So....Are Hybrids Doomed?

[jderimig]

Incredibly Cool! What motor was that?

That was the Contrail J416 54mm.

 

[als57]

Not necessarily. Out of curiosity, I had a peek at some prices, comparing the cost of a hybrid load to an AP load of similar impulse class.

Going by a J reload... hybrid grains range from $27 to $37. Adding in 3 pounds of NO2, (A guess - someone with actual figures, please correct me...) at $3 per pound, gives $36 to $47.

AP reloads of the same class range from $33 to $50.

So cost savings isn't a very good justification for using hybrids...

Man I wish I could buy a J reload for $33. Our onsite vendors charge $55 for a J350 or J420. Loki is about the cheapest at $48.

Some folks like the added complexity. I draw the line at the floating injector style. Not interested in Hypertek at all. Might be interested in the Aerotech if it returns.

John's sparky Contrail hybrid flight is pretty neat.

Al

 

[ttabbal]

For the simplest hybrid flights, look into the pre-filled types like the old Aerotech or the recently certified Alpha. Single firing line like a standard APCP motor and uses standard launch equipment.

I personally like the floating injector style like Skyripper. I won't deal with Hypertek as they seem more complex than required. Of course, I have seen club members have good luck with them.

Contrail also has some nice looking motors. I haven't had the chance to see one fly in person, but the pics and reviews look good. I'm thinking my next purchase will be the Skyripper 54mm setup, then something I can fly L and M impulse in for an L3 flight. The Skyripper 98mm stuff that's in development looks cool, and Contrail has some stuff I'm interested in at those size levels as well.

 

[SpartaChris]

Pic of my hybrid..

PS. Its loud as hell.

OK, that looks pretty cool. Unfortunately no one flies those here in CA, probably because they aren't CSFM approved. Our stupid regulations, I know.

That still doesn't change the constant error rate I see with hybrids at our launches. While I know sometimes AP has problems with igniting on the first try, I see far more problems and complications with hybrids.

Makes me wonder about your tongue in cheek analogy that the top 10% of rocketeers in the IQ pool fly hybrids. Seems to me a smart guy would just keep it simple!

 

[n3tjm]

Do hybrids have to be CSFM approved?

 

[rsynoski]

Will admit that lack of BATF involvement was one of many factors in my decision to start flying hybrids, but for the past year or so that has not been much of a consideration. Now I fly hybrids because I think they are cool. In March I flew a Hybrid to Hybrid two-stage and in a week or so I will try Level 3 on a Contrail M.

I exclusively fly Contrails and have never found them hard to assemble or fly. I pretty much just load the rocket on the pad, connect the fill-line and ignitor, arm the electronics and go. The biggest factor is knowing the GSE or having someone who does. It is any experience thing, but complexity is not that much more then solids.

 

[SpartaChris]

Do hybrids have to be CSFM approved?

I'm not an expert, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all commercial rocket motors in CA need CSFM approval.

Maybe one of the hybrid makers can speak up on the subject.

 

[shreadvector]

I'm not an expert, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all commercial rocket motors in CA need CSFM approval.

Maybe one of the hybrid makers can speak up on the subject.

A quick check of the Aerotech regulatory documents web page does not yield anything, but I know I've seen a letter about this many years ago.

IIRC (and I may not...) since they are not mixed fuel and oxidizer, they are not a "fireqork" and therefore not subject to Classification by the CSFM. Similar to gasoline and air - cars and lawnmowers are not Fireworks.

I'm sure someone will post the facts and a link to the appropriate document. Is Rick D. ever on TRF? He might know.

 

[rdmmdr]

at dairy aire we had a hybrid dealer there i think he was one for 3 for sucessful launchs, that got a little expensive. plus all the added gse and the hassle of keeping the bottles cool in a hundred plus heat. maybe i am lucky but with 150 plus launches using aerotek motors and no failures. i have no intension to swap.

rick
tra 11994

 

[Sailorbill]

If all goes well a friend of mine and I plan on launching quite a few this weekend at Nebraska Heat and more at A.I.R.Fest later in the year.
He is trying to burn up as many Aerotech reloads as he can before they get de-certified.
He has a new 64 lb bottle and we repaired two pin valves that were leaking.
We are trying to get a Hybrid three motor cluster ready for this weekend.:y:

 

[jason-and-his-toys]

Pic of my hybrid..

PS. Its loud as hell.

It seems most Contrails are loud as hell!

Here is another Contrail. It's a K525 White smoke. Nice Mach diamonds! :eyepop:

One of 6 great hybrid flights I had that weekend! 5 contrail and one hypertek.

Great picture thanks to David Buhler.

Jason