SST Orbital Transport-ish R/C Rocket glider large and small

[Extrapolatedman]

Yes. The issue is the design to make a fly back booster would have to be similar to what I did, englarge the wing/wingspan and wing location for CG for glide back, then you would have to space the tails out more to clear the glider, I left them inboard to clear the elevons and not have to move them forward and reduce stability in yaw, then you would have to do the attachment points on both booster and glider, you would need to rebalance the glider without the motor as I don't think you would want to carry weight of trying to do an airstart to the tiny glider, and have a release mechanism for the glider since you don't have the rapid "stop" of the parachute ejection to release with a simple hook attachment like the original, and then the whole thing would be heavier of course so you would have to see what weight it came out at and what motors you could use, if it required a fast burn motor then the stiffness and attachment would potentially be an issue, and you would have to see how the CG came out for boost and all the offset drag of the added glider, would need to fly it on the way up and down, and have a second pilot of course, probably why I haven't done it yet, or anyone else in this same format(there have been piggyback dual glide back but not as an orbital transport)...but I think you should

Love the tips, thanks! The necessity of a second pilot has been a blocker for me as well - rocket guys don't do RC, and RC guys don't do rockets. I'd be pretty darn happy with a parachute-recovery booster and the small BT-60 orbiter. I'll take a close look at the Estes Super Orbital Transport and see if the glider could be converted to RC with a Spektrum 2-servo brick. Be a nice stepping stone!

 

[burkefj]

Love the tips, thanks! The necessity of a second pilot has been a blocker for me as well - rocket guys don't do RC, and RC guys don't do rockets. I'd be pretty darn happy with a parachute-recovery booster and the small BT-60 orbiter. I'll take a close look at the Estes Super Orbital Transport and see if the glider could be converted to RC with a Spektrum 2-servo brick. Be a nice stepping stone!

That should work, a bit heavy for the small size but you can at least control it

 

[burkefj]

I realized that with the shorter cone I stretched the body tube to keep oal the same but when I put the canards in I just measured from the end of the tube so they were 5" further forward than the little one scaled up.. I also thought it looked a little gangly or out of proportion so I cut out 4.25" and re attached the front with a coupler. It will require about a quarter of an ounce more nose weight but I am still lighter than I need. I will be able to fly on G-12 motors as well. I also added some more decal greeblies..

 

[aerostadt]

I was thinking that 67" for the first simulation seemed maybe long, although my large 3" Aurora Clipper is on the order of 6 feet long. The predicted about 20 oz for a glider about 67" long sounds very good. Is it possible to get some actual weights?

 

[burkefj]

I was thinking that 67" for the first simulation seemed maybe long, although my large 3" Aurora Clipper is on the order of 6 feet long. The predicted about 20 oz for a glider about 67" long sounds very good. Is it possible to get some actual weights?

67" is 2x the small one I did. The conical is 6.5" long so would scale to 13" long with 54" of tubing, the pnc80k is 8" long, plus I moved the wing back 2" to help, its not too long, just propotionally looked funny in this size, there is NO 1.5 oz. 13" conical in this suze. Model s 18 oz wo ballast, battery, rx and servos, motor weighs 7.25 oz, maybe 2 oz less for G12.

 

[burkefj]

Pushrods installed, for this the flight stresses are higher so want the servo about in the middle of the elevon, can not hide it in the intake box, but servo will go in a pocket in the wing vertically, I cut passthrough holes to feed the servo wires through the intakes and body tube to get to the receiver. 18.6 oz as shown

 

[burkefj]

I'm not saying I will, but I'm not saying I won't. I sized the glider just small enough to fit between the tails, 1.3 oz as shown, about 2.5 with rc gear, the release weighs 18 grams...Not sure it will work on the top of the model instead of the bottom like a bomb drop, I put it on my xmas list if I get it I'll think about it.

 

[Extrapolatedman]

That's a cool little widget!

 

[burkefj]

Got the 5065 digital metal gear servos installed, balanced two nose cones, one for G-12ST, one a half an ounce heavier for H-13, 27 oz rtf with G-12, 29.5 oz rtf with H-13, finished the decals and the little piggyback glider..

 

[burkefj]

I decided I might try to do an E-6 powered BT-60 version...

 

[burkefj]

Working on a sim now...to see how it might balance and turn out.

 

[burkefj]

BT-60 version Sim looks do-able..

 

[burkefj]

Sim looks like it should be around 9 oz rtf depending on glue and components used...Design in progress.

 

[burkefj]

Here is the BT-60 version I built this morning using templates I made in case I ever kit this, I used 9mm for the wing since the weight was so light it will help prevent wing flex. Should be about 9.1 oz rtf..assembly photos showing beveling edges and general fitting.

 

[burkefj]

 

[burkefj]

 

[burkefj]

 

[burkefj]

Finished up, 38.5" long, 24" wingspan, 9.1 oz rtf. I had to move the wing forward an inch and cut the forward tube back an inch relative to a direct scale from BT-55 based to BT-60 based...and kept the wingspan a tad shorter, more like a 1.17 scale up than a 1.22 relative to body tube ratios, for CG reasons mostly....Turned out nice.

 

[burkefj]

Test flew the micro Piggyback glider on a D2.3 today for fun, very roll sensitive, I'm down to 34% on aileron, but had a nice boost and glide, at 4.5 oz rtf, for glide return on the big model if I do that, I have a weighted nozzle that plugs into the rear to keep the same CG as burnout with this model so glide trim will be the same.

 

[burkefj]

Here is my first version of the kit with intakes outboard and elevons inboard, slightly larger tails mid span, I decided I liked the outboard elevons better and it put less mass out near the wingtips with the engine intakes mounted inboard.

 

[burkefj]

E-6 powered model, my wife got the boost at least. Did two trim flights for boost and glide trim adjustments and then flew two more and got one minute glide times on each flight.

 

[burkefj]

Flew the version made from the kit templates, flew beautiful, moved cg back a quarter inch compared to the other prototype, flew one flight and put in a bit of down trim and had nice straight boosts and 1:30 glide times on two flights, easy flare on landing, very graceful looking, beautiful blue sky today too. Did not get any video unfortunately.

 

[neil_w]

Just beautiful. Do the canards have much (or any) effect on glide behavior?

 

[burkefj]

Just beautiful. Do the canards have much (or any) effect on glide behavior?

Not much at their size, they move the CG forward a bit which is what I wanted to put CG where I wanted it.

 

[burkefj]

Another photo so show the size of the 24mm version

 

[burkefj]

I got the eflite payload release module, kind of neat, but wasn't releasing when I flipped the switch, the manual release fully pulls the pin out but with the servo mechansim inside the pin wasn't retracting 100% and no amount of throw adjustment helped, I finally wound up recessing the hole in the glider recepticle and it seems to be releasing now, it's nice in that it aligns things and holds them from moving too much so I didn't need any external supports for the wings. I think I'll have to roll inverted at the top and then release the model to drop out, I don't think it will have enough force with the up elevons to pop it up and off right side up, so we'll see how that works. Hopefully if the glider rights itself it will be ok. I set the mechanism just ahead of the CG and the glider hangs back a bit so it did not change the CG where I placed it. The glider uses 3mm depron and BT-20 about like the original kit, it's a tad small for the booster, should be BT-50, but I was afraid of weight and hitting the tails so I went small on this one. It's sort of the same scale as the BT-60 version I made for the H powered model.

 

[burkefj]

Made a spare glider..they both weigh 13 grams, about 8" long, 6" span..

 

[burkefj]

Holy crap it worked, twice! Flew one captive flight to check trim with parasite and glide recovery with glider attached just to see how it glided with both together, then two flights, straight boost rolled inverted and released, piggyback was trimmed perfectly, very very small, glad my buddy John Hornsby III Photography & Custom Embroidery was there to watch it, I think this is a first for an rc glidable orbital transport booster with detachable glider! Just got some pre flight and landed photos

 

[burkefj]

Mounted the release mechanism and socket just ahead of the cg on the H-13 booster and R/C orbiter glider tonight, added some wing supports to hold the glider wings from ricking too much, should be 35 oz rtf, right about the sweet spot. I made a display nozzle for the orbiter that holds an empty 18mm case in place and adds some tail weight to give me the right glide cg with some up elevon, identical to the post burnout cg when I fly it standalone on D2.3 motors.

 

[aerostadt]

George Gassaway tried an r/c glider on top of an r/c glider as shown on the cover of the November/December 2004 Sport Rocketry magazine. I am not sure if he was successful.