shear pins

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Off Grid Gecko

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Guess this is a good place to post this. Just wondering what kind of safety margin you guys give on shear pins (screws, nylon inserts, whatever) to make sure they will snap off when calculating det charges. Testing is assumed but I'd rather not burn up a bunch of ematches trying to skirt the limit.

My DX-3 build that I'm working on for my L2 rocket, I ordered 20lb nylon screws from apogee (It says 3 is 60+some small number pounds to break all of them). at 1 gram (15gn) of powder I'm showing 125 pounds on the bulkhead with the calculator from insanerocketry. Should be good? Should I try less? That was listed at 10psi

Also, do I need to plug up the nose cone? Or is it okay that it fills with gas as well? Part of my brain says it needs to be sealed at the back or that force will also be expanding the gas inside of the nosecone to make it swell/stick/possibly kaboom.

Never been a problem with any of the smaller rockets but there's a lot more wiggle room in a four inch tube where the chute and protector don't really make a plug like in smaller rockets.

I think I have all the theory down, just looking for some wisdom. TY ahead of time.
 
1 gram in a 4" diameter rocket sounds a bit low even without shear pins. I use 1.2 gram on my 4" goblin (determined from ground testing) without shear pins.

Are the 20# screws 2-56? This is what I use on a LOC 54mm (2.6") rocket to hold the nose, but only one screw.
This then needs 1.2gram BP to reliably blow the nose off.
I have found it takes more BP than the calculators indicate.

Others should pipe in but I don't think to open end of the nose cone makes a difference.

My guess is at least 2grams of BP is needed. I would start there and ground test. Do a video of the test, preferably at high speed so you can watch in slow motion or step frame by frame to see the event in detail.
 
The number of pins you need for the nose cone has a lot to do with the weight of the nose cone and your recovery gear and how strong your apogee charge is. If you use a large charge that causes the upper section to slam to the end of the apogee shock cord, the pin(s) have to hold against the inertia of the nose cone and recovery gear hitting the nose cone. You'll probably need an extra pin or two. That will then require a larger main charge to shear them. The whole rocket is a system and you have to test your rocket. What works for one may not work for others. A recommendation for a number of shear pins makes a lot of assumptions about the rocket and some of those assumptions may not be correct for your rocket.

Test, test, and test. The cost of a dozen or so ematches shouldn't stop you from making sure the whole rocket is working correctly and that you get the whole rocket back in one piece.
 
1 gram in a 4" diameter rocket sounds a bit low even without shear pins. I use 1.2 gram on my 4" goblin (determined from ground testing) without shear pins.

Are the 20# screws 2-56? This is what I use on a LOC 54mm (2.6") rocket to hold the nose, but only one screw.
This then needs 1.2gram BP to reliably blow the nose off.
I have found it takes more BP than the calculators indicate.

Others should pipe in but I don't think to open end of the nose cone makes a difference.

My guess is at least 2grams of BP is needed. I would start there and ground test. Do a video of the test, preferably at high speed so you can watch in slow motion or step frame by frame to see the event in detail.
yes 2-56 is what it says on their website. I was also thinking that 2 would probably be enough screws, not sure why the default is automatically 3. Payload bay will contain a 36" nylon parachute (most likely) and a lightweight nylon cord. Nose cone is a plastic deal that came with the kit. Not super heavy,,, nothing up front on it is super heavy, though I may need to add some nose weight by the time I finish as my simulations are coming out less than 1 caliber of stability.

Noted on the charge maybe being a bit small. The plastic is a little bit unreliable as it seems to expand and contract a lot from 70degF to 90degF (at 90 it fills the tube nicely, 70 is super sloppy fit).

My first dual deployment testing will likely be my little yellow monster which is a 38mm tube and I'm confident in the friction fit on the nose cone with that guy. 0.5-0.6 grams of powder seems to pack plenty of punch and might tune it down a lil before doing my first in the rocket test on that one.

2 grams just seems like a lot to me, that's 30gn which is about how much smokeless powder I would put behind a rifle cartridge. I realize this is very apples to oranges but hey, that's what testing is for right? I also plan on putting some aluminum inserts inside the tube where the shear pins will go, just to make sure they have a solid place to shear. I'd imaging distortion of phenolic would probably make a difference in their ability to snap off.

TY for the comments on the nose cone, good to get that opinion. Basically a couple schools of thought on that and I think a lot probably has to do with how quickly the gas is filling everything up and where it's coming from. Or perhaps expanding actually helps a bit like how the skirt on a pellet works.

The number of pins you need for the nose cone has a lot to do with the weight of the nose cone and your recovery gear and how strong your apogee charge is. If you use a large charge that causes the upper section to slam to the end of the apogee shock cord, the pin(s) have to hold against the inertia of the nose cone and recovery gear hitting the nose cone. You'll probably need an extra pin or two. That will then require a larger main charge to shear them. The whole rocket is a system and you have to test your rocket. What works for one may not work for others. A recommendation for a number of shear pins makes a lot of assumptions about the rocket and some of those assumptions may not be correct for your rocket.

Test, test, and test. The cost of a dozen or so ematches shouldn't stop you from making sure the whole rocket is working correctly and that you get the whole rocket back in one piece.

Is there a way to test for this on the ground? Should I drop the loaded ebay/payload/nosecone from my roof on a tether to see if the nose pops off when the shock of the cord tensioning stops it moments before hitting the dirt? Or perhaps test a charge for the apogee simulation with a short shock cord? Hmm, got me wondering now how to really know how big a difference this would make.

Ematch kit is ordered along with some motors for my smaller rocket, so hoping if everything gets here and tested on the lil one I can do a low altitude flight on an MPR at NARAM without worry of losing it and have the drogue backup good enough to ensure she'll survive a hit on grass. That will be my first dual deployment flight, but I'm not sure it'll be ready, so I may have to test it in one of my neighbor's fields,,, but I don't think they'll be too keen to be launching out here rn, we've gotten very little rain the last month and everything is prolly too dry to be launching rockets. Plus I don't have any of that aluminum bar stuff.. So will prolly delay a month at that point.
 
For testing nose retention upon Drogue charge ejection.
Do a ground test of the Drogue charge with fully loaded Ebay, main chute and cords. Then check that the nose stayed on all the way.

Also, videoing the tests and studying what happens is good. Ideally, you want the nose or Ebay/main/nose to eject with enough force (speed) to pull out the chute but not so much the it fully extends the cord.

If you bundle and tape or braid the cord this absorbs energy and greatly reduces the shock when the cord fully extends and allows using a bit larger BP charge to ensure pins are sheared and chute get out. I have found this really is important to to total recovery system preventing component failures and even prevent zippers. The last flight of my 4" Goblin (1400 gram & 30" chute) had the delay go to near 10 seconds, should have been 5 seconds. It was coming in ballistic and deployed about 100 feet from the ground (apogee at 600 feet). No damage to recovery system and no Zipper. The 1/2" nylon cord was braided which absorbed the energy that would have caused damage.

Two 2-56 screws may be enough to keep the nose cone on during Drogue depolyment. One may even do it if the drogue cord absorbs energy as it pulls out.

I run DD on rockets from 24mm to 54mm diameter. So far only the 54mm one (a LOC IRIS) needed a shear pin (one 2-56). The smaller rockets have fairly tight fitting nose cones, a bit tighter than I would do for motor eject only. When I start flying DD I had many failures of various sorts from Main deploy at Apogee (nose came off with Drogue charge) to Nose NOT coming off with main charge (pins not shearing). None were catastrophic as some recovery deployed, Drogue slowed rocket enough for a fast landing but no severe damage or a longer drift and walk to recover.

Only thing you can do is Ground test, analysis video, adjust, re-test then fly and analysis any anomalies or failures. Then adjust and try again. When it all works properly it is a good feeling.
 
Yes, ground testing is very important. Many times I've found that the calcs were not near enough. Fit, residual paint, dirt, talc or not, can impact. I, too, video every test. I also keep an Excel spreadsheet of the calcs, test results, no. and size of shear pins, notes, etc. That way when I'm prepping for a launch I rely on what's worked. For cardboard AFs I use brass shims to help shear the screws and minimize damage to the cardboard. I rough one side and apply the epoxy to that and use a c-clamp to hold into place, then drill a hole for the pin. Then I check to make sure there are no rough corners or edges, filing or sanding if any. Has worked well for me.
 

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