I plan on going down to Pueblo this weekend to get my Level 1 Cert using my scratch built rocket. But I am afrd -- very, very afrd! 
So, what is the biggest thing holding you back from getting your Level One HPR Certification?
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How is the stability on that? Those forward fins look pretty big.
That rocket looks sick, beautiful for a scratch built
I had some great, great guidance -- and significant help with RockSim at the front end of this effort -- and the thing really seems to soar. Stays in the cone and tops out at about 3200 feet. CG is at 20.6657 and CP is at 28.0676 and Margin is 1.84.
tsmith1315
Well-Known Member
Good to hear you're flying it and not making it a shelf queen. Good luck, certify in style!
Oh gosh, I drive my old cars and fly my rockets!
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How much nose weight did it take to get the CG that far forward?
For me the delay was the cost of membership for NAR or Tripoli. They're both equally expensive and I just don't see the value. There should be something like a NAR membership tier that's half the price for people who don't want the magazine.
Being held back by not enough time on my hands and working long hours to boot. My level 1 attempt bird is getting closer to completion though.
No additional weight, just a 3D printed nosecone with a bulkhead, eye bolt and parachute stuffed inside.
OC-Patrick
Well-Known Member
personally never really seriously considered it, what are the benefits to obtaining L1?
For me it was finding a club that I wanted to fly with. I attended a bunch of launches for a few different clubs in my area and didn't really fit into any of them until I found Fox Valley. These are a really great group of people to fly with. I didn't want to just show up at some launch with my rocket and expect them to let me fly for my level 1 but I'm finding out that isn't all that uncommon.
I bought my Level 1 Rocket in Feb. 2020 and built it with hopes of flying in spring and well of course that didn't pan out the way I wanted. Fast forward to Spring of 2022. The club has a seed farm that they fly at early and late in the season. The spring launch was cancelled as the field looked more like a lake so I waited until Nov. 2022 to finally fly and certify.
I bought my Level 1 Rocket in Feb. 2020 and built it with hopes of flying in spring and well of course that didn't pan out the way I wanted. Fast forward to Spring of 2022. The club has a seed farm that they fly at early and late in the season. The spring launch was cancelled as the field looked more like a lake so I waited until Nov. 2022 to finally fly and certify.
In addition to access to H and I motors, L1 means one can fly sparkies as well as those mid-power motors that fall outside the model rocket definition; e.g., G125.
Nothing to be afraid of. My first launch was a bit intimidating. I did not fly anything, but I attended just to meet folks. If you have not done that, I recommend it.I plan on going down to Pueblo this weekend to get my Level 1 Cert using my scratch built rocket. But I am afrd -- very, very afrd!
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Are you aware of the liability insurance provided to members for all their rocket activities? Even if you don't do high power, it goes a long way towards convincing people to let you fly on their land.
I think that is a great idea. I have attended a couple of launches, but this will be my first time actually stepping up to the line with something on the line!
Good. Meeting the folks and getting to know them can help alleviate stress and anxiety. The first day I attended was a research launch with multiple CATOs. It let me know that there are worse things than a simply a failed flight.
You got this!
Went to my first "big time" launch last May. It was an OROC event in Brothers, OR. Big metropolis, except there are no flush toilets around. Come to think of it, no restaurants, no gas stations, no.....
Anyway, I was very intimidated until I hung around a bit and talked to a lot of people. Very diverse group, lots of rockets in virtually every motor class. One young guy set up his camp tent right beside the RSO table, he must have had 20 LPR rockets. Others had monsters that took 2 or 3 people to carry to the pad. I flew 2 MPR, scared to death that I was going to do something wrong. But everyone was very friendly and helpful. And often humorous and humble.
If schedules and weather come together, I'll likely try L1 there in April or May. Got the bird ready, a couple of test flights under it's belt.
Hans.
Not a bad first rocket - low and slow.
And pretty!
I had a previous similar sized rocket that came down hard on a fin, putting a dent in the body tube. So this one is double walled, couplers epoxied in place for most of the length. Surprisingly, it didn't add as much weight as I expected. It's also the first time I put on rail buttons. As I was too lazy to mask for stripes, they came supplied via Stickershock23.
Hans,
That’s why you put your phone down before you mix up the 5 min epoxy. But at least you have your phone to call for help?
You can buy bigger motors to either fly heavier rockets, and/or fly yours higher.
To answer the OP’s question, I don’t have enough experience at MPR to scratch build a cert rocket. So the fact that I want to scratch build my cert rockets is holding me back. But when I got back into the hobby, I put getting my HPR 3 as a 10 year project. If I fly a 29mm MPR composite motor this summer, I think I’ll be ahead of schedule.
True story... Not naming names, but a real rocketeer we all admire .. on the workbench, always had a bottle of acetone, ready for countering runaway CA glue. Glued hand to workbench, ha no prob, but the acetone was *just* out of reach. Fortunately wife came home not too long after.
tsmith1315
Well-Known Member
More fire, more noise, more smoke?
I think I would have just put on long pants and gone about my business.
OK, back to the original subject:
I think the biggest impediment to L1 cert is the logistics. Find a venue (at least a 4 hour drive for me), arrange for an L2 (or a couple of L1s) to supervise and sign off on the attempt, and then scrub the whole thing because the weather didn't cooperate. Oops. That sounded a bit pessimistic.
At Brothers, OR, L2 guys are a dime a dozen. But most are busy, and I suppose many would be reluctant to witness because they may not be familiar with me, and/or my rocket. I have a friend who could do it. So far, I've only hinted, and he either hasn't taken the bait, or he might be ignoring my thinly veiled requests because he isn't interested in getting involved. Dunno. Eventually I'll have to directly ask.
But one aspect of the cert procedure has me puzzled. And I quote: "The Level 1 High Power Certification Candidate must assemble the reloadable motor, if used, in the presence of a Certification Team member."
So let me get this straight. I have to obtain a motor system (in this case an AT 29/180) that I've never used before, and assemble it while my L2 guy is (im)patiently standing by whilst I fumble with instructions that I'm not familiar with. While the wind is blowing.
I'm familiar with the 29/40-120 and it's my understanding that it's bigger brother is similar. But not the same. And the first time I loaded the 29/40-120, I read over the instructions multiple times, and practice loaded it (no o-rings, etc.) a couple of times until I was positive I knew how it went together. I know, overkill. But I didn't want to screw up. I'd like to be able to do this with the H motor before having to load it up "for real". Also, I've seen a few cases where the reload components didn't quite fit, were either too tight - requiring light sanding or even a paper layer peeled - or too loose requiring a wrap of tape. Even found an Aerotech video demonstrating this.
Because of this, I'm considering a single use motor.
Anyway - onward!
Hans.
I think the biggest impediment to L1 cert is the logistics. Find a venue (at least a 4 hour drive for me), arrange for an L2 (or a couple of L1s) to supervise and sign off on the attempt, and then scrub the whole thing because the weather didn't cooperate. Oops. That sounded a bit pessimistic.
At Brothers, OR, L2 guys are a dime a dozen. But most are busy, and I suppose many would be reluctant to witness because they may not be familiar with me, and/or my rocket. I have a friend who could do it. So far, I've only hinted, and he either hasn't taken the bait, or he might be ignoring my thinly veiled requests because he isn't interested in getting involved. Dunno. Eventually I'll have to directly ask.
But one aspect of the cert procedure has me puzzled. And I quote: "The Level 1 High Power Certification Candidate must assemble the reloadable motor, if used, in the presence of a Certification Team member."
So let me get this straight. I have to obtain a motor system (in this case an AT 29/180) that I've never used before, and assemble it while my L2 guy is (im)patiently standing by whilst I fumble with instructions that I'm not familiar with. While the wind is blowing.
I'm familiar with the 29/40-120 and it's my understanding that it's bigger brother is similar. But not the same. And the first time I loaded the 29/40-120, I read over the instructions multiple times, and practice loaded it (no o-rings, etc.) a couple of times until I was positive I knew how it went together. I know, overkill. But I didn't want to screw up. I'd like to be able to do this with the H motor before having to load it up "for real". Also, I've seen a few cases where the reload components didn't quite fit, were either too tight - requiring light sanding or even a paper layer peeled - or too loose requiring a wrap of tape. Even found an Aerotech video demonstrating this.
Because of this, I'm considering a single use motor.
Anyway - onward!
Hans.
I agree; some rocketeers can do mid- or even high-power launches in their back yard, because they live on the edge of PartsUnknown or similar. I had to drive 4 hours to my L1 site, and counted it as 'pretty close'. But it shouldn't take the entire day to do the cert flight, and hopefully there will be a bunch of flights to watch, people to talk to, and stuff to learn.
I couldn't find the assembly directions online for the 29/180 reloads, but I'm terrible at searching... In any event, there's not a whole lot of difference between assembly of the 29/40-120 and of the 29/180. Liner, propellant grains, delay grain, nozzle, and forward, aft, and delay o-rings, plus a few other parts.
One thing I do that's slightly out of order: I assemble the parts into the forward closure, then put the propellant in the liner and slide it into the casing, etc. That's the way the old instructions said to do it. I've had a casing+liner+propellant roll off my table once, so I prefer to wait until the assembled forward closure and forward o-ring can be installed.
Best,
Terry
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