic engineering, I started to think of TOS's "The Naked Time", when a landing party member put his hand on something and later wiped it off, getting infected. And sure enough, the landing party was infected, and it started to spread, though by a different means. With of course corollaries to recent events with the Pandemic.

And the "WTF" moment when Number One glowed, then acted like everything was OK, not affected by it otherwise, not telling Dr M'Benga about it as others showed up infected in sickbay. Really puzzling, until finding out why later.

Dr M'Benga's big secret, wow. I do sorta have to wonder why transported "data", being stored in a buffer, that given it can be stored for so long (on SNW anyway) is so special that it needs to be stored in a big special buffer drawing significant power, as opposed to that century's version of a spare hard drive. I know that Scotty did that in TNG's "Relics", his other crew member's pattern failed and he attributed it to how long their data was in the buffers, 75 years. M'Benga rematerializes her every so often, which "technobabbley" probably solves that risk).

Also, given "Space Seed", where suspended animation was a "thing" by the late 1990's in TOS, why not keep his ill daughter in suspended animation? Well, two big reasons. This way, he can materialize her to talk to her everyone once in awhile. But the biggest reason, I would think, is that if she was in suspended animation, he probably could not bring her with him onboard the ship in that condition. But his whole premise is running across a civilization out there who would have the medical technology to cure her, so he needed to bring her. And the only practical way for him to do that was to secretly "hide her" in the transporter buffer. I kind of wonder if Number One even told Captain Pike about this (I'm sure he'd be fine with it).

There is another episode of "the Ready Room", with Rebecca Romijn, and SNW Writer Akela Cooper. It starts with a rundown of TOS characters and their SNW counterpart. During which a couple of reminders that TOS Nurse Chapel had "the warms" (if not "the hots") for Spock. And after the interviews, a segment on La'an's connection to Khan Noonian Singh (thankfully TOS footage and none from the Kelvin timeline with "Strange" Khan).

 
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mach7

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I just watched episode 3.

I agree with your assessment, Though good it's not my favorite.

Rebecca Romijn is excellent as number 1, as you said secrets are getting revealed.

Some places, the whole accept everyone was a little thick, but hey-it's Trek.

Has anyone else noticed all the decor is 1960s? The lights, chairs, furnishings. Very similar to TOS.
I like it.
 

georgegassaway

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Last night, I watched Discovery Season two, Episode 8, "If Memory Serves".

First off, anyone who missed season 2, stop reading or else you'll get spoiled big-time.

Go see it, from episode 1.

Again, major spoiler warning

I chose to rewatch that one, due to Vina, Pike, and Talos 4. In the episode, Spock had Burnam go to Talos 4, though she had no idea why. After landing, first being she sees is Vina, from TOS "The Cage / Menagerie (I earlier mis-typed Court Martial). She makes it so clear how interested she is in Captain Pike. And even though Vina says so, Burnam still might not fully understand how Vina has been living with a virtual Pike ever since he left.

And then the payoff when Pike sees her in his quarters on Discovery, at least a projection of her. Also of course the Talosians doing their thing.

So, we know how this is gonna end for Pike on Talos 4, first from TOS itself with "The Menagerie", and how he got that way during Discovery's "Through the Valley of Shadows", when Pike accepted and saw his fate, which episode one of SNW showed briefly.

So, why do I bring all this up? Well, despite Number One's cheerleading that Pikes fate is not certain, the whole nature of the Time Crystal thing tends to make that a "Fixed point in time", to borrow a Doctor Who term. I won't be upset if they change it, but I'm going on the assumption that his future does not change.

Either way, whenever SNW has its last season, hopefully like 7 seasons as most post-TOS ST shows got (TNG, DS9, Voyager), I expect they will have a series finale that addresses it. If his fate is sealed, then SNW's Spock and the Vina from Discovery (and Talosians), would be involved in re-created scenes from Menagerie. While using actual TOS scenes from "The Cage" to set things up in Discovery's "If Memory Serves" worked out well, it would be a bit jarring if they did that again with TOS scenes with Shatner as James Kirk (and eventually we'll see JTK in SNW) in the finale. So they could do a good job of showing Spock "kidnapping" Pike and stealing the Enterprise (which will have Uhura, Chapel, and M'Benga aboard. Oh, and Mr Kyle, too....probably the first to see Pike Beam aboard Enterprise, unless M'Benga is in on it and beamed him into sickbay). I'd not expect the whole court martial thing (legal proceeding), they could perhaps avoid showing that, or more likely some snippets, and probably new/different scenes along the way to Talos 4.

With, eventually, the huge payoff scene with Vina on Talos 4.

Of course there would also have to be some involvement in that episode with the rest of the crew of the Enterprise from SNW. Unless there was a "next to last" episode that was a Finale for most of Pike's crew on Enterprise itself, then the last episode might be a flash-forward that not only covers Pike's fate, but also where other members of his crew ended up. Say Number One becoming a captain, and several members of SNW's Enterprise going with her, while other members move elsewhere. Oh, just realized, possibly when Pike takes command of a new ship, several crew go with him. And possibly Number One goes with him too, and becomes captain after the accident. Or, and this could be very likely, she already is captain of the ship with the accident, but Pike is there too (because he knows the identities of the people he saves).

Update - Memory Alpha shows Pike becomes "Fleet Captain" after leaving the Enterprise, apparently without a specifically assigned ship. Beyond that I won't speculate anymore (Memory Alpha indicates some other stuff too, from books/comics, but I could see SNW changing some of that for the sake of a great final episode).

Many ways this could go and I hope we do NOT find out for several years. :)
 
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mach7

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I need to go back and rewatch those Discovery episodes, good insights.

Just one very minor correction, The TOS 2 part episode that had Pike was "The Menagerie"
"court-martial" was the Ion pod episode.
Sorry, I know I'm too much of a Star Trek geek.
 

georgegassaway

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I need to go back and rewatch those Discovery episodes, good insights.

Just one very minor correction, The TOS 2 part episode that had Pike was "The Menagerie"
"court-martial" was the Ion pod episode.
Sorry, I know I'm too much of a Star Trek geek.
Thanks.

I fixed it. I know better. Saw so many of those episodes so many times.

Although not much since the revised special effect versions came out. I LIKED the improved effects, "Doomsday Machine" was so so much better with them, they could not even afford enough effects for the original version. And the opening effects of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" is awesome. Simply that I had not seen TOS much at all since the 1980's, and the improved effects were a good reason to watch some again. Same reason why I do not generally watch TNG or DS9 or Voyager reruns recently either, but if I find certain episodes come up (like "Yesterday's Enterprise), I'll rewatch some.

- George
 
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