Should We "Register" Ourselves Now?

[shreadvector]

US dollar coins have been the same size since 1979 and the Loonie (Canadian dollar coin) is virtually identical except that it has 11 sides.

The US dollar coin is 43% larger than the US quarter dollar coin.

The newest US dollar coins are Golden color so they do not look anything like a Quarter.

And now, all US dollar coins have BIG HUGE "$1" stamped on them.

https://www.smalldollars.com/

you are welcome to use the same size


Yes true. The coin will not be in circulation unless you stop printing the paper bill. Same happened for the $2 bill when it was replaced with a coin.

 

[Uncrichie]

Hey Fred, I think we can all stand the pain of a penny but a dollar size coin is really gonna hurt!!!

 

[shreadvector]

Hey Fred, I think we can all stand the pain of a penny but a dollar size coin is really gonna hurt!!!

You will appreciate the "smooth edge" of the US coin as opposed to the 11 sides of the Loonie. The edge incused lettering will not even bother you. Of course, it may not be as incuse afterward.....

 

[falingtrea]

Nobody has to have a driver's license to buy a car or drive it on private property. Nobody must have a license to buy an ultralight airplane. You don't need a license to buy a general aviation airplane. You don't need a federal license to buy a GUN or AMMUNITION... You don't need a license to buy rat poison. You don't need a license nor do you need to prove you own an antique firearm to buy black powder. Smokeless nitrocellulose gunpowder can be had in 8 lb kegs with no license or regulations and it burns a lot like APCP when out in the open.

Hate to be nitpicky but you do need some form of id to buy a gun or ammo. And a background check.

But I prefer the self regulation requirements to the government ones anyday.

And as for the 911 assertions, the leup requirements were put in place in the mid '90s. I know that for a fact cause that's when I got out of the reload sales business since I could not get a magazine OKed for my home.

 

[RangerStl]

Hate to be nitpicky but you do need some form of id to buy a gun or ammo. And a background check.

Sir;

*No* you don't. Only if you buy from a federal license holder and fill out a yellow form 4473.

 

[Der Red Max]

You will appreciate the "smooth edge" of the US coin.....

I may, the ladies at the "club" I frequent would not.

 

[sandmantoy]

Isn't the Susan B Anthony dollar the size of a Quarter. In my state you are required to have a safety class card to buy a hunting license or to belong to a gun club if you are seen in public with a firearm or they will confiscate you and the firearm. You have to have a blue safety card to buy a pistol and most people in my state don't even know that one. They also do a background check on you. It is almost easier to get a seat on the space shuttle as get a permit to carry one. I am sure the ATF will wait until someone gets hurt or is cought breaking the law and jump on rocketry again. As rocketry is only a hobby for the majority I think we govern ourselves enough as is. Most criminal minds do not support rocket science, Evil minds are usually supported by governments and have people to make there cause seem justified lol. Then they don't bother with the little stuff we use.

Since you can build a rocket motor yourself and not have to buy one the point of more regulation seems kind of moot. I do like the idea of the secret hand shake though LOL! I like the fact that we all kind of look out for each other at a launch as others have seen things that I have over looked more than once. Asking questions about how or why you are doing something they never saw before is no better received than amongst rocket folks than in any other sport I have seen. I have my fingers crossed that we all have a great flying season this year and celebrate this win out in the fields where the fire and smoke reach towards the sky.

 

[MysticalRockets]

Isn't the Susan B Anthony dollar the size of a Quarter.

Slightly larger and slightly thicker. But not enough to really be able to tell the difference. Soda machines read them as quarters. I don't think they're minted anymore. I much prefer the gold ones. And don't ask me to spell the name. I couldn't.

 

[troj]

Slightly larger and slightly thicker. But not enough to really be able to tell the difference. Soda machines read them as quarters. I don't think they're minted anymore. I much prefer the gold ones. And don't ask me to spell the name. I couldn't.

Sacajawea, and my wife and I really like 'em.

There are also Presidential golden dollars, too.

-Kevin

 

[MarkM]

Slightly larger and slightly thicker. But not enough to really be able to tell the difference. Soda machines read them as quarters. I don't think they're minted anymore. I much prefer the gold ones. And don't ask me to spell the name. I couldn't.

The S.B. Anthony dollar was only minted a few years. The biggest problem and ultimately the cause of its downfall as a useful coin was with the blind. The blind who rely on coin size and "feel" to be sure they are not only paying the correct amount but receiving it in change, couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the SB dollar; they were just too similar. The teeny size difference was nearly impossible to feel. Even looking at the two it's difficult to tell unless you hold one up against the other. The government clearly didn't think ahead when they designed and minted those coins...not that I'm surprised.

 

[Mike Di Venti]

Ok, this one is going to set me off. Fair warning now. Close the window if you don't want me to go ballistic. Mods, if you want to give me a warning or infraction, be my guest. I won't argue it.
















First off, your facts are wrong. The case started BEFORE 9/11. A year before.

Second, DON'T YOU OR ANYONE ELSE DARE BLAME 9/11 FOR THIS!!! YOU WANT TO TALK 9/11, WELL, THIS IS THE WRONG PLACE! WE HAVE PEOPLE HERE, ME INCLUDED, WHO LOST FAMILY AND FRIENDS ON 9/11. 9/11 WAS THE ACT OF DELUDED FOOLS ACTING ON BEHALF OF A MADMAN! IT IS AN INSULT TO THEIR MEMORIES TO LUMP THIS ISSUE IN WITH THAT. SO TAKE YOUR 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY AND TAKE A HIKE!

You took the words right outta my mouth!
DITTO Mystical Rockets

 

[madsen]

And as for the 911 assertions, the leup requirements were put in place in the mid '90s. I know that for a fact cause that's when I got out of the reload sales business since I could not get a magazine OKed for my home.

I always wondered why you stopped selling motors. After all these years--it is nice to know.

 

[shreadvector]

100% opposite of the facts.

The blind were absolutely in favor of the SBA dollar coin and it included features to distinguish it from a quarter by feel:

1) 43% larger than a quarter.

2) Same reverse design as the Eisenhower dollar BUT they increased the depth so that the eagle landing on the moon had it's head and wing sticking up quite a bit off the surface of the coin. This couold be felt as a large ridge across the coin and it feels NOTHING like a quarter.

3) Only those who can see and never got used to the difference in feel are the people who kept saying how it LOOKED like a quarter and how they keep getting them confused. The blind never had this problem.

4) Every electronic vending machine made since 1979 can accept dollar coins (SBA, Sacagawea, Presidential) as they are all the same size and weight and have the same electronic signature. The only reason a modern machine will not accept them is if the slot opening i the front panel is too small or if the coin mech has been set or programmed to not accept dollar coins (a single micro switch - there are several switches for different function controls). PDFs of the coin mechs are online. Mars Electronics ("MEI").

5) Anyone who cannot tell a Sacagawea, Presidential or Native American Golden Dollar coin from a US Qaurter dollar coin, should not be allowed to handle coins and currency. Especially since the $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100 notes are EXACTLY the same size.

The S.B. Anthony dollar was only minted a few years. The biggest problem and ultimately the cause of its downfall as a useful coin was with the blind. The blind who rely on coin size and "feel" to be sure they are not only paying the correct amount but receiving it in change, couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the SB dollar; they were just too similar. The teeny size difference was nearly impossible to feel. Even looking at the two it's difficult to tell unless you hold one up against the other. The government clearly didn't think ahead when they designed and minted those coins...not that I'm surprised.

 

[dr wogz]

Canada has the Loonie & Twoonie.
Britain has the Pound coin..
I'm sure other countires have "larger" currency as coins.

Coins:
1) They do last longer
2) They do act as "change" and therefore are spent more readily spent (something we all need!!)
3) More & more items [in vending machines] cost a buck or two.. And lump in parking meters and other 'automated ticket machines'.. (sure beats a roll of quaters, dimes, etc..)
4) Saving just our Loonies & Twoonies (in a special piggy bank) has sent us to Florida & "that island south of Miami" a few times..

 

[dr wogz]

Canada has the Loonie & Twoonie.
Britain has the Pound coin..
I'm sure other countires have "larger" currency as coins.

Coins:
1) They do last longer
2) They do act as "change" and therefore are spent more readily spent (something we all need!!)
3) More & more items [in vending machines] cost a buck or two.. And lump in parking meters and other 'automated ticket machines'.. (sure beats a roll of quaters, dimes, etc..)
4) Saving just our Loonies & Twoonies (in a special piggy bank) has sent us to Florida & "that island south of Miami" a few times..

 

[shreadvector]

Britain also has the two pound coin. Europe has the one and two euro coins.

I can see Air Force One out the window here. Off topic, but why stop now? I had to sit in my car for a half hour yesterday as we could not leave our parking lot while the President was arriving. Cool helicopters. They've been flying around here since at least Monday (presumably they were doing practice to get familiar with the area.) I would estimate that AF1 is exactly halfway between me and the Wal-Mart.

Canada has the Loonie & Twoonie.
Britain has the Pound coin..
I'm sure other countires have "larger" currency as coins.

Coins:
1) They do last longer
2) They do act as "change" and therefore are spent more readily spent (something we all need!!)
3) More & more items [in vending machines] cost a buck or two.. And lump in parking meters and other 'automated ticket machines'.. (sure beats a roll of quaters, dimes, etc..)
4) Saving just our Loonies & Twoonies (in a special piggy bank) has sent us to Florida & "that island south of Miami" a few times..

 

[deandome]

I believe, seriously, that the vending machine lobbied/lobbies heavily to prevent the elimination of dollar bills. They'd be on the hook for $$ to adjust/alter/create new coin systems...not to mention the fact all the bill-takers they've added over the last decade would become obsolete.

They might not be the NRA, but in the absence of any "pro-eliminate dollar bills" lobbying efforts, their efforts seem to be working.

 

[falingtrea]

Sir;

*No* you don't. Only if you buy from a federal license holder and fill out a yellow form 4473.

But reguardless of that fact, if you fall under certain criteria you cannot legally buy or own a firearm, unless you petition the BATFE!! (felony, Domestic Assault misdemeanor, etc.) And if the gov could prove you sold one to a restricted buyer knowingly you might still be in trouble.

 

[shreadvector]

Again, we have another 100% false message. This is just like many of the rocketry related posts. people make up 'facts' and post them as if they were real.

I know this is 100% false because I was a citizen out in the real world who worked with and talked to and exchanged e-mails with Jim Benfield of the Coin Coalition in Washington DC.

The National Automated Merchandizing Association was just one of MANY groups who provided the meager funding to the Coin Coalition to promote legislation to get the dollar coin moving. Over many years, they slowly promoted the idea of a gold colored dollar coin to supersede (not "replace") the silver colored SBA. NAMA provided lots of information and congressional tesimony on how much it costs to install bill validators and to maintain them in vending machines. That is one huge reason you have seen price increases in stuff sold by vending machines - the bill validators are a major expense and cost a lot to maintain.

There is no cost to eliminate the dollar bill from production:

1) They remain legal tender, so machines that accept them already can continue to do so.

2) All bill validators are already programmed to accept $1, $2, $5 and sometime larger denominations. The $2 and $5 function can be turned off. The standard sticker set provided with the validators incluses "Accpets $1 Bills", "accepts $1, $2, $5 bills" and "Accepts $1 and $5 bills". The machine operator decides what they wnat, flips appropriate switches and slaps on the sticker that matches. Reprogramming is a 2 minute job.

3) Handling bills is very expensive relative to handling coins. Coins can be poured into a sorter/counter and processed FAST. Bills must be sorted and flattened and take a long time. And the scanner/counters for currency jam often as well, so even once they are flattened it is a pain.

4) There is no "eliminate dollar bills" lobby now because the Coin Colaition is gone - Jim passed away and he did it for virtually no money so there is no organized group now. There is still some effort regarding coins, but they are mostly from Rep. Castle of DE who like to sponsor legislation for commemoratives (wait till you see the next 11 years of quarters.....). There IS a lobby to keep the dollar bill and it is run by the Crane Paper Co and the union that works at the BEP where they print the billions of short lived rag dollars.

etc.

I believe, seriously, that the vending machine lobbied/lobbies heavily to prevent the elimination of dollar bills. They'd be on the hook for $$ to adjust/alter/create new coin systems...not to mention the fact all the bill-takers they've added over the last decade would become obsolete.

They might not be the NRA, but in the absence of any "pro-eliminate dollar bills" lobbying efforts, their efforts seem to be working.

 

[RangerStl]

But reguardless of that fact, if you fall under certain criteria you cannot legally buy or own a firearm, unless you petition the BATFE!! (felony, Domestic Assault misdemeanor, etc.) And if the gov could prove you sold one to a restricted buyer knowingly you might still be in trouble.

If you can't legally buy a firearm, then you also can't legally VOTE either. You never said anything about being of prohibited status, you just said "you need ID and a background check to buy a gun and ammunition" which you certainly do NOT unless you buy from a federally licensed dealer. You can buy a gun from an individual resident of your state any time with no federal restrictions other than not being of prohibited status (under age, felon, drugs, domestic violence, dishonorable discharge from Military).

Your assertion is off your original point. You don't "need an ID and background check", you "need to not be of prohibited status" which is sometimes *verified by* ID and background check to comply with the law. These are different.

What constitutes "Prohibited Status" for APCP? Is there one? If there is no "Prohibited Status" for using APCP, then a background check, ID check, fingerprinting, INS interview, psych profile, etc. are all unnecessary, ineffective, intrusive, and the very reason why everyone got stirred up when this thread started.

 

[RangerStl]

Again, we have another 100% false message. This is just like many of the rocketry related posts. people make up 'facts' and post them as if they were real.

I know this is 100% false because I was a citizen out in the real world who worked with and talked to and exchanged e-mails with Jim Benfield of the Coin Coalition in Washington DC.

Fred, the amount of information you have at your fingertips frightens me a bit...

 

[shreadvector]

Fred, the amount of information you have at your fingertips frightens me a bit...

You know my standard advice about 'calling' someone on the telephone? I got SBA dollar sin Boston/Cambridge MA in 1979 and into early 1980. All vending machines and pinball/video games accepted them. The Throgs Neck Bridge toll in NY was $1 and the exact change baskets accepted them. i got a roll or two whenever I went to my "bank" (Coolidge Savings in those days) but eventually they said they could not get any more. They insisted they were not available. This turns out to be a lie.

I move to Los Angeles in mid 1980 and zero machines accept the SBA dollar coin. I still ask for them at Bank of America - the branch near where I work. I get a roll or 4 every week until they give me the same story after a few months. I semi-gave up until I read an article in the Los Angeles Times that quoted Jim Benfield and related similar stories of frustration. The bottom line was that even if you wanted them, the banks would lie to you to attempt to train you to stop asking for them. Anyway, I called the Times, asked for the reporter who's name was in the byline and i asked him for Jim's contact info. I got his phone number and called him. We exchanged info and I wrote some letters to Congressman and Senators when needed. I got real responses from some, not just form letters. One congressman had the GAO do a study of the savings potential and it was over $500,000,000.00 per year back 15 or so years ago.

Anyway, if you want to talk to someone about something you read or something you have questions about, feel free to call them.

 

[MarkM]

What constitutes "Prohibited Status" for APCP? Is there one?

There is no prohibited use status for APCP on "small motors" since anyone can purchase D,E,F, G (18 yr age requirement for G) APCP motors. However, there is prohibited status for obtaining LEUPs. So, those filing for LEUPs were subjected to fingerprinting and background checks to be sure they were not a "Prohibited Person."

If there is no "Prohibited Status" for using APCP, then a background check, ID check, fingerprinting, INS interview, psych profile, etc. are all unnecessary, ineffective, intrusive, and the very reason why everyone got stirred up when this thread started.

Exactly! With APCP now being declassified as a low explosive and no more storage requrements for HP motors, a HP motor is the same as a D-G APCP motor, now. As long as you're 18 and of the proper cert level anyone will now be able to purchase and use these motors without any hoops to jump through.

 

[luke strawwalker]

Well, there's precautions that make sense and precautions that don't make sense. I don't think that submitting a valid photo ID is a bad thing. Logs and recordkeeping aren't bad ideas either. Showing we're trying to be as responsible as possible, and able to respond to law enforcement queries with more than a shrug and "I dunno" goes a long way... appearances are important.

Thing is, a license, in and of itself, is meaningless. How many drunk drivers kill how many people?? I bet 99% of them have a license, or had one at one time if it was suspended or revoked. (I had an uncle who grew up in rural East Texas, dirt poor hillbillies, who drove stuff in the Army in WWII and came home and bought a car and NEVER got a license his entire life. The local cops knew it, but looked the other way because he was wounded in action and a responsible person and well known in the community-- too bad small town life like that is dying off-- no harm no foul) I've seen farmers with a pesticide license, SITTING ON THE FREAKIN' COUNTY COMMITTEE OVERSEEING THE LICENSING PROGRAM, drive up in his front yard and dump 30-40 gallons of cotton insecticide on a concrete slab draining to the grass not 50 feet from his water well, and his dog come running up and lick some of it up. (Same guy nearly killed his daughter when she was a kid, from spraying some bad cotton poison on his garden, and she ate some greens or something that the chemical residue was on. She was hospitalized, and sick for MONTHS after that) Yet, he's IN CHARGE OF THE LICENSES.

A personcan take a half dozen MPR model rockets and a spool of some hair thin conductive wire, and black out a whole region of the country for an indeterminate time. A person can go buy the worst ag chemicals (all they have to do is take a test and pay $50 for a license) and, if a person were a nutcase, go pour it down at least a dozen uncapped oil drilling water wells around this area everybody knows about, putting it directly into the water table, and contaminate the groundwater for miles around. Without too much effort, a person could probably put something similar in the town water tower. With an air compressor and a vacant house to work in, a person could inject the stuff directly into the city water mains from the house plumbing or water meter. A person can go to any local TSC store, buy a tailgate sprayer for their pickup, hook it up to their battery, and fill it with anthrax or whatever else, and drive down the freeways of any major city spraying the stuff into the wind, or through farm country spraying hoof and mouth germs, if they have access to the germs. People have had licenses for firearms and how many nutcases have shot up schoolyards, offices, etc. As others have said, sugar and the other stuff and you have all the rocket propellant you could ever want. Those that know how to make bombs and want to do harm will NEVER be deterred by a 'license' requirement.

The only thing that photo ID and stuff will help with, is after the fact, when the dead are buried and the injured are recovering, is that law enforcement MAY have a chance of getting whoever did it. But that doesn't undo it or bring the dead back. But then, some things are just inevitable. Getting up every morning is a risk...

The question is, where do we strike the balance?? Or more, to the point, where do those in AUTHORITY strike the balance?? Right after 9/11 everything was under scrutiny-- people were afraid they'd use model airplanes as cruise missiles, or spray anthrax from them or something. In agriculture, there was a huge bugaboo about cropdusters-- the feds were scared they'd hijack cropdusters and spray anthrax on a city or something. I guess somebody with a functional brain finally pointed out they could do the same thing with any general aviation plane and a $100 battery powered sprayer from any tractor supply, and in fact it would be preferable since the spray tanks of cropdusters have so much poisonous residue it'd probably kill the anthrax spores! At any rate, they finally got over it, because there are just some things you CAN'T defend against. We get 'duck and cover' type pamphlets as schoolbus drivers and farmers, about terrorism and bioterrorism in the ag industry. It's all cock and bull...

BTW I don't think we've seen the end of this by a longshot. Enjoy it while ya can... OL JR

 

[luke strawwalker]

The S.B. Anthony dollar was only minted a few years. The biggest problem and ultimately the cause of its downfall as a useful coin was with the blind. The blind who rely on coin size and "feel" to be sure they are not only paying the correct amount but receiving it in change, couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the SB dollar; they were just too similar. The teeny size difference was nearly impossible to feel. Even looking at the two it's difficult to tell unless you hold one up against the other. The government clearly didn't think ahead when they designed and minted those coins...not that I'm surprised.

I HATE DOLLAR COINS WITH A PASSION!!! Gimme the greenback, which I can actually carry... dollar coins are too cumbersome and are just a plain, old, rotten, STUPID idea!

Getting rid of the penny makes sense... it's just plain stupid that everything is priced at $#.99 just out of habit, more than anything else. It's just STUPID.

Same thing with gasoline... pricing it at $#.##9 is just STUPID! I remember a few years back, a few gasoline stations in Texas quit pricing gas at "whatever-9" and just rounded up to the next penny. The government went BALLISTIC and forced them back! A penny is stupid in this day and age-- inflation has made it absolutely worthless, so how INCREDIBLY STUPID is it to continue to price gasoline at the going rate *PLUS* 9/10ths of a penny?? It's a rediculous habit going back nearly 100 years when gasoline was a nickel a gallon, and the 'tenths' actually meant something.

Oh well, stupid is as stupid does... OL JR

 

[shreadvector]

Fred, the amount of information you have at your fingertips frightens me a bit...

by the way, a coalition of the blind sucessfully sued the Govenment because the US currency notes are all the same size and they cannot tell them apart. They must rely on expensive/bulky currency readers and fold them in special ways for each different denomination.

When they won the lawsuit, they got significant attorney fees awarded to them and the BEP is going to have to make significant design changes at the next change cycle. The current generation is called "nexgen" or something like that and features the colored papers and lots of additional anti-counterfeiting features (see BEP website for virtual tours of each note). The last of the nexgen is the $100 and it is not out yet (they are waiting for both signatures and that process is not going so well....).

Look for changes in the size of each denomination and the end of the $1 note at that time (or possibly sooner).

 

[shreadvector]

Time to explore "stupid":

You are at the drive through. Is it easier to reach behind you and pull out your wallet and fumble for rag dollars or is it easier to reach in your front pocket (or coin holder on my car) and grab a few dollar coins?

How far will your dollar coin blow away if dropped at the drive through or at a rocket launch? How far for your rag dollar (or $20...)?

Now on to the pricing issue. Eliminating the one cent coin will NOT affect pricing. Prices will still be set to the cent )or to the mil in the case of gasoline or other bulk wholseale goods). When you pay, you pay the total amount due after taxes for the entire transaction. If paying with cash, that gets rounded to the nearest 5 cents using the math taught in elementary school (or the handy graphic below). if paying with a check, debit or credit card, you pay the total rouonded to the nearest cent, as you do now - because taxes result in fractional cents now.

You can still use your one cent coins at the 8-track tape store. By-cracky.

I HATE DOLLAR COINS WITH A PASSION!!! Gimme the greenback, which I can actually carry... dollar coins are too cumbersome and are just a plain, old, rotten, STUPID idea!

Getting rid of the penny makes sense... it's just plain stupid that everything is priced at $#.99 just out of habit, more than anything else. It's just STUPID.

Same thing with gasoline... pricing it at $#.##9 is just STUPID! I remember a few years back, a few gasoline stations in Texas quit pricing gas at "whatever-9" and just rounded up to the next penny. The government went BALLISTIC and forced them back! A penny is stupid in this day and age-- inflation has made it absolutely worthless, so how INCREDIBLY STUPID is it to continue to price gasoline at the going rate *PLUS* 9/10ths of a penny?? It's a rediculous habit going back nearly 100 years when gasoline was a nickel a gallon, and the 'tenths' actually meant something.

Oh well, stupid is as stupid does... OL JR

 

[SecretSquirrel]

Fred is right, $1 bills are stupid and should be taken out of circulation.

Gather up and send all your loose $1 bills to me and I'll dispose of them in an environmentally friendly manner.

 

[dr wogz]

We Canadians got used to the $1 & $2 coin dollar.

It's called a "loonie" because it was a "loonie" idea, and also that it has a picture of a Loon on it..

We've all adapted.. In fact, there are now a slew of Loonies floating around with different faces on them; more enticing to collectors! (The most recent is a Loonie comemerating "Les Canadiens" 100 aniversery (that's the hockey team / club)

Our bank notes are all different colours, and the newer ones feature raised bumps on one corner for the blind.. Another feature on a few (if not many) European bills.

Hey Squirrel, don't you mean 'ecconomical' manner?!

 

[davel]

You are at the drive through. Is it easier to reach behind you and pull out your wallet and fumble for rag dollars or is it easier to reach in your front pocket (or coin holder on my car) and grab a few dollar coins?

Grab my wallet and pull out the bills. I don't fumble with them, and all the change is in a jar at home. Carrying around change is a PITA.

How far will your dollar coin blow away if dropped at the drive through or at a rocket launch? How far for your rag dollar (or $20...)?

Coins get lost in the grass. The paper does not.