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Star Orbiter G80T...Supersonic?

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mbeels

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Ah nuts, sorry to hear that. Hope you and the students still had a good time at the launch. Will you try again?
 

BABAR

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While I do like the idea, I can't agree with the concept. Yup, lost more small stuff than I'd like to remember, but it's technically preparing to fail..
I see your point, but disagree.

If you think the rocket us unlikely to fail, you shouldn’t launch it to begin with. But I am thinking that even with well designed rockets (even KITS:rolleyes:o_O) sometimes s.....tuff happens when you mess with things going supersonic (or subsonic:(), and sometimes shock cords or attachment points fail.

You can make an argument that it is a safety precaution. I get a kick out of people on this forum, God bless ‘em, who consider it a major safety issue for a rocket to eject a D Motor casing, I am thinking some electronic doodads coming down sans chute might make a bigger dent.

I also put red Mylar tape on my electronics, helps me find it in the grass in the field (or sometime on my work table!) when I set it down “just for a moment.”

caveat, make sure you have the space for an extra streamer. For me most common cause of failure of recovery is “I stuffed the chute and wadding too tight.”
 

ebman159

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Ah nuts, sorry to hear that. Hope you and the students still had a good time at the launch. Will you try again?
Well idk yet. This was our second try...lost it both times. Might be a sign. We may try again but it won’t be for a couple of months.
 

Wallace

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I'm a fan of redundancy, but prepping to recover lost parts in advance is a different game.In my mind that effort would be better spent avoiding failure. Again, just my opinion.
 

Tyler P

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I'm a fan of redundancy, but prepping to recover lost parts in advance is a different game.In my mind that effort would be better spent avoiding failure. Again, just my opinion.
So you drive your car without a seatbelt or go out on a boat without a life jacket?

Stuff happens. There's no reason not to setup for a worst-case scenario, especially because this rocket was pushing the edges of what is possible with this build.

Absolutely, I would want the chance to recover any expensive electronics if something was to happen to the rocket. In this case, it flew as per the plan but disappeared, so it's a moot point.
 

Nytrunner

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and today it went above the cloud ceiling
That is a judgment error

Flying through the cloud ceiling means you cant see what's in your rockets flight path. Check altitude of cloud ceiling whenever attemtping an extreme flight.
 

K'Tesh

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While I do like the idea, I can't agree with the concept. Yup, lost more small stuff than I'd like to remember, but it's technically preparing to fail..
I wouldn't call it preparing to fail, I'd call it insurance. You don't buy car insurance with the intent to get into a collision. But having insurance sure makes it a lot easier to recover if you do.

My L1 flight had a 1/8" strip of Trim Monokote, and it flashed as the rocket descended. Sure made spotting it and keeping eyes on it a lot easier. The streamer doesn't need to be long, it just needs to make the part it's attached to a lot easier to find if the worst should happen.
 

Wallace

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Do you keep a fire extinguisher next to your stove when frying chicken?
 

Wallace

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I've had an oil/grease fire while frying food. It was terrifying.
 

Wallace

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Painfully obvious that there will be no end to "this". I'm out. Enjoy..
 

kuririn

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but it's technically preparing to fail..
I like to think of it as being prudent and planning for contingencies.
I keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen at all times.
+1. Inside the pantry door, right next to the range.
IMG_20191117_144318.jpg


Also keep a portable one in the range box. Lit up a balsa fin with a misfire once.

IMG_20191117_144437.jpg


Also had a small one in the car glove box, but didn't replace it when it expired.

Back to the subject,
For the OP, if space allows consider using a small GPS or radio tracker and hardware. Expensive but you'll stand a much better chance of getting your rocket back.
 

ebman159

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I like to think of it as being prudent and planning for contingencies.

+1. Inside the pantry door, right next to the range.
View attachment 398860

Also keep a portable one in the range box. Lit up a balsa fin with a misfire once.

View attachment 398861

Also had a small one in the car glove box, but didn't replace it when it expired.

Back to the subject,
For the OP, if space allows consider using a small GPS or radio tracker and hardware. Expensive but you'll stand a much better chance of getting your rocket back.
I had a radio tracker in it...still couldn’t find it somehow...searched about 4 square miles for it. It’s like it vanished.
 

K'Tesh

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In reply to the question about a fire extinguisher... I don't cook, or at least, not on a stove. However, I do keep a fire extinguisher in my home. At one time, I had a couple of them (those are currently residing in the crawl space under my mom's home).

In re-reading my first post, I realize that the word "streamer" was left out, and there may be some confusion in my method of recovery. I've edited that post.

Basically, I'm not saying that the streamer should be the method of recovering the payload bay section. It should be inside the payload bay in the event that whatever causes the shred tears the payload section open, scattering the components like the prizes from a pinata.

In thinking about this more, I think I'll try this for all builds where the rocket is likely to be able to go out of sight... Attaching a small section of "chrome mylar" (perhaps some Trim Monokote, a small ribbon cut from an old balloon, or a scrap of candy wrapper) placed somewhere on the shoulder of the nosecone, the parachute, or the shock cord. In sunny conditions, you might get a flash of light (like I did with my L1), that'll help you spot it. To show you what I mean, I'll add the video of the flight. The flashes become visible around the 1:08 minute mark. Rob's comment about the "glistening" references the Union Jack duct tape that he gave me to repair the damaged nosecone from the previous failed attempt at my L1 (and IMHO a bit of wishful thinking from one of the nicest Brits you could ever meet ;) ).


There are 4 strips of Trim Monokote on that rocket, one (1/2" long) on the shoulder of the nosecone, one on the top edge of the body tube (somewhere around 3/32" visble), and two below the black decal wrap Stickershock made for me. The concept was designed to look like a real (big) can of bug spray, made from "metal", and designed to repel all those Mega Mosquitoes that were being flown after Estes put them on sale.
 
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Tyler P

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In reply to the question about a fire extinguisher... I don't cook, or at least, not on a stove. However, I do keep a fire extinguisher in my home. At one time, I had a couple of them (those are currently residing in the crawl space under my mom's home).

In re-reading my first post, I realize that the word "streamer" was left out, and there may be some confusion in my method of recovery. I've edited that post.

Basically, I'm not saying that the streamer should be the method of recovering the payload bay section. It should be inside the payload bay in the event that whatever causes the shred tears the payload section open, scattering the components like the prizes from a pinata.

In thinking about this more, I think I'll try this for all builds where the rocket is likely to be able to go out of sight... Attaching a small section of "chrome mylar" (perhaps some Trim Monokote, a small ribbon cut from an old balloon, or a scrap of candy wrapper) placed somewhere on the shoulder of the nosecone, the parachute, or the shock cord. In sunny conditions, you might get a flash of light (like I did with my L1), that'll help you spot it. To show you what I mean, I'll add the video of the flight. The flashes become visible around the 1:08 minute mark. Rob's comment about the "glistening" references the Union Jack duct tape that he gave me to repair the damaged nosecone from the previous failed attempt at my L1 (and IMHO a bit of wishful thinking from one of the nicest Brits you could ever meet ;) ).


There are 4 strips of Trim Monokote on that rocket, one (1/2" long) on the shoulder of the nosecone, one on the top edge of the body tube (somewhere around 3/32" visble), and two below the black decal wrap Stickershock made for me. The concept was designed to look like a real (big) can of bug spray, made from "metal", and designed to repel all those Mega Mosquitoes that were being flown after Estes put them on sale.
We have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. We've never had to use it but I'm glad it's there. I really should have one in my basement workshop, also. This is not planning for failure, this is planning for the chance of a failure.

If all things are done correctly and safely, things are built solidly, you've planned everything out properly, the chance of failure is slim. However, it CAN still happen, regardless of what you've done to prevent it. Having a contingency in place to help you recover expensive things that may eject on the slim chance of a failure isn't planning for failure, hoping for a failure, or building the failure into the rocket, it's being smart.


K'Tesh, that's really a good idea to help visually track it. You could really see the flash off of it.
 

Tyler P

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I had a radio tracker in it...still couldn’t find it somehow...searched about 4 square miles for it. It’s like it vanished.
Having never used a radio tracker on a rocket (have yet to fly high enough to need one) does the tracking equipment on-board the rocket have a permanently attached power source? Any chance that the tracker got disconnected in flight?
 

ebman159

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Having never used a radio tracker on a rocket (have yet to fly high enough to need one) does the tracking equipment on-board the rocket have a permanently attached power source? Any chance that the tracker got disconnected in flight?
Typically I use an antenna “guard” if you will, and I did not this time pretty much because I forgot and didn’t think it was required. My theory is that the antenna was damaged in the separation phase. And yes, mine had a battery shrink wrapped to it, I used a 70cm radio beacon, and tracked it with my home-made yagi antenna+ham radio. I will be upgrading to 70cm APRS probably for next launch...little easier to track and get information from.
 
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Tyler P

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Typically I use an antenna “guard” if you will, and I did not this time pretty much because I forgot and didn’t think it was required. My theory is that the antenna was damaged in the separation phase. And yes, mine had a battery shrink wrapped to it, I used a 70cm radio beacon, and tracked it with my home-made yagi antenna+ham radio. I will be upgrading to 70cm APRS probably for next launch...little easier to track and get information from.
So the power source was secure but the antenna may have been damaged. I get it. Sorry to hear you lost equipment. That's my biggest fear with putting pricey stuff into a rocket.
 

ebman159

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So the power source was secure but the antenna may have been damaged. I get it. Sorry to hear you lost equipment. That's my biggest fear with putting pricey stuff into a rocket.
I’ve lost quite a bit of money twice...had a close call on a third time as well. My advice: if you’re going to put something expensive in your rocket, pay the money to get something that will lower your risk factor by the most it can be lowered...for example...instead of a beacon, use APRS. I suppose each one has its application but you get the idea. Don’t skimp.
 

John Taylor

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That is a judgment error

Flying through the cloud ceiling means you cant see what's in your rockets flight path. Check altitude of cloud ceiling whenever attemtping an extreme flight.
Right, safety rules state you shouldn't fly into clouds. It is up to the flyer to take measures to avoid this from happening.
 

BABAR

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For the OP, if space allows consider using a small GPS or radio tracker and hardware. Expensive but you'll stand a much better chance of getting your rocket back.
Or another part to lose!

Connecting to the original post, do you attached the tracker to the other hardware or to the rocket or both?

If the hardware separates from the rocket, which one do you want the tracker on?

Seems reasonable to attach a gps locator to expensive hardware, especially when the hardware is worth more than the rocket. Jolly Logic Chute release comes to mind.

You could attach a tracker to a tracker so you don’t lose the tracker if it doesn’t track.

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.........
 

ebman159

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Or another part to lose!

Connecting to the original post, do you attached the tracker to the other hardware or to the rocket or both?

If the hardware separates from the rocket, which one do you want the tracker on?

Seems reasonable to attach a gps locator to expensive hardware, especially when the hardware is worth more than the rocket. Jolly Logic Chute release comes to mind.

You could attach a tracker to a tracker so you don’t lose the tracker if it doesn’t track.

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.........
I had both attached. And makes sense, redundancy is never a bad idea[emoji23]
 

retortec

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Bummer! I have had God snatch many of my Mach busters for his fire place mantel. Making the call when and where to launch is always a hard. I have resorted to long reflective streamers with a fast/safe decent rate. That minimizes the recovery area. Using a piston and insanely long recovery harness helps as well. The G recovery loads for mid and small rockets can shred the recovery device especially if apogee has not been reached. You can load the piston with chalk as well for a great visual marker during and after deployment. My latest 16" Mach buster uses a 8 foot long recovery harness. Punching the cloud cover never helps but adding as many visual aids for recovery does.
 

Wallace

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Right, safety rules state you shouldn't fly into clouds. It is up to the flyer to take measures to avoid this from happening.
Our club will not let us fly anything that "might" approach the cloud ceiling. They're very strict about it..
 

Wallace

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Please don't give up. We'd all love to see you break the sound barrier and not have a kitchen fire that causes you to expend your overpriced fire extinguisher in the very (food containing) room of your house you'd least like to have that occurrence in which you'd then be inclined to throw out everything with the exception of canned goods. Happy Thanksgiving btw!!!
 

ebman159

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Hey, been a minute.

So we’ve decided to try again. The group was hanging out one evening and we got to laughing about losing the last two rockets and then we got to talking about trying for Mach again. The design is good. It should work. About a month and a half ago we launched a test with a D-12 engine using a motor adapter we 3D printed. It flew flawlessly straight. Flew it again, same result. We made some modifications to the tower as well, added some brackets to keep it stable and such and I think this time around I have a better feeling about it.
We are ready, but the problem is we need an altimeter. And seeing as we designed this rocket to work with the Jolly Logic AltimeterThree and also seeing as how Jolly Logic is dead as a door nail right now, we don’t know when we will be able to launch. The project is going well, though. We’re very excited about our little unconventional looking thing. Thanks for all of your guys’ support. It’s meant a lot and one of the reasons we decided to keep the project going.
Thanks.
19F5F198-A59C-4F73-AAAF-0FBB1F5FF370.jpeg
 

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