SM-2ER / RIM-67A Plan Source

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pcotcher

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Guys -

Does anyone know a dimensioned set of plans for the SM-2ER/RIM-67A. I have the semi-worthless TLP plan pack - neat approach for the total scratchbuild, but nothing there for the dimensions of the real thing.

I could even handle the plans separately for the Terrier Booster and the SM-2 (which, so far as I know is externally very similar to the AGM-78 Standard ARM) - but in the end, I'm looking for the ship-board AAM, so specifics for that would be best.

I have the Alway drawings for the Terrier booster on the Black Brandt X - so that should be a similar starting point (I think the interstage is quite a bit different).

Would love to have a set of Always drawings for the whole setup! Wish Peter had done/would do more military stuff!

Thanks!

Paul
 
You are THE MAN!!!!!!

I was just sitting here at the desk trying to figure up some dimensions from the TLP plan pack and NOTHING agreed with the dimensions in the Alway book for the Terrier booster (the only basis I had for it) - here are some rough numbers based on the TLP plans:

TLP Prototype Predicted Re-scale
Sustainer Airframe Length 28.1 161.0702913 0.174457995
Sustainer Airframe Diameter 2.6 14.90330097
Sustainer Cone Length 6.5 37.25825243
Booster Airframe Length 25.75 147.6 147.6
Booster Airframe Diameter 3.25 18.01 18.62912621
Booster Fin Root Chord 4.5 23.306 25.79417476
Booster Fin Semi-Span 4.375 21.56 25.0776699
Booster Fin Tip Chord 1.125 10.12 6.448543689
Booster Interstage Shroud Diameter 12.5 0

The first number is the dimension used in the TLP plan pack, the second is the prototype - from the Alway drawing of the Terrier booster (shown with the BBX), the third number is a predicted value based on the ratio of the booster length in the TLP plan pack and the booster length in the Alway drawing. Just shows how OFF the TLP numbers are!

Which BTW - the Alway dimension of 147.6 for the booster airframe length agrees perfectly with the drawing you provided.

Hmmmm, gonna be a late night crunching numbers!

Many Thanks!

Paul
 
First cut says the missile will be on a 6" tube, and about 70" tall, adding the booster (7.5"), heading for 12 feet long!

A couple of dimensions aren't entirely clear from that drawing, but it's a heck of a good starting point!

:clap:
 
Yeah, the stations seem a little funky at a few points. I have parts and a file made up for a 4" sustainer over a 5.5 booster. Not a perfect scale but it won't be a museum piece. Thinking I want to taper and bevels at least the booster fins but that may be a challenge. Thinking a kind of vertical mill made using a router.

Good luck with yours. I have a few hires photos if you need some detail let me know.
 
Paul,

Is the decimal place for the 3rd number for the Sustainer Airframe length in the wrong place, i.e., should be 174?

TLP Prototype Predicted Re-scale
Sustainer Airframe Length 28.1 161.0702913 0.174457995

Since you have 3 numbers for the booster airframe length, I assume that TLP dimension is close. Is this right?

Booster Airframe Length 25.75 147.6 147.6

The first number is the dimension used in the TLP plan pack, the second is the prototype - from the Alway drawing of the Terrier booster (shown with the BBX), the third number is a predicted value based on the ratio of the booster length in the TLP plan pack and the booster length in the Alway drawing. Just shows how OFF the TLP numbers are!

Which BTW - the Alway dimension of 147.6 for the booster airframe length agrees perfectly with the drawing you provided.

Paul[/QUOTE]

If you look at the long fins on the sustainer, you will see that they are quite thick. In essence the TLP fins are just profiles (sports scale). I have looked at these fins on a standard missile in a rocket garden near us and wondered why they are so thick. I figure that they might be used as support in storage. Also, the rear fins look like they are on hinges and actually fold back.

Bob
 
closeup.jpg

The fins appear to fold sideways. Sorry this pic is pretty small.

If anyone has close ups of the long sustainer fins (strake/wing) I would love to see them in better detail.
 
Last edited:
Paul,

Is the decimal place for the 3rd number for the Sustainer Airframe length in the wrong place, i.e., should be 174?

Paul said:
TLP Prototype Predicted Re-scale
Sustainer Airframe Length 28.1 161.0702913 0.174457995

Since you have 3 numbers for the booster airframe length, I assume that TLP dimension is close. Is this right?

Booster Airframe Length 25.75 147.6 147.6

The first number is the dimension used in the TLP plan pack, the second is the prototype - from the Alway drawing of the Terrier booster (shown with the BBX), the third number is a predicted value based on the ratio of the booster length in the TLP plan pack and the booster length in the Alway drawing. Just shows how OFF the TLP numbers are!

Which BTW - the Alway dimension of 147.6 for the booster airframe length agrees perfectly with the drawing you provided.

Paul

If you look at the long fins on the sustainer, you will see that they are quite thick. In essence the TLP fins are just profiles (sports scale). I have looked at these fins on a standard missile in a rocket garden near us and wondered why they are so thick. I figure that they might be used as support in storage. Also, the rear fins look like they are on hinges and actually fold back.

Bob

Actually that number is correct - that's the scaling factor that I used as a multiplier for other dimensions.

I derived the .174 number by dividing 25.75 by 147.6 - that gives you a ratio between the dimensions on the TLP plan pack and the real thing.

From there, you can divide the other dimensions on the TLP plan pack by .174 to get a predicted value for the prototype - with this I could compare other known values to what was in the TLP plan pack (as shown in my post above).

VERY few of the dimensions are even remotely close. I am working on a dimension set now, and can show it scaled to almost any body tube size if you like.

As for the fins, there are three layers to the forward vanes on the missile itself, the center layer is fairly thin and protrudes beyond the outside supporting layers.

The rear fins do indeed fold - there's a box shaped hing area that has the same dimensions as the forward vanes, this allows the missile to fit in box launcher with the most compact dimensions. While older ships fed the missile up through the deck and onto a armed launcher (such as the Mk.26), most of the newer vessles - particularly anything with a VLS type launching system (Spruance, Ticos, Arleigh Burkes) - take advantage of the fin fold in the launcher itself.

HTH - will post more after I've had a chance to crunch all the numbers. I tend to scale projects based on a given tube size to produce the right length - so my models will never be a perfect 1/5 scale or anything like that, they'll be scaled to the tube diameter - and then all other dimensions matched to that one.

In the case of a missile like this one with two different tube sizes, I'll pick one tube and then will be forced to get the other as close as possible (my 7.5" booster should really be 8" - but there aren't any tubes that are conveniently available in an 8" size - that I've found).

Sorry for the confusion on the numbers, unfortunately Excel doesn't translate well to straight copies into the forum.

More later!

Paul
 
So here are the dimensions based on the prototype:

All measurements are in inches:

Dimension Prototype
Booster Diameter 18
Booster Airframe Length 147.6
Booster Fin Distance from Airframe Base 4.73
Booster Fin Root Chord 24.5
Booster Fin Tip Chord 6.9
Booster Fin Semi-Span 22.125
Booster Fin Forward Sweep Length 8.55
Booster Fin Aft Sweep Length 9.05
Booster Reducer Length
Booster Reducer Top Diameter 13.5
Sustainer Diameter 13.5
Sustainer Airframe Length 129.84
Sustainer Main Fin Root Chord 14.13
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Tip Semi-Span 14.49
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Tip Semi-Span 10.615
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Sweep Length 5.56
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Sweep Length 3.31
Sustainer Strake Main Semi-Span 5.27
Sustainer Strake Forward Semi-Span 1.15
Sustainer Strake Root Length 84.215
Sustainer Strake Tip Length 48.31
Sustainer Nose Cone Length 29.08

There are a couple on there that I'm still working on, as there aren't specific dimensions on the plans - I've already found a couple of errors in the numbers as well
(transposed digits).

Let me know if you have any questions...

Paul
 
And here's a scaling chart based on various tube diameters - the numbers are going to end up pretty much the same for the larger tubes, as the variance in size from one 3.9" tube to another is pretty small, but the differences are included for completness.

I built two conversions, the first is based on scaling the rocket off of the booster tube, the second is based on scaling off of the sustainer tube. So you'll see three numbers. The first is the referenced tube OD, the second is the scaling factor if you base the rocket on a booster tube using the size referenced for that row, the third number is if you base the rocket on a sustainer tube using the tube size referenced for that row:

Booster Scaling Sustainer Scaling
18.000 13.500
ST2 0.260 0.014 0.019
BT3 0.375 0.021 0.028
BT4 0.448 0.025 0.033
BT5 0.543 0.030 0.040
ST5 0.543 0.030 0.040
ST6 0.650 0.036 0.048
BT19 0.700 0.039 0.052
BT20 0.736 0.041 0.055
ST7 0.759 0.042 0.056
BT30 0.767 0.043 0.057
BT40 0.825 0.046 0.061
ST8 0.908 0.050 0.067
ST8F 0.908 0.050 0.067
ST085 0.945 0.053 0.070
BT50 0.976 0.054 0.072
ST9 0.998 0.055 0.074
BT51 1.011 0.056 0.075
BT52 1.014 0.056 0.075
ST10 1.040 0.058 0.077
ST11 1.170 0.065 0.087
ST115 1.220 0.068 0.090
PMLPT1.1 1.269 0.071 0.094
BT1.15 1.274 0.071 0.094
BT55 1.325 0.074 0.098
ST13 1.340 0.074 0.099
ST125 1.340 0.074 0.099
BT58 1.540 0.086 0.114
ST150 1.590 0.088 0.118
LOCBT152/38mm 1.635 0.091 0.121
BT60 1.637 0.091 0.121
ST16 1.640 0.091 0.121
BT1.52 1.644 0.091 0.122
PMLPT1.5 1.649 0.092 0.122
ST18 1.840 0.102 0.136
ST175 1.840 0.102 0.136
ST20 2.040 0.113 0.151
ST200 2.080 0.116 0.154
GLR 2.15 2.152 0.120 0.159
BT70 2.217 0.123 0.164
BT70H 2.247 0.125 0.166
LOCBT214/54mm 2.260 0.126 0.167
BT2.15 2.274 0.126 0.168
PMLPT2.1 2.276 0.126 0.169
ST225 2.340 0.130 0.173
GLR 2.56 2.560 0.142 0.190
BT80 2.600 0.144 0.193
LOCBT256 2.630 0.146 0.195
BT80H 2.640 0.147 0.196
PMLPT2.5 2.684 0.149 0.199
ST27 2.700 0.150 0.200
ST275 2.840 0.158 0.210
GLR 3 3.002 0.167 0.222
LOCBT300/75mm 3.100 0.172 0.230
BT3.0 3.124 0.174 0.231
PMLPT3.0 3.126 0.174 0.232
ST36 3.690 0.205 0.273
BT99 3.700 0.206 0.274
BT100 3.744 0.208 0.277
GLR 3.9 3.900 0.217 0.289
BT101 3.938 0.219 0.292
LOCBT390/98mm 4.000 0.222 0.296
PMLPT3.9 4.024 0.224 0.298
BT4.0 4.024 0.224 0.298
LOCBT538 5.540 0.308 0.410
BT5.5 5.654 0.314 0.419
GLR 6 6.007 0.334 0.445
BT6.0 6.148 0.342 0.455
PMLPT6.0 6.155 0.342 0.456
GLR 7.5 7.512 0.417 0.556
BT7.5 7.660 0.426 0.567
PMLPT7.5 7.672 0.426 0.568
LOCBT751 7.675 0.426 0.569

I'll show the numbers against the prototype sizing in a minute...
 
So using the scale factors that we just displayed on the tube reference in the previous posting, here's a couple of example scalings.

The first is based on a 6" Sustainer:

Booster Diameter 8.19
Booster Airframe Length 67.16
Booster Fin Distance from Airframe Base 2.15
Booster Fin Root Chord 11.15
Booster Fin Tip Chord 3.14
Booster Fin Semi-Span 10.07
Booster Fin Forward Sweep Length 3.89
Booster Fin Aft Sweep Length 4.12
Booster Reducer Length 0.00
Booster Reducer Top Diameter 6.14
Sustainer Diameter 6.14
Sustainer Airframe Length 59.08
Sustainer Main Fin Root Chord 6.43
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Tip Semi-Span 6.59
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Tip Semi-Span 4.83
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Sweep Length 2.53
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Sweep Length 1.51
Sustainer Strake Main Semi-Span 2.40
Sustainer Strake Forward Semi-Span 0.52
Sustainer Strake Root Length 38.32
Sustainer Strake Tip Length 21.98
Sustainer Nose Cone Length 13.23
Overall Length 142.82

The second is based on a BT80 (2.6") Sustainer - which is what the TLP plan pack is based on:

Booster Diameter 3.47
Booster Airframe Length 28.49
Booster Fin Distance from Airframe Base 0.91
Booster Fin Root Chord 4.73
Booster Fin Tip Chord 1.33
Booster Fin Semi-Span 4.27
Booster Fin Forward Sweep Length 1.65
Booster Fin Aft Sweep Length 1.75
Booster Reducer Length 0.00
Booster Reducer Top Diameter 2.61
Sustainer Diameter 2.61
Sustainer Airframe Length 25.06
Sustainer Main Fin Root Chord 2.73
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Tip Semi-Span 2.80
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Tip Semi-Span 2.05
Sustainer Main Fin Forward Sweep Length 1.07
Sustainer Main Fin Rear Sweep Length 0.64
Sustainer Strake Main Semi-Span 1.02
Sustainer Strake Forward Semi-Span 0.22
Sustainer Strake Root Length 16.25
Sustainer Strake Tip Length 9.32
Sustainer Nose Cone Length 5.61
Overall Length 60.58

Compare those dimensions to the TLP dimensions, and you'll quickly see how off those plans are.

Hope this gives a few ideas on the project to everyone. If anyone wants another set of numbers, I can create them in a few seconds for pretty much any other tube size.

Paul
 
That's some excellent work, Paul! Those dimensions should be all a good modeler needs to produce a first-rate scale model. There have been some very good pics of the rocket in scale under Standard AGM if you haven't seen them yet. What I'm wondering about is the tail section. In some pics it appears to have a slight tailcone in others it doesn't. What do you think? Ted
 
That's some excellent work, Paul! Those dimensions should be all a good modeler needs to produce a first-rate scale model. There have been some very good pics of the rocket in scale under Standard AGM if you haven't seen them yet. What I'm wondering about is the tail section. In some pics it appears to have a slight tailcone in others it doesn't. What do you think? Ted
Ted -

Those photos are of the air-launched AGM-78 Standard ARM - at least three of them are from the USAFM in Dayton, OH (have several close-up photos myself). The SM-2 is a different missile - albeit very similar. At least according to the plans that were posted above, there is no boat tail on the shipboard AAM. The dimensions for the maiting area of the booster is the same as the booster airframe diameter (13.50") - so that tells me that (provided that the plans are correct), the boat tail that you pointed out is a feature of the air-launched ARM vs. the ship-launched AAM.

Just my take,

Paul
 
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