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Neil

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Well, call me Doctor Frankeinstein, I have created another monster. I was just in Home Depot getting some X-mas shopping done (since my mom is not in the room at the moment it is safe to tell you all that I got her a Dremmel tool. She has wanted one for her soapstone carving for a long time, and of course I get to borrow!!), and lo and behold I saw some 8" sono-tube for about a buck a foot!!! So, I am going to save up some money andbuy 4 tubes, a lot of plywood, a couple yards of fiberglass, and some foam for the nose cone. I am going to glue two smaller peices of plywood together for the fins, and have some heavy fiberglass in between for extra strenth. My dad is going to be changing his guitar strings and I get the E string for hot-wiring the foam. The cone wont be exact, but I dont need it to. It will fly on anything from a J570 to an M1315. I am putting a 75MM motor mount in it so I do not get temped to start buying N2000s. I would loose all of my hard work on the rocket, because it would just flooaaat away.... Ill post the Spacecad file. It is really cool.... I cant wait to start it!
 

Ryan S.

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I am also working on a sono tube rocket, very very cheap. But, those sono tubes suck up alot of epoxy

Another way to make a cone is with a simple lathe. All you need to do is make a rough wood frame and use your power drill with a long wooden dowel stuck through the chuck

there is an article on info central. under construction called foam turning.

http://www.info-central.org/index.cgi?construction

I just need to get a motor mount for mine....I am debating a 3" or the 4" mailing tube I have
 
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Austin

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Neil, when and where do you plan on flying this rocket? Also, have you ever used electronics? Sounds to me like you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit with such a project.

Carl
 

Neil

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Everyone says that.... Yes, I have used electronics before, I have a field that can handle things this big with ease, and I plan on flying it on a J370GG or a J570W in Cherryfield and then a K530GG or K550W at LDRS if I have the money. I am getting an old Pratt ECS2B for it and my other big project, that PVC rocket. I may also consider flying it on that new K450BB. I like the long burn on it (4 seconds. One of the longer burning AMW motors). This thing is going to be capable of flying on an M2500GG. That would be once I am MUCH older, though. I am not going to start flying L3 motors for a while now. L2 has plenty of challenges for me to meet, and I see no reason to start spending hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on Ms untill I a 15 or 16 and have a job, or, more likely, when I am 18, L3 certified, and have my own LEUP. Here I go being practical again.... HEHE. I can hardly justify saying "again"....

Besides, I have half a year to make this thing, I am going to take my time on it, and it is going to be very carefully made. The size is half the challenge, and that is a challenge I have wanted to meet for some time now! Now I just gotta get my dad to certify L2... Maybe he will want to make a sono-tube rocket too... He seems to like the idea of inexpensive rockets....
 
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Austin

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It sounds to me like you are going too fast at it Neil. You may wish to slow down a bit and enjoy the many other aspects of rocketry before delving into such a large project. Also, you need to realize that a L3 capable rocket is not just put together like any other of the kits or models you may have scratch built, but rather it must have structural re-inforcements to handle both the weight and stress that come with a model of this size.

I don't believe you have the experience to design in this manner...mind you, this is no downfall on your part. Moreover, since no one in your family is capable of flying such a rocket, you may wish to hold off until the proper certifications are in place and several L2 flights have been accomplished. Also don't forget that if it is going to be an L2 rocket, they and not yourself will be building it, so that kind of defeats the purpose of you trying to build one anyway. Go slow...and enjoy...

One more thought...you cannot get an LEUP until you are 21...so unless you parents file for one, you would have to wait on the motors until then, when you are legally allowed to posess them.

Carl
 

Neil

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Well, hate to disagree with you, but if that is your view on this, then I am afraid I will have to. I know perfectly well this will need a lot of structural reinforcements, and I believe I can manage it. My dad is about to certify level two, and I see no reason that I should not begin to assemble a few rockets. I have put a lot of thought into this, and I have even spoken to some people who have made rockets in this exact manner. I know how to slot fin slots, I know how to cut fins, I know how to make centering rings, i know how to fiberglass tubes, I am still learning how to hot-wire foam but I know plenty of people who can give good advice on that little bit of it. I believe I am entirely capable of making a rocket this size, and I think I am about to prove it by making this rocket. and dont get me wrong, I will NOT be flying this thing on L3 motors for about 6-8 years, if I do at all. I am going to take my time on this, and it is going to come out RIGHT. I have built a lot of smaller rockets, and I see no point in delaying my advance in this hobby. I have already buld several level two capable birds, even a couple that can break the sound barrier. Basically what I am saying is that I think I can handle this. I have the support of my family and almost everyone else I have ran this idea by. If you are going to try to convince my not to make this rocket I advise you not to waste your breath. My dad thinks it is a good idea, my best friend thinks it is a good idea, and the smartest rocketeer I know thinks it is a good idea, and I think it is a good idea, and that is enough for me. I have built rockets as complex as this, just not quite as big. I believe I have all the skills neccesary to make this and other rockets this complex. I have designd rockets big enough to reach space, I have no plans to make them, though. I know my limits, and this rocket is within them. You may think otherwise, but I have all the support I need to go ahead with this. I am not going to listen to vauge things like "I dont think you have the neccesary skills". I will, of course, listen to specific things you think I need to know. Please go ahead and tell me what you dont think I know, so I can learn them and apply them to this rocket. Thank you very much.
 
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Austin

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Neil,

You may disagree as much as you want...the facts are the I would not let any twelve year old build and fly a Level 3 rocket... period! The rules back this up...you will not be able to fly it for at leat 6 years...you can say you did all you want, but you legally cannot fly and that is a fact. There are reasons for this, one in particular is called maturity. So please don't tell us how you plan on building and flying a Level 3 rocket as it is not going to happen until you are of age. I wish you well with your build as you can do this all you want. Just let us know when you decide to put that M2500 in it so we can be several states away.

You appear to be a gifted child with the support of your parents, which I think is fantastic. However, you also appear to be lacking in patience, which is key to a successful learning curve. You may have built rockets in the past that are L1 or L2 capable, but have they been proof tested as level 2 worhty....no. I am simply stating that you need to take your time , enjoy the hobby as is and don't rush into a Level 3 build when you have yet to fly a Level 1 or 2 rocket. Do it if you must, but keep it to yourself, as those of us that have accomplished this may find it annoying.

Carl
 

rstaff3

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Carl wasn't attacking you 'skills' but was giving advice learned from experience. You may or may not have the skills to build a L3, but from your description of the project, your capabilities, and your past project, it is not at all clear that you do. So he was just giving the same prudent advice that most L3s would share.

To go for L3 you'll have to go thru a TAP process (or the NAR equivalent) where you will either heed advice from guys like Carl or you won't be allowed to cert.

Anyway, we are still interested in your project and maybe more specific adivice will be useful as you progress.

Oh, one more thing...sono-tubes are indeed great. I especially am interested in your BIG cone ;)
 

MarkABrown

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Originally posted by Neil
Besides, I have half a year to make this thing, I am going to take my time on it, and it is going to be very carefully made.
Most Level 3 projects take at least a year or more to build. You should check out Carl's level 3 AMRAAM page.
Originally posted by Neil
My dad thinks it is a good idea, my best friend thinks it is a good idea, and the smartest rocketeer I know thinks it is a good idea, and I think it is a good idea, and that is enough for me.
Do any of these people have the level of experience as Carl? Are any of them level 3 certified?
Originally posted by Neil
I plan on flying it on a J370GG or a J570W in Cherryfield and then a K530GG or K550W at LDRS if I have the money...I may also consider flying it on that new K450BB. I like the long burn on it (4 seconds. One of the longer burning AMW motors).
A "K" motor is a serious lot of power! Neil, I have to agree with Carl. You've not indicated in your posts that you have the necessary experience to build a model that can handle these motors safely. As the motor impulse goes up, there are a whole new set of rules regarding structural integrity. It's alot more than plywood, cardboard, some epoxy and fiberglass with a foam nosecone. I too would want to be several states away.

You'll get a lot further in this hobby if you learn to swallow your pride, recognize those with experience and ask politely, from those people, valid questions rather than spouting off what you're gonna do.
 

eugenefl

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Originally posted by CTulanko
Neil,
Just let us know when you decide to put that M2500 in it so we can be several states away.
Carl
At least I'm in Hawaii.... :D :kill:
 

Justy

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Originally posted by Neil
I saw something like that foam turner somewhere else, I cant think where. I think I will just take my best shot at it without the turner. It wont make too much of a difference if it is not perfectly conical.
Something like this?
http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/construction/styrofoamfixture.aspx

The nose may not have to be perfect, but especially if you're planning to use this rocket for M motors someday, it certainly won't hurt to shape it as accurately as you can.

Can you really fly something that big on a J370? What's the altitude sim out to?

I suggest the following: draft up your plans, have a certified RSO go over them, let him/her approve them or comment on them, THEN start building. This is how the CAR requires L4 (M+) exams to be done, and I'm planning on doing it for my L2 (I) and L3 (J,K,L) exams even though it's not required; getting other people to check my work means they might catch something I missed BEFORE my rocket shreds. It'll get examined again by the RSO before it can be launched, of course, and you'll also be asked to explain in detail a few things (how did you determine stability, how did you figure out how much BP to use in the ejection charges, explain how you packed the chute, etc).

Here's Ian Stephens' Black Brant X level 4 certification package, and while he hasn't updated to say so, it flew successfully. I watched it, it was the first rocket over H impulse I'd ever seen, and it was an M1315. The noise that thing made, even from the away pad... and thus was I forever hooked on HPR. :D But anyway, check that document out.

Many experienced rocketeers told my friend that his L2 rocket, a PML Little Lunar Express, was going to shred. He was confident. He launched. And, well, I think we found all the parts except for two of the wingtip teardrop pods. That was a professionally designed kit, built as directed.
 

MarkABrown

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Originally posted by Justy
Many experienced rocketeers told my friend that his L2 rocket, a PML Little Lunar Express, was going to shred. He was confident. He launched. And, well, I think we found all the parts except for two of the wingtip teardrop pods. That was a professionally designed kit, built as directed.
Hehehe, ask Kermie about the power of a "K" motor. ;)
 

Neil

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I have been offended by your saying that you want to make sure you put a few states in between you and my rocket. And, mark, matter of fact the "experienced rocketeer" IS L3 certified and has just as much experience as Carl. And, as I have already said, I am proabably not going to fly it on an M or N, so would you stop referring to it as an "L3 bird", because it is not. I am going to do my best on the nosecone, and everything else on the rocket. And I will, of course, show the finsished rocket, in person, to an L3 certified peson who has been in this a lot longer than me. If he says it is unsafe, it does not fly. End of story. If he thinks it is safe, and it flies well, at least I can say I did it, and you can stop doubting me and promising to head for the hills next time I fly it.

While only one of those people I mentiond are L3 certified, none of them are stupid. My dad most certainly would not let me buy a motor if it was unsafe. Gotta run now, talk again later.
 

Ryan S.

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well, Neil, it is goo you want to go bigger but you should take it slower. When I was your age I also wanted to do the same thing you are doing now. I got all the peices together then realized how dumb I was being. I had no clue what I was doing then and the rocket definantly would have cause some damage. I even do that now....but then that was only 4 years ago

I dont think you should be offended, what they are saying is true. These motors are huge and you really need to be far away from them to be completly safe. Think how far a K or L could push a rocket sideways or if the casing got loose, imagine how far it could go

Lastly, I do not think that the person you are referring to has as much experience as Carl. Carl is a very knowledgable person who gladly spreads his knowledge to other people. He also has an in depth understanding of the rules of rocketry. I do know who you are talking about and he is a smart rocketeer, but after meeting both people I would listen to Carl, or at least think over what he has typed. It is definantly valid.

One thing that you need with a project like this is experience, you need to gain that experince by launching smaller rockets and working your way up. Have you ever launched more than an H? I know before I fired mine I talked to people and watcched what they did.

I think you should listen to the people on this forum as they are the smartest people around, they know what they are talking about. I know sometimes it is hard to suck it up and bite the bullet because you want to be right and you really want to do something. And everyone knows kids are always right ;)

Seriously look at the facts. You are 12, you have done rockets for maybe 4 years (maybe longer I dont know) Most of these other people have kids your age or older and have been flying rockets longer than you have been alive. (its the same for me) I think they know what they are talking about....with those facts I would consider listening to what they are sayingg
 

BlueNinja

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Not trying to load ya down with stuff.... I also think you should take things slower, and I will ask what Ryan asked: Have you ever fired more than an H? I have never launched anything bigger than a D12, and I have been into rocketry for about 2 1/2 years now. I plan on making an E flight next year sometime, but that's the highest I will go for a while. I really want to go bigger, can ya blame anyone for wanting to? Maybe not a few states away, that's overstating it. Half a mile- a mile away, yes. Things are a lot worse when a K motor fails or pops out than a G.

Just my 2 cents

Blue
 

Rocketman248

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Neil, here's what you gotta do. First of all, don't take offense at what they are saying. They do have a lot of experience. You should use that to your advantage. My advice is to build the rocket nice and slow. To get them off your back, ask a lot of questions and do what they say. Then take pictures of the build process and say: "am I doing this right?" They'll help you every step of the way if you ask for it. The only way they won't help, is if you don't take pictures. They get testy when that happens.;)

I've met Carl. Sure he looks kinda scary in pictures, but he's a nice guy. And, he really knows what he's talking about.

BTW, You can be mad at Eugene. He's in Hawaii.:mad: ;) :D

Did I mention we like pics?
 

BlueNinja

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I've met Carl before and yes, he is nice. If you want to build, as far as i'm concerned, build all ya want. Flying however... That's another story.


Couldn't help asking.... Kermie, what about the power of a K motor?
 

havoc821

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Ok, I've read enough fuss about this. If Neil wants to build a big rocket, let him. It's "his" rocket, "his" money, and his problem if it shreds. This is a forum where you should give advice and ENCOURAGE!! people, not put them down. The funny thing I find through this is I'm building a rocket that can handle the same power as his and no one has complained yet about mine and I am only 3 years older that Neil (I'm 15). My rocket is "capable" of holding Ms but I will only fly it on I-K for now. By the time Neil gets L3 the rocket probably still be in good condition anyways so let the kid enjoy what he is doing. And yes, he can fly high power motors with or without his dad. All he has to do is find someone with a casing, hand them the motor money and the rocket and let them press the button. As long as the RSO thinks the rocket is safe then there is NOTHING wrong with that. I don't think it is anybodys place to tell him how much knowledge he has. If he thinks he knows how, let him and if he needs help, he will ask. That's all I have to say.

Neil,

Go For It!!! Have fun building this rocket, take your time and don't rush it and get lots of pictures. Good luck with your project and don't let anybody get in your way of what you love to do.
 

havoc821

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One other thing. I thought the comment made about the smartest rocketeer that Neil knows was rude. It seems like Carl is the god or encyclopedia of rocket construction (no offense to you Carl) and everybody falls under him. Carl is a very smart man buit others shouldn't be judged to him. I think that ya'll should just give thi kid a break and stop talking about L3, he already said he wasn't going to fly L3 for many many years. An it doesn't take a year to build a L3 rocket unless it is Gates Brothers size. Carl may have some rockets that big, I don't know but the time it takes to build a rocket depends on how dedicated you are to getting it done. I hope I dind't offend anyone. I was just trying to show you the other side to things. That's all.
 

Ryan S.

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Originally posted by havoc821
and his problem if it shreds.

This is a forum where you should give advice and ENCOURAGE!! people, not put them down. The funny thing I find through this is I'm building a rocket that can handle the same power as his and no one has complained yet about mine and I am only 3 years older that Neil (I'm 15). My rocket is "capable" of holding Ms but I will only fly it on I-K for now. By the time Neil gets L3 the rocket probably still be in good condition anyways so let the kid enjoy what he is doing. And yes, he can fly high power motors with or without his dad. All he has to do is find someone with a casing, hand them the motor money and the rocket and let them press the button. As long as the RSO thinks the rocket is safe then there is NOTHING wrong with that. I don't think it is anybodys place to tell him how much knowledge he has. If he thinks he knows how, let him and if he needs help, he will ask. That's all I have to say.
what if it hits someone? Then it will be their problem too. And what if it shreds at LDRS in front of ATF agents that may be present. They might begin to bear down more on rocketry.

I think what everyone is doing is giving advice, and they are encouraging but encouraging at a later time when the flight will be safer and have a higher chance of working. I have rockets that are capable of holding Ms, and one that could hold an N2000. I have also flew H, I, and a J motor as well as helping with many high power flights including a M1315 flight. I am also building a Mission Impossible. The point is those 3 years can make a huge difference.

By the way he cannot fly without his dad like you said. well he could but it is agianst the rules. He is uncertified so should not have a high power motor in his possesion.

Can he do it? Maybe but, the chances of it shredding are much higher
 

KermieD

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Originally posted by PGerringer
Now that is just cruel Mark! :D
LOL...Thanks, Phil!! Have I told you that you're my new favorite?
 

DPatell

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I too am building a sono tube rocket, and lemme tell you, it's at least a year in the making. It's not something I just threw together, it's a large project whether it's on a J or an M. It has a 3" motor mount and will hopefully see some L EX motors.

Get a feel for your electronics in some smaller rockets. Practice fiberglassing on smaller rockets. Get a feel for every aspect of the larger project in a smaller scale. I wouldn't reccommend a 12 year old doing it either. I know I am only 15, but I certainly have done my Homework in the past 3 years. It all doesn't come over night.

Plan it all out, sim it out, build something smaller testing the ideas, fly it, and come back to us with proof that you can do it. Get your dad involved, My dad and I bounce ideas off each other's brains all of the time, and that avoids any major problems.

Don't rush, slow down and enjoy the ride! Most of the time, a lot of H, I, J and K motors is a lot more fun than a single M.

My attempt at setting things straight. Does anyone else notice the source of almost every rant/argument?
 

daveyfire

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My two cents... long post ahead!

I've been there, done that. This hobby has been my obsession since I was seven. I've built and flown A LOT of rockets in the past nine years. I went to my first LDRS when I was 12 years old. And there, with my dad, we successfully flew two J motors, several I motors, and lots of smaller rockets.

I have built a Quik Tube rocket, and it's a lot more involved than it seems on the surface. There's a lot more structure inside the airframe than there is on a phenolic or 'glass rocket because of the weak nature of the tubing. And the rockets get real heavy, real quick. On the Nike-Smoke I'm working on (which I am, I swear! :D ), the tubes only weigh about 2 lbs each. But this rocket is going to have to be capable of withstanding the force of at least 3, perhaps 5, 75mm M motors. So I'm gonna have to add a lot of structure behind it.

When I built "No Sniveling", I figured it might come in around 15-20 lbs. The original intent of that rocket was to fly the Kosdon 2550 case. But as things progressed, I couldn't get it to come in around that weight with the structural requirements I had for the rocket. It ended up at 25 lbs DRY. This is a 7.5" Quik Tube rocket. Building with 8", it's highly unlikely the rocket will be light enough for even very thrusty K motors while being strong enough for an M2500GG.


When designing rockets, three years (or more) will definitely make a difference. In the four years since I was 12, M motors became commonplace, composite technology advanced, EX became mainstream, and I gained a huge amount of understanding about the hobby. Granted, I probably could have flown an M at LDRS XVII, but something probably would have gone wrong in the flight. Under the huge forces of a K or L or M motor, things go wrong that you don't expect them to. Example: these motors (especially 98mms) exhibit quite a bit of vibration in flight. If you aren't prepared for it, this may set up a flutter wave in your fins much faster than expected, and tear them off.

Now Neil, you seem a bit ticked off at the moment, and what I'm about to say may tick you off a little more, but it's stuff that I've learned going through exactly the same thing you are. It sounds like all of these projects you're mentioning (PVC rocket, sonotube rocket, etc.) are being run on a shoestring budget. I think you'd be much happier with the outcome of your projects, and a lot less stressed on launch day, if you focused your time and energy on one project until it is completed, then move onto the next. Little things crop up in the midst of these projects -- you need assorted hardware, more epoxy, more fiberglass, etc. These all add up to a good chunk of $$ you spent on the project. If you short-change each project and don't complete it with the best materials, et al., you are risking an in-flight failure. After building and flying one Quik Tube rocket, I don't want to build or fly any more. I'd much rather go about it the usual way, with fiberglass or phenolic airframes and such. These things take a lot of time to build, and even more to fly. Also, prepping a K motor rocket is MUCH more time consuming than prepping an H or I motor rocket. I can get off 4 or 5 Hs or Is before lunch now, but I can barely fly one K motor, even with pre-prep the night before. An M motor takes me all day. Basically, you'll be lucky to get one big project off the ground at an LDRS, much less three.

Also, from what I've read, you don't have the construction or reinforcement skills to properly construct a project capable of withstanding a K motor, much less an M. These things require lots of epoxy and materials which will properly accept the epoxy. PVC does not count. In that particular rocket, upon ignition, 10:1, your motor mount will fly up through the rocket and off into the sunset because epoxy does not stick to PVC. If you're flying a 30 lb rocket with a 7:1 T/W ratio off the pad (not unreasonable), that's 210 lbs of force in shear against the airframe walls.

For what it's worth, my advice is the same as everyone else's. Work your way up slowly. Fly a couple Is, then a couple Js. Then a K or a small L. Enjoy the process -- you can fly 6 K550Ws for the price of an M1939W.

These larger motors pack a surprising amount of thrust -- a K motor will take a fiberglass 4" rocket 8000 feet, an L motor over 12,000 feet, and a mid-size M motor will take a 40 lb, 6" rocket over 11,000 feet. There's a lot more to flying these things than simply sticking together a bunch of pieces and flying the rocket.

But if you do choose to press ahead with this project, here are a couple things to keep in mind:

  1. Electronics -- what sort of electronics will you use? On an L motor or above flight, I'd use at least two units to back each other up. How will you contain them in the rocket? How will they be switched on? What will the gas seals be made out of? What will you use to fire the deployment charges?
  2. Recovery -- what are the hard points for the recovery system? Closed eyebolts or U-bolts are a must. Dual deployment or single deployment? Will you use a deployment bag with a pilot chute? Make sure you know how to pack a d-bag for successful deployment. What other flame protection will you use? Dog barf wadding does not count ;)
  3. Airframe integrity -- is the tubing strong enough to handle the dynamic loads of the flight? What about the recovery forces? Will the design zipper on deployment? What sort of reinforcement, if any, are you using? How is it being applied? Pantyhose is not a wise choice for high-stress airframes.
  4. Fin integrity -- is the fin material appropriate for the power class and velocity anticipated? Remember, if you plan to fly M motors, the rocket is an M motor bird, and should be constructed as such. Will the fins flutter? If using plywood, are the leading edges properly treated to avoid delamination in flight? How are the fins attached?
  5. Motor mount integrity -- how many and what thickness of centering rings are you using? How are they attached to the body tube? Is there a method to positively retain the motor casing? Is there a method to positively connect the recovery system to the aft centering ring?
    [/list=1]

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and that's not all of it. I'm sure I left out some points. But you have to remember, the peak thrust on an M1315W is nearly 600 lbs. An M2500GG will have even more thrust than that. You're stacking a gorilla on your rocket in more ways than one :p Will it be built to handle it? And if it's not, will you be emotionally prepared to lose everything that you have put into it?

    From my point of view, as a 16 year old, and having experienced the exact same thing. YMMV.
 

daveyfire

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Originally posted by havoc821
An it doesn't take a year to build a L3 rocket unless it is Gates Brothers size.
BTW, GBR built Porthos II in two days. Of course, it took three weeks to finish all the glassing and painting, but that was handled professionally. FWIW.
 

Ryan S.

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hahaha that is true. But dont they screw them together? If you did it the regular way with epoxy and lots of glass etc, by yourself. It ouwld probably take a year.......they do take a while
 

DPatell

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Haha....if I had the GB's money supply......ohh my, I will stop dreaming, I'm drooling:rolleyes:

I for one can prove my worthiness as a rocketeer with one flight, and that was my Magnum on a K670GG. 4493', perfect dual deployment after a perfectly straight boost, 100' from the pad landing. Anyone else have a specific flight that stands out?
 
A

Austin

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Obviously this thread is going nowhere real fast. I appreciate everyone's input and hope Neil would learn that he may be taking too big a step, but alas, the final decision is his to make. We can only attempt to steer him in the right direction, which I think most everyone has attempted.

A couple points to clear up...Havoc, I believe we were all trying to encourage him to build slow and take it easy and we did not put him down; you may have read too much into it. Ryan hit it right on the head when he stated that Neil legally cannot just hand someone money for a motor like you stated as it would be very illegal to sell a HPR motor to a minor. Also, he cannot fly HPR rockets without his dad or a certified individual. There is not a LCO that would let a 12 yr old walk up with any HPR rocket and launch without adult supervision.

Also, Havoc, a Level 3 project may not take a complete year to complete, but it does take at least many months and I have seen a trend where the length it takes to complete the project is directly proportional to the level of successful certification. Everyone may know of someone that did it sooner, but I am stating trends. Moreover, Neil stated right off that "This thing is going to be capable of flying on an M2500GG"...so yes, he was building an L3 project.

Neil has been given quite a bit of good advice here, which is what the forum is all about. Moreover, I do not claim to be the know all of Level 3; there are many others out there that have more experience but we all learn from eachother and I still learn new things every day. That is where the difference appears to present itself. We are mature enough to accept contructive criticism where as Neil, obviously due to age and maturity, is not able to do so. That is his decision...we can only help as much as possible; as a member of the NAR Level 3 Certification Comittee, I feel it is my job to promote positive reinforcement and constructive criticism or assistance to help my fellow fliers.....kind of like paying them back for the assistance I have received over the years. However, it's up the receiver whether or not he or she wants to listen. But then again...it is once again up to me whether or not I certify them Level 3.

This thread seems to have gotten out of hand, all because a 12 year old could not handle some suggestions. Next time Neil, I suggest you not start off by spouting what you wish to do, but rather present an idea...it's the more mature thing to do, would be more readily accepted and would help avoid such conflicts in the future.

Carl
 

rocwizard

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Originally posted by daveyfire
My two cents... long post ahead!

I've been there, done that.....(Comments edited to save space)

.....That's all I can think of off the top of my head, and that's not all of it. I'm sure I left out some points. But you have to remember, the peak thrust on an M1315W is nearly 600 lbs. An M2500GG will have even more thrust than that. You're stacking a gorilla on your rocket in more ways than one :p Will it be built to handle it? And if it's not, will you be emotionally prepared to lose everything that you have put into it?

From my point of view, as a 16 year old, and having experienced the exact same thing. YMMV.

What david said;)


I also am building a quik tube rocket. a 7.5" upscale SUMO. 78" long, using a single 4' piece of quik tube. I originally had hopes of keeping it light enough to fly on a single K660 or K700W. Ha! It is now looking like I will be lucky if I can get it up on an L850W.:eek: Granted I am building it to fly on up to a 6" N motor, I doubt you can keep the rocket you are building light enough for J and K motors while keeping it capable of flying on an M. right now, i an hoping to keep the weight of my rocket below 35 pounds.:eek: we'll see. for now, here is a pic of my, and the "rocket" so far.
 

rocwizard

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BTW so far, only the kevlar sock has been applied to the tube.

now HERE is the pic:kill:
 
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