Stageing

[blinder]

Hi I am going to build a series of Astron Omegas from Estes. One will be stock , one will use an E engine for the sustainer and a D engine for boost and the last one will be the result of lessons learned. I built this long ago when it was an Estes kit but I cant remember the finer points of stageing. I seem to remember tapeing the end of one engine to the beginning of the next but I am unclear on this. Is there any help out there on staging an Omega?
blinder

 

[powderburner]

We're happy to have you join us.
Did you select your handle because you are a fan of the old Soviet bomber?

Back to your qstn: check out JimZ's compilation of old Estes kit plans at
https://www.dars.org/jimz/estes.htm
and scroll down the list until you get to K-52. The kit instructions tell you pretty much how to prep the bird and set up the motors.

 

[eugenefl]

Originally posted by blinder
Hi I am going to build a series of Astron Omegas from Estes. One will be stock , one will use an E engine for the sustainer and a D engine for boost and the last one will be the result of lessons learned. I built this long ago when it was an Estes kit but I cant remember the finer points of stageing. I seem to remember tapeing the end of one engine to the beginning of the next but I am unclear on this. Is there any help out there on staging an Omega?
blinder

Greetings Blinder! Welcome to TRF!

As far as staging Estes motors go, in this model I would suggest placing a small (one wrap) wrap of clear gift wrap cellophane tape around the joint where the two motors meet. This will prevent from the "staging" BP of the C11-0/D12-0 from "popping" away from the upper stage motor. Just make sure the orientation of the motors is correct.

 

[jflis]

Greetings!

First, with respect to the Omega, note that it employed Pop-N-Go staging. Meaing that the two motors were *not* taped together. There was a gap (I can't remember how much) and both stages had engine hook retainers. Also, there were *no* vent holes cut.

I have had 2-3 of them over the years and never had a staging failer. Easiest 2 stager to prep for flight. Snap the booster motor in the first stage and install an igniter. Snap the sustainer motor in the upper stage, stick the stages together and you're ready to go

good luck and keep us posted!
jim

 

[Larry]

Blinder,
Welcome to TRF. What Jim said about staging the Omega I second. I have one but have never flown it two staged. The picture is of a scratch built two stage that uses the same pop&go staging as the Omega. It seems to work every time.......Larry

 

[n3tjm]

With pop and go boosters, there is one thing to worry about. One is if the booster is to loose, the gases will push the stages apart before the hot burning propellant chuncks have time to travel into the nozzle of the sustainer. So make sure the booster has a snug fit. I also add some vent holes to the boosters, which allow the gases to excape, giving the burning chunks enough time to travel.

 

[blinder]

Yeah blinder is the bomber. I was a vulnerability analyst in my earlier life. I spent a lot of time learning how to shoot down Blinders and SS18s.

Thanks for the suggestions. This thing should scream when I get it flightworthy. I have ordered all the piece parts and cant wait to get started. One thing I noticed that seemed strange to me is the sustainer motor tube extends several inches up into the body of the sustainer. Is that necessary? Is it some sort of chute deployment assist by confining the ejection charge pressure pulse? I am going to build the first one to plan so I will include it but I would like to know some theory here. Thnaks for the welcome!

Blinder

 

[powderburner]

blinder,
You were asking about the extended motor tube? Yes, such an extension can reduce the volume that must be pressurized inside the upper stage to achieve ejection. These extended tubes are called 'stuffer' tubes. No, it is probably not necessary on an Omega. (Look at all the big/long rockets like the Richter Wrecker that do not use stuffer tubes and still eject just fine.)
When you get feeling a little more brave, you can start making mods to the plans. You can build the upper stage motor mount to accept 3.75 inch (Estes 'E' motors) and use a one inch spacer for regular D or C-powered flights to hold the shorter motor case in the right spot (cut an inch from the front of a used motor to use for a spacer).
Or plug the front of the motor mount tube and add holes around the sides of the front end of that tube----you have the start of an ejection baffle. Add another baffle plate or two in front of that, and you won't need ejection wadding anymore.
Jim Flis is right (along with the others), you don't tape the motors together on this design. I had about three or four flights on mine before it floated away, and the pop-n-go staging worked fine.

 

[blinder]

Thanks, This is gettiing funner and funner! I hope my pieces parts arrive soon. I am building it for altitude and I hope to keep better tabs on it this time around. I went to the Army Navy Surplus Store and bought a field compass so I can at least stay on the right ground vector at retrival. I will post pics as I build it if thes is the right place to do that.
Ken

 

[Fore Check]

Originally posted by blinder
Thanks, This is gettiing funner and funner! I hope my pieces parts arrive soon. I am building it for altitude and I hope to keep better tabs on it this time around. I went to the Army Navy Surplus Store and bought a field compass so I can at least stay on the right ground vector at retrival. I will post pics as I build it if thes is the right place to do that.
Ken

Did you say pics?

We love pics! The more, the merrier!

Good luck with your project!



(I have a CC Express that I will build to accomodate a 3.75" E sustainer as well - but I might not have the guts to try a D12-0 to E9-8 launch.....)