Smaller quanties of aeropoxy?

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Rory Gin

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The smallest aeropoxy (ES 6209) amount I can find is 1 quart? Does anybody sell smaller quantities? (especially in Canada).
 

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Go to giant leap rocketry, they sell the pint size version.

 

Rory Gin

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Go to giant leap rocketry, they sell the pint size version.

Unfortunately they don't ship to Canada. It might be Hazmat? Thanks anyway.
 

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Unfortunately they don't ship to Canada. It might be Hazmat? Thanks anyway.
Where does it say this? I do not see where it says they do not ship to Canada. Is it at check out or something?
 

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ES6209 structural epoxy otherwise I would get some 30-min BSI.
A friend of mine has structural epoxy that has carbon graphene in it. He said he can ship to Canada. He is going to confirm first the shelf life on it. Let me know if you’d be interested in getting some.
 

mtnmanak

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I wonder if Giant Leap is repackaging it into pint containers? I have been using Aeropoxy 6209 for years and the smallest package of it I have ever seen is the quart version. The manufacturers page on the product only lists 3 sizes: Quart, Gallon and Pail.

Having said that, if you plan to build a lot of large rockets, you burn through the quart size fairly quickly and it has a wonderful shelf life.
 

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Rory Gin

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I wonder if Giant Leap is repackaging it into pint containers? I have been using Aeropoxy 6209 for years and the smallest package of it I have ever seen is the quart version. The manufacturers page on the product only lists 3 sizes: Quart, Gallon and Pail.

Having said that, if you plan to build a lot of large rockets, you burn through the quart size fairly quickly and it has a wonderful shelf life.
Define a LOT. I'm just getting started in HP so I have no idea how much I will be doing in the future.
 

mtnmanak

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Define a LOT. I'm just getting started in HP so I have no idea how much I will be doing in the future.
Well, I have built about 10 HPRs (ranging in size from 29mm minimum diameter to 6" diameter) in the past year and I bought a new quart set of Aeropoxy last summer. I have gone through about 75% of that quart set. And, to be fair, I did not use Aeropoxy 6209 exclusively - I also use West Systems 105/206or205 with fillers for a lot of applications. So, if I was only using Aeropoxy, I probably would have come close to finishing that quart set with those 10 rockets.

I will admit though, that a couple tube fin rockets I built recently took a lot more epoxy than usual.

For West Systems, I use their pumps - they are great:

PXL_20210127_113618057.jpg


For Aeropoxy, I put them in squeeze bottles - also works great:

PXL_20210129_022136060.jpg


PXL_20201216_180037511.jpg
 

Rory Gin

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Do you usually measure by weight? I have a gram counter so that's easy for me. Yes, I thought about using squeeze bottles to keep the usable amounts to a manageable amount. Wouldn't fillers lower the strength a little?
 

mtnmanak

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For Aeropoxy, I measure by weight. The scale I have in one of the pictures above is accurate to the milligram. Also useful for measuring out black powder charges.

Fillers are a whole other subject. In theory, all fillers do decrease strength, although West Systems is a bit unclear on the subject of Colloidal Silica. In some places, they seem to indicate that Colloidal Silica actually increases the strength of the epoxy and in some places they say fillers decrease the strength.

Either way, if your application requires the absolute maximum strength of the epoxy, then you should not mix it with anything. Aeropoxy 6209 is already pretty viscous, so it is nice to use if you need a thicker epoxy with no fillers.

On the other hand, most of the applications in an HPR are fine with fillers and those fillers can make your life a whole lot easier when you need epoxy to stay exactly where you put it. In hundreds of HPR launches and more ballistic crashes than I would care to admit, the rocket material (cardboard, fiberglass, etc) gave away before the Aeropoxy did, including when I used fillers. If you have prepped the surface properly (cleaned off any mold release, sanded and cleaned again with alcohol/acetone), Aeropoxy or West Systems, with or without fillers, will not be the weakest part of your rocket.
 

mtnmanak

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Thanks mtnmanak. All very good information. I might have to bit the bullet and purchase a full quart and stay in this sport until I finish the quantity. :D
I can guarantee that the quart of Aeropoxy will not only be useful and used, it will almost definitely end up being the cheapest thing you buy per rocket in HPR ;)

I should have taken up gambling, it would have been cheaper...
 

John Kemker

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For Aeropoxy, I measure by weight. The scale I have in one of the pictures above is accurate to the milligram. Also useful for measuring out black powder charges.

Fillers are a whole other subject. In theory, all fillers do decrease strength, although West Systems is a bit unclear on the subject of Colloidal Silica. In some places, they seem to indicate that Colloidal Silica actually increases the strength of the epoxy and in some places they say fillers decrease the strength.

Either way, if your application requires the absolute maximum strength of the epoxy, then you should not mix it with anything. Aeropoxy 6209 is already pretty viscous, so it is nice to use if you need a thicker epoxy with no fillers.

On the other hand, most of the applications in an HPR are fine with fillers and those fillers can make your life a whole lot easier when you need epoxy to stay exactly where you put it. In hundreds of HPR launches and more ballistic crashes than I would care to admit, the rocket material (cardboard, fiberglass, etc) gave away before the Aeropoxy did, including when I used fillers. If you have prepped the surface properly (cleaned off any mold release, sanded and cleaned again with alcohol/acetone), Aeropoxy or West Systems, with or without fillers, will not be the weakest part of your rocket.
Scott Dixon of Vulcan used to sell a filled epoxy that was stronger than the unfilled. he filled it with carbon whiskers. Really crazy resin:hardener ratio, but it was what he used to bind the nozzles into his motors. Made a hell of a fillet!
 

John Kemker

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Vulcan, Alberta?
 

Rory Gin

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I can guarantee that the quart of Aeropoxy will not only be useful and used, it will almost definitely end up being the cheapest thing you buy per rocket in HPR ;)

I should have taken up gambling, it would have been cheaper...
Well we shall see. $81 CDN for the quart and $45 for the shipping & taxes (I forgot it was hazmat which explains why that was so darn expensive). I'm going to transfer to some 8 oz (225 g) squeeze bottles. By contrast - my 42 LP/MP rockets have consumed a grand total of 14 oz of all types of adhesive so unless I build a lot of HP, its going to hang around for a while! On the other hand, the amount of money I put into this hobby in the last year is also extraordinary.

Courier gingerly handed over the package as if it was explosive "it's dangerous goods". Well sorta - if the containers were broken and the two mixed accidentally.

Last night, I mixed up 20 g (total) of 15-min BSI. I was in the middle of applying it when the exothermic reaction kicked in and it glazed over within seconds. It caught me off guard as I didn't think that would happen with that small of a quantity. It was very warm but not hot.
 
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