Speaking of Gliders

[Micromeister]

Estes re-issue of the wonderful old Scissor Wing Transport makes me wonder if any of you folks build and fly glider (Boost Glider, Rocket Glider or parasite gliders) just ofr fun?

Personally I'm AWFUL with gliders! I stomped my very first pin stripped "Falcon B/G" into the ground on film after 3 unsuccessful stright up and Stright DOWN flights. My second Falcon just painted black Thermaled away on its first flight.. I could seem to win with that design, others like the Night hawk,scissor wing transport, Crusader swing-wing, and No-mad R/G seem to work out fine.
Later I got my very first qualitifed competition B B/G flight with my original scissor wing transport ona B6-2 While a brand new B B/G design cork-screwed into the groujnd..
Even with Rob Edmonds conatant help I can't seem to learn the ART of Trimming gliders. I build tons...Few glide will. anyone have better luck?

Here's that ancient Falcon B/Gs photo just for fun. maybe other folks will post pics of some of their successful Gliders.

 

[shrox]

https://home.comcast.net/~estenson/aery/aery.htm

This a program that will design a flying glider. They are pretty simple, but they fly.

shrox

 

[illini]

I've had a lot of fun with Edmonds' sport gliders. The Ecee is one of my favorites. My son has a Deltie that's a snap to build and fly (stays up forever). I also have a CiCi2 (two stage dual-glider) that roasted itself on its first flight (since rebuilt). I'm thinking about an Ecee Thunder. Trimming is very easy with these designs. Edmonds has all the incidence angles built into the design. Just build, balance, and go.

Wasn't aware of the Scissor Wing reissue. I'll have to keep my eye out for that one.

 

[Micromeister]

Thanks Shrox! I'll check the program out.

Illini:
I believe I have at least one of every Glider Robert has designed, including the hands free RC/BG. I'm just not very good at trimming them for a decent glide I really like the EC series I thermalled away a EC-18 on a b motor I've built and flown delties from Micro-Maxx downscale to the Deltie thunder, and Ivees also micro-maxx downsclled to b's. I was actually looking for some of the other types like the Flatcat which i've never actually seen fly, firefly, Dragonfly B/G and some of the other manufacture's, QCR Quest, and things like the "groundhog" competition type gliders.

for those of you who haven't been introduced to Edmonds gliders here is a pic of a few of the designs, there are many more

 

[sandman]

I like my EC-13 glider a lot. The only mod I made was a piano wire motor hook instead of the masking tape.

Now my Astron Space Plane....That is my absolute favorite glider.

Going on 25 flawless flights including 3 BEAUTIFUL flights at NARAM 45 last year.

One circled the parking area in a big giant circle and landed perfectly in the driveway.

Second flight made a tighter (like 75' in diameter) circle and landed in the R/C area...The R/C guys were impressed!

The third flight had no circle in it at all...it appeared to wanna run away from home...glided straight and fast and took me forever to find it!

Fortunately I did find it but I also found JimZ's Goblin that just happened to be the same color (yellow) that he lost the day before.

The Astron Spaceplane is very very hard to trim right...so when it is right...just keep slapping engines in it and keep flying!

My micromaxx version flys even better...as long as there is no wind! Otherwise it kinda takes on the flight characteristics of a falling leaf!

sandman

 

[jflis]

I am also fond of gliders (boost, rocket, parasite) as they add an additional elelment of excitment to the launch

I have one glider design (i will dig it up and get a pix for the forum) uses built up wings and monocoat skin. Great performer!

I've also taken several whitewing gliders and adapted them to B/G models as shown in this picture: https://jflis.com/hobbies/rocketry/photos/13-mar-01/whitewings01.jpg

 

[Micromeister]

Very Cool Glider Sandman:
I've had the micro-maxx parts cut-out for over a year..just haven't put them together Sill playing with the trim on my micro flyiing jenny and red baron varient.
It's that space planes are hard to trim that has me worried, I have a hard time getting Good flying glider trimmed.. I likely lawn-dart mine if I ever get it built

 

[Micromeister]

Another of my Old time favorites...and my current flying model is really showing the ware now, is the Crusader Swing-Wing. Same general consturction as the Scissor Wing Transport with a Fighter style plastic nose cone. I wonder if it might be on the Re-release list with our buddies at Estes?

 

[graylensman]

Micro, if you mean "successful" by watching your glider disappear over a tree line... then count me in!

I cloned a Falcon as well. Biggest problem was a field big enough to fly it. Now that our new Richmond NAR section has found a suitable launch area, I'll probably get back into the boost gliders.

Which reminds me: according to NAR rules, you cannot fly a model that ejects the motor casing without some sort of recovery device. I guess that rules out future Falcons?

Back in the day, my dad built an Estes Sky Dart. Boosted perfectly straight up... when the power pod ejected, it returned perfectly straight down.

 

[Micromeister]

Which reminds me: according to NAR rules, you cannot fly a model that ejects the motor casing without some sort of recovery device. I guess that rules out future Falcons?

Not at all Greylens! Both my falcons were purchased as Estes kits..check the date on the pic haven't built one since thermalling the second away.. last seen Heading East over Rt 50 across the beltway & climbing!

While ture you cannot eject the motor casing alone, it's perfectly legal to tape a small streamer to the casing. I've altered a couple of Edmods motor ejection 1/4 and 1/2 A gliders increasing the motor pod tube from 13mm to 14mm or 18mm to 19mm that allows maskng taping and wrapping a small mylar streamer around the motor, before inserting in the pod. Usually I'll use a 2 x 8 or 10in pcs of mylar wrapping paper for the streamer. works perfectly and gets qualified flights. It wouldn't be very difficult to add a 19mm pod to a Falcon clone. I know I couldn't built (Make) it any worse

Anybody remember the Dragon Fly B/G?


Back in the day, my dad built an Estes Sky Dart. Boosted perfectly straight up... when the power pod ejected, it returned perfectly straight down. [/B][/QUOTE]

I build 2 skydart Clones recently using .030 styrene for the wing and tail, trying to get around the multi piece nasty filling and sanding warpy wing assembly. Only trouble was it and the Micro-Maxx version both ended up so heavy, I have to Chad stage a 10.5mm 1/2Amotor to the Micro-Maxx to get it to fly and use a C5-3 or D21 to lift the standard model..See you really can "overbuild" model rockets oh they both glide much like our Space shuttles 1 to 1 glide ratio

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by Micromister
Which reminds me: according to NAR rules, you cannot fly a model that ejects the motor casing without some sort of recovery device. I guess that rules out future Falcons?

Nope, Falcon designs would be fine. The trick is in interpreting the rules. Under said rules, it is acceptable if you have a streamer (for example) taped to the motor casing (even a small streamer)

 

[Micromeister]

That's what I said Jim. guess I need to leave tthe (Quote) marks

anyone built or flown any of QCR's Bi or Tir wing Gliders? This Tri-wing glides very pertty but tends to weather cock badly.

 

[powderburner]

The Estes Falcon was one of my first rockets, and it flew gooooood. One of these days I'm going to clone up another one.

Other old favorites: Centuri Swift (did I get that name right?), Astron Space Plane, Flying Jenny, and an old design published by Estes for a round-wing BG (looked like a flying saucer?) called the Invader (or something like that).

Lots of others. Have plans to make a flying Snoopy sometime, with ears for wings and feet for tails---someone else has already done this, so I know it is somehow do-able.

 

[sandman]

Yep, the Astron Invader!

https://www.dars.org/jimz/k-19.htm

sandman

 

[astronboy]

Well, I like gliders, it is just that mine do not fly very well....

I have a Tinee that does loops under power, and just built a spindly 1/4a QCR sliding wing rocket glider as part of a club project. I attempted to fly it on Sunday, and a wing came off after it left the rod. The remainder of the glider flew to apogee, popped, and came down as a pile of parts. So much for my first try at a competition rocket!!

Fred

 

[Missileman]

I have 2 glider ready to fly. Just waiting for the right weather and a proper engine for the one.
I have a Quest Flat Cat and a Hobby Labs SR71.
The SR71 is the one I am looking for an engine for. It stays in boost configuration only under thrust and then changes to glide after motor burnout. What I need is a long burn E or F plugged motor with an average impulse around 10 to 15 ns.

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by Micromister
That's what I said Jim. guess I need to leave tthe (Quote) marks

anyone built or flown any of QCR's Bi or Tir wing Gliders? This Tri-wing glides very pertty but tends to weather cock badly.

LOL

yep... i was rushing and only read the first lines in your note and assumed *you* were writing that...

oops!

well, great minds think alike! ( or know the same NAR trivia... )

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by sandman
Yep, the Astron Invader!

https://www.dars.org/jimz/k-19.htm

sandman

I have *yet* to see an invader fly right... Last year alone I saw 2 different ones loop coming off the pad... LOL

 

[SwingWing]

Gliders are like golf, some of the time you want to toss em in the pond,:kill: but then, one flies soooo good, it starts to make you think " this aint so hard, I can do this"

I have several of Rob Edmonds kits and they really do fly pretty good. I have an Ecee Thunder in the bag that is my next project.
I had a good flight with my Crusader clone (Balsa Nose Cone!!) last time out.

Gliders often gain nose weight from ejection crud and a model that glided (glid?) well yesterday sux today.

 

[sandman]

I have *yet* to see an invader fly right... Last year alone I saw 2 different ones loop coming off the pad... LOL

mmm...sounds like a challange to me!

sandman

 

[shockwaveriderz]

The ejecting engine with a streamer requirement applies ONLY to NAR competition......it does not apply to NAR or non-NAR sport flying....

Theres nothing in the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code or the NFPA codes that say you can't eject an engine without a streamer while sport flying....


last evening I was out back of my apt tossing a Bg for trimming....and well it ended up on top of the 2nd story apt building roof.....
When I got back home earlier this evening, I looked to see if it was still there, because duirng the preceding 24 hrs there had been a brief but violet thunderboomer that came through the area( I was 60 miles away up in Louisville working in a clients computer system)..anyway, the model was not there so I figured the wind and rain must have knowcked it downa dn some kid came along and picked it up.....on the way back to my apt, there at the end of the apt bulding was my glider, not even wet( tissued covered)..yeaaaaaaaaaaa this time I will get farther away from the apt building so it doesn't land on top....

 

[mikeyd]

One of my Favorites is the original Estes Citation Bomarc, another one is the Skydart, and I also had some nice flights with my SR-71, even did a Father/Son drag race at LDRS last year! A fun one I put together is my dual Robart's UFO booster, on a G. Here is a link to my web page, just look under "other" .
https://members.cox.net/shortckt4/main.htm
Here is a picture of a downscaled Skydart, I have not yet had time to fly!

 

[powderburner]

Originally posted by jflis
I have *yet* to see an invader fly right...

I still have the last one I built, and it used to fly great. Unfortunately, it is now more than 30 years old and the balsa has warped just a bit (imagine that) and it seems to be untrimmable. I'm just going to have to build another, then. I'll try to get some pix of the thing gliding, just for you Jim!

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by sandman
I have *yet* to see an invader fly right... Last year alone I saw 2 different ones loop coming off the pad... LOL

mmm...sounds like a challange to me!

sandman

Sandman:
While I've never build an Invader I did build something sorta similar from a plan in MR mag...WAY back the BAT b/g. I did add a few little extras and fly's like a BAT!

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by mikeyd
One of my Favorites is the original Estes Citation Bomarc,

I'm in the process of building a Scale citation Bomarc Glider, based on the bt-55 model but bring the model in ture scale dimensions with scale ram-jets and other detials. all the Bomarc gliders i've ever done. 13mm to BT-80 all have the same glide characteristics... They glide like a Brick! but I just love the styling so I keep on trying


another one is the Skydart, and I also had some nice flights with my SR-71, even did a Father/Son drag race at LDRS last year! A fun one I put together is my dual Robart's UFO booster, on a G. Here is a link to my web page, just look under "other" .
https://members.cox.net/shortckt4/main.htm
Here is a picture of a downscaled Skydart, I have not yet had time to fly!

Nice looking downscale: I'm gonna have to rebuild my micro glider portion with lighter materials so I don't have to chad stage it anymore, Flies great expect for the fact I have to use a now getting scarce 1/2A2 10.5mm motor to get it moving..20.15g just barely clears the 9" rod on a MM-II motor alone

 

[mikeyd]

Micromister, WOW you alwasy have such nice rockets! I love the Bat! would be interested in any templates you might have so it could be cloned. My original Bomarc has flow very well many times, it has always had a nice "flat" glide to it, but in keeping weight down, it has been prone for damage to the nose area. I keep having to find replacement, light weight plastic nose cones to fit over the stock Vacum form plug at the front. After it's last less than stellar flight, I might have to retire and build a new one. My last good flights with it were at a KRAMO meet in KS, at Lake Afton, I got two very good flat glides, then on the third, it did not blow the power pod and did a lawn dart. Which is just how this bird seems to go! I love boost gliders, but hate the trimming! Happy Flying!

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by mikeyd
Micromister, WOW you alwasy have such nice rockets! I love the Bat! would be interested in any templates you might have so it could be cloned. My original Bomarc has flow very well many times, it has always had a nice "flat" glide to it, Happy Flying!

I'll have to look up the Bat B/G patterns, or at least get you the Model Rocketeer issue it appeared in...mid's to late 70's I think. I have to admit that one boosts like a bullet, kicks the motor casing and settles into a very nice glide even with the added ears and scolloped vertical stabs may take a day or so to find the OLD stuff, but I'm sure I have it in the files

My gliding Bomarc's have the same Flat 1 to 1 glide ratio as Space shuttle, very stable just very short! Heres a 3 pic of my 13mm 1:47th gliding scale bomarc that didn't fair so well either on its maiden competiton flight using FX smoker motors in the Ram-jets and an A10-3T.. Setup the model to close to the jet deflector causing a back burn on the lower body.. Flight was perfect to apogee and pod eject, the Glide just sucked cannel water! maybe 1/2 to 1

 

[billeblurzz]

How about a glider for cruising the upper atmospheres of the GAS GIANTS: by Steve Hayhurst

 

[Stewart32]

I have flown this model many times and has alway proven fun if not exasperating (the thermal chase: "come down dad-gummit")
Also have Estes ARV Condor, but have yet to fly.

Looking forward to more gliders, any suggestions?

 

[shockwaveriderz]

stewart: consider attaching a DT, a Dethermalizer fuse to the Flat Cat and use a beer can DT...

A beercan DT is a strip of the aluminum beverage can, that is held down by a nylon string or rubber band and the fuse burns through it allowing the strips to spring out causing wind interference....or you can use a drop weight....a couple grams max weight that is realeased....

"The "beer can" DT was popular at MIT because of its first step, empty a can of beer! A piece of the aluminum can is deployed as a flap from the INSIDE of the fuselage. This acts as a drag break, and causes the glider to slowly spiral down." Can you say BURP ? B)


and there are of cousre my favs, the silly putty DT's....


DT fuse can be had at SIG manufacturing online... https://www.sigmfg.com


Some gliders that you might want to look at include the old CMR Manta's which are still competitive some 30 years later... plans are at https://www.rocketshoppe.com/