Sequoia Sempervirens, a Knights Templar treeship from Hyperion

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ReynoldsSlumber

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2023
Messages
370
Reaction score
485
Location
California
Inspired by the various delightful "half-baked" and "dubious" design threads around here, I was casting about for a cool sci-fi design to put together. I've yet to come up with a spacecraft concept completely sui generis, but in terms of bringing ideas from science fiction literature to life, a thought hit me as while watering my (very humble) bonsai garden. The idea is to make a flying model of a spaceship found in the Hyperion Cantos, a floridly imaginative 4-novel series penned by Dan Simmons: a Knights Templar treeship, the Sequoia Sempervirens.

As envisaged, a treeship is a faster-than-light-capable spaceship with an oversized living coast redwood tree (sequoia sempervirens) as its main structure. While another treeship, the Yggdrassil, is also featured in the story, that one's name is a reference to another tree from legend, which happens to be a non-redwood species. For the purposes of this project, the literalist name Sequoia sounds right to me.

Here's some descriptive text from Hyperion (1995), chapter 5:

[Minor spoiler alert for Hyperion, if you'd like to be surprised by reading this part]
[T]he kilometer-long treeship [...], the treeship's details blurred by the redundant machine and erg-generated containment fields which surrounded it like a spherical mist, but its leafy bulk clearly ablaze with thousands of lights which shone softly through leaves and thin-walled environment pods, or along countless platforms, bridges command decks, stairways and bowers. Around the base of the treeship, engineering and cargo spheres clustered like oversized galls while blue and violet streamers trailed behind like ten kilometer-long roots [...]
[From] the edge of the walkway, [...] It was at least six hundred meters down—down being created by the one-sixth standard gravity being generated by the singularities imprisoned at the base of the tree [...]
A Templar treeship normally carried between two and five thousand passengers[.]

I'd encourage you to take a moment before scrolling onward to think up your own vision for what a treeship might look like.

Back outside of the realm of Simmons's imagination, though giant sequoias (sequoiadendron giganteum) are the most massive trees, coast redwoods are the tallest. In fact the tallest one currently known, topping 380 feet tall (and its location a poorly-kept secret), has been dubbed Hyperion. I'm not sure, but I imagine that rather than a reference to the Simmons book or the Keats poem that Simmons in turn referenced, it's in honor of the original bearer of the name, the Greek mythological titan.

About the project at hand, to set expectations for a moment: it's ambitious, and it might never happen. On its own, cultivating the coast redwood sapling I'm starting with into the right shape and size will likely take a few years of growth and occasional trimming. It will take cutting back existing branches without them dying, the tree growing more branches, the trunk thickening over time (which still won't be all that thick in that amount of time), etc. I'm not even that good at bonsai! Though I could build the rocket up front and let the tree "grow into it;" we'll see.

In any case, for this design, right off the bat I'm going to deviate from the "spherical" descriptor for the overall shape. I don't know whether it was the author's artistic license or just by mistake—it's alternately a common misconception that the crown of a fully-grown redwood tree is pyramid-shaped—but the more accurate geometry for an old-growth redwood tree would be cylindrical, with approximately equal-length branches sprouting from the upper half or two-thirds of the trunk, tapering at the very top. Which is quite convenient for making a model rocket! Meanwhile, to make a cylindrical "containment field" tree envelope, luckily clear plastic 2-liter soda bottles have pretty close to the right shape, strength, and weight.

Scraggly coast redwood bonsai tree, clear 2L soda bottles

So, here we go:

Sequoia Sempervirens oblique front viewSequoia Sempervirens oblique back view
Sequoia Sempervirens model rocket diagram

As shown it's 32" long, with a full-circle "fin span" to the tips of the feet of 19". Regarding the tree envelope, a Sprite 2-liter bottle has some nice molded-in sci-fi-esque shapes, which also help with stiffness, while a generic smooth soda bottle has a blunter top shape, which makes the nose design easier to work out. The nose, with the bottle cap secured inside, unscrews for access to the treetop trunk anchor. For the envelope disassembly joint at the base of the tree, I'm envisioning using tape to attach the bottle parts together, to allow ready access for tending to the tree as well as "re-potting" it. The bottom of a 2-liter soda bottle has five lobes, so naturally the rocket should have five fins. This will be good for landing stability, like an office chair's legs, as well as for fin area for flight stability. The balsa ring fin is structural, like an aircraft wing strut, so that the fins have enough strength even though they're surface-mounted.

Cross-section view of the aft portion of the rocket Spring-dampler tube extended and compressed

The shock absorbers are canted outward only so far as will still allow them to compress during a perfectly vertical landing. If the air damping is too strong, I can poke a small hole in the side of each cylinder to increase airflow. Funny enough, the 10mm diameter paper core of a dog poop bag roll seems about the right size to make a piston.

In the rear ejection system, the piece of coupler tube is there to prevent binding as the motor spool exits the body tube. The current concept is that shock cord lines run from the nose anchors to the motor spool and then from there to three parachutes. The shock cords being draped over the ring fin pre-deployment hopefully will help pull the motor spool and parachutes out to one side as the parachutes unfurl, to avoid shock cord entanglement with the landing legs as the body swings around to descend feet-first. Quite the aerial ballet to orchestrate! And perhaps overly stressful on the 2-liter bottles. If it comes to it, I could ugly it up with reinforcing stringers down the inside of the envelope, attached to the stiffener rings.

Sequoia Sempervirens with a lattice inside the soda bottle envelope

Hmm, perhaps there's a better place to attach the shock cords than at the tip of the nose. Like maybe the front tips of the fin roots, since those are likely ahead of the CG.

Meanwhile, I think anti-tangle precautions rule out having trailing streamers per Simmons's vision. Too bad, such a detail would've been very cool.

The overall functional concept motivating this design is to try to keep forces on the tree in the positive g range, and not too high of g. That means build as light as possible, employ rear ejection to avoid negative g's, and try my darndest to land it upright. Calm weather flying only here. The really tricky part is that landing it on its feet would be helped by an aft CG, for which the weight of the dirt at the bottom end of the tree envelope helps, but which is obviously in conflict with proper flight stability. Meanwhile, adding nose weight isn't really an option due to the fragility of the soda bottles. If it ends up needing more stability, if increasing the already large fin area isn't effective enough due to the short distance to the CG... the only option left would be to lengthen the motor tube section. Which again makes it harder to land upright. Plus it would take away from trying to make the tree be visually dominant. This isn't supposed to be just payload rocket that happens to have a tree in it, it's supposed to be a treeship. So, getting decent CG and CP location estimates before it's built will be critical. If not by simulation, maybe I should prove it out with a smaller-scale model in a homemade wind tunnel? Haha...

Finally, I'm disinclined to go overboard on detailing, especially given weight constraints, but also not to clutter it visually. Especially since the model is about 1/1250 scale! That said, it is tempting to have some fun with making passenger and crew accommodations. There'll have to be at least a little on there, dwarfed by the "great bulk" of the redwood tree. :)
 
Last edited:
Prospective black powder and reloadable composite motors:
  • 24mm:
    • E12-4 Estes - I wish, but very unlikely
    • E18-4W Aerotech 24/40
    • F24-4W Aerotech 24/40
  • 29mm:
    • E16-4 Estes - case may make it too heavy
    • F15-4 Estes - unlikely?
    • E16-4W Aerotech 29/40-120 - unlikely with the heavier case
    • E23-5T Aerotech 29/40-120 - delay too long?
    • F22-5J Aerotech 29/40-120
The motor tube as shown is 29mm, but maybe I can get away with 24mm, if I can keep the weight to 500g. A single empty Sprite bottle is already 46g, whew. I'd really rather not get into the G motor range. Things like the weight of the dirt will be critical. Don't water the tree before flight!

I'm open to thoughtful ideas about ways to improve the design. Some things that have come to mind:
  • Make the tree envelope shorter? Could take out that middle Sprite bottle section, which would mean a shorter, less impressive tree but improved stability going both up and down.
  • Parachutes housed up top? Could route the ejection charge pressure to them via a conduit tube up the side. Would also be nice for landing CG to keep the motor down there.
  • Side ejection? Would mean a different fin design; sounds complicated and heavy.
  • Ditch the upright landing requirement? Sure would free up the design space and make things lighter. Plus, it would mean the trailing streamers would be back on, too fun. Would need to really secure that root ball dirt though... and it would be a rather ignominious conclusion to a flight for the proud coast redwood.
 
Last edited:
I looked at it and immediately assumed it was a water rocket.

I think you should grow your bonsai in a centrifuge for a few months.
 
A "treeship" should be, for the most part, made from wood... at least that's my thoughts.

Looks like a lot of work getting all those flimsy plastic 2 liter bottles to line up. But you've put considerable design time into this one and I'm intrigued.

Have you worked on a simulation for this? A G74-4 might be a better choice.

008.JPG
 
Last edited:
Centrifuge bonsai, haven't seen that anyone's ever tried that, @lr64. Good for "astronaut training?"

Heh, @lakeroadster, let's just say you and I have very disparate design philosophies. I'm not gonna subject the poor little bonsai tree to a G74! Have mercy. Even the rule-of-thumb 5 g's is pushing it. I'm thinking of a flight profile similar to an Estes 1/100 Saturn V on a D12-3.

I hear you on the wood aspect—given that the fins are balsa, I could leave them exposed and give them a redwood stain. But instead I want to emphasize the live tree and to try to make it more visually dominant... challenging as that is to accomplish, since there's no getting around the mass of the dirt. I can still minimize that, by just keeping the tree's "root ball" for flight, as contrasted with the somewhat larger pot of dirt that it grows in otherwise. (Once mature, bonsai don't take much dirt in any case). Also, I considered coloring the body tube and fin section black, to de-emphasize it visually, but to try to hide it seemed aesthetically wrong.

Thanks @neil_w, "magnificently loony" is about the highest praise I could hope for! Very much appreciate your and everyone's encouragement.
 
Last edited:
Sequoia Sempervirens phase 2: leaner and meaner

That's it, I'm committing to a 24mm motor tube. "Simplicate and add lightness," sayeth Trimotor designer Bill Stout. Amen.

The center 2-liter bottle section is out, making it a single Sprite bottle for the back half and a generic soda bottle for the front half, to save weight, help with strength, and improve stability both on the way up (since the CG ain't moving much, a longer nose is only more destabilizing) and during landing. I realized that I need to prioritize design for flight over other considerations (duh), and it's just gonna take cultivating the tree to fit.

And... it's gotta be side ejection. This has several advantages:
  • It makes it so that the 2-liter bottles aren't in the load path during parachute deployment
  • It avoids a problem of rear ejection, which is that it would accelerate the main body (while also making the main body more stable!) and thus increase parachute opening forces
  • It keeps the motor casing in place at the aft end, where its mass helps with the model staying upright during landing
  • If it does manage to land upright, lower-down shock cord mounts make the parachutes less likely to tip the model over after-the-fact
  • Between the sideways impulse of ejection and throwing the recovery system out sideways, it could reduce the risk of a shock cord tangling on one of the landing legs (so one hopes)
I've extended the body tube a bit and shifted the fin trailing edges way back, for a longer moment arm for aerodynamic stability. The new overall length is 30", so 1/1350 scale. :) There's a boat tail now, with tabs from the fins going through the wall there for strength. The ring fin airfoil is canted leading-edge-outward to encourage the airflow to follow the boat tail, to reduce base drag (a pet peeve of mine). Such a feature is perhaps gratuitous on a design that's otherwise draggy already, and it's still to be seen whether I can fabricate such a thing, but it'll be fun to try!

SeqSemp 23.pngSeqSemp 22.pngSeqSemp 30.png

Oh and as you can see there's now a rudimentary tree represented in the CAD model.

I'll detail the envisioned side ejection and recovery deployment sequence in another post.
 
And... it's gotta be side ejection. This has several advantages:
[...]
The ring fin airfoil is canted leading-edge-outward to encourage the airflow to follow the boat tail to reduce base drag (a pet peeve of mine).
Boy you are really maximizing the challenge for this one.
Such a feature is perhaps gratuitous on a design that's otherwise draggy already
Well, yeah, obviously. :) I admit this isn't necessarily the build where I would choose to do such a thing. You've already got your hands full there, and also unless you have a wind tunnel or CFD you'll have no way of quantifying the effect of the ring.
and it's still to be seen whether I can fabricate such a thing, but it'll be fun to try!
I don't *think* it will be that difficult if you make it like a standard cardstock transtion. It's just a very large transition. Standard transition tools should have no problem with it. I'd make it *at least* 3 layers, given the size... maybe even four. Store it for a while on an appropriate-sized mandrel to enforce its roundness. Embedding it in the fins the way your renders show is another bit of challenge.

Of course implementing as a standard cylindrical ring will be much easier.
Beautiful CAD model.
 
Very interesting! Looks pretty cool. Hopefully you can get it to sim well enough.

I read the Hyperion series back in the 90's and loved them. In fact, a few months ago I ordered a brand-new set. I found out in the early 2000's my brother decided to toss two books of my hardback set that I loaned to him so I had to have them. Also, you may find Greg Bear's, EON and ETERNITY plus the prequel, LEGACY interesting. No doubt you've read A.C. Clark's RAMA series.

Happy reading and good luck with the Treeship!
 
snip
You've already got your hands full there, and also unless you have a wind tunnel or CFD you'll have no way of quantifying the effect of the ring.
snip
Not without being clever, maybe. A model on a pole with a pivot at the expected CG might be informative.

Or a model dropped from a kite. Or a small model lofted by a booster with BIG fins. Or thrown from a tall building..... The Reynolds number might be relevant, so make the small model as heavy as the real thing and the number will be right* when falling. Tests with lower Reynolds numbers might be a little pessimistic about separation. If you're really worried about drag, maybe you should bring the back down to barely larger than the diameter of the motor. I don't see anything in the description about the spheres being outside the field, maybe I missed it. If they weren't, they could be faired in by the shell. Also, it sounds like the shell could be translucent. Suggest many tiny LEDs inside, especially if launched or exhibited at night. Maybe surface mount.

I have to admit I wonder whether an inward canted ring would be stabilizing or de-stabilizing.


*This side of transonic effects, if the weight and shape are the same, and speed is determined by weight vs drag, then the size won't affect the Reynolds number. This works for models of airplanes, too. But only for really big models and/or really light airplanes. For instance, a 1/10 scale model of a Skypup ultralight would probably stall at something like 280 mph and cruise at Mach 0.5 .
 
On canted ring fins, so long as they're lifting, with attached airflow, they're still stabilizing, like any other fin. More nose tilt off-axis, more restoring torque. But if just the lee part of an outward-canted ring stalls, while the windward part is still lifting outward, that lift could swing the tail further out (at least until the windward side's lift diminishes to become equivalent in torque to the lee side's drag). So, there's a range of angles of attack there where it could be destabilizing, good point! Perhaps it's even a locally stable canted attitude that the rocket could get stuck in, like deep stall on the early rear-engined jet airliner prototypes.

What really started me on this is because a straight ring fin somewhat undoes what a boat tail is trying to do. A boat tail makes the airflow converge behind the rocket (especially once the voracious gas generator known as motor exhaust cuts off for coast), whereas a straight cylindrical ring fin around a boat tail would work against that.

On boat tails, I'm not convinced than anything steeper than a 7° half cone angle is doing much anyway, since it's probably stalled beyond that. Especially if the transition from the main tube is sharp, like how it is in this design, rather than gently blended.

I hear you @neil_w on making a cardstock conical ring fin, though it wouldn't be nearly as stiff as balsa, and I wouldn't be able to put an airfoil on it, which on an outward-canted ring fin is risky because of the aforementioned chance of stalling (never mind the undesirability of plain ol' drag if it is stalled). Though a canted/conical ring fin might be stiffer than a straight/cylindrical ring fin.

Maybe I'll content myself with a less-aggressive boat tail and a cylindrical balsa ring fin with an asymmetric airfoil sanded into it.

As for construction for strength, not wanting to cut a huge slot through the main fins... I think the way to go is to make the ring fin in separate one-fifth-arc pieces and then put a small dowel through the main fin at each attachment point, which would go into the roots of the ring fins on either side, for reinforcement. It's probably easier to construct partial arcs anyway, avoids the overlap problem at 360°. Just gotta take extra care with visual alignment when attaching them!
 
Last edited:
I don't see anything in the description about the spheres being outside the field, maybe I missed it. If they weren't, they could be faired in by the shell. Also, it sounds like the shell could be translucent. Suggest many tiny LEDs inside, especially if launched or exhibited at night.
Fun ideas there, @lr64. Would call for using something smaller than ping pong balls to represent the "cargo" spheres. I was also considering putting them between the tree canopy and the dirt, but I didn't want to block views of the trunk. LOL on adding a lighting system, tempting, and this thing basically is indeed more art project than model rocket, but that's perhaps one feature too many!

Good stuff @Rocketholic — I have indeed read the Rama series; will check out Greg Bear's stuff, thanks.
 
Last edited:
Side ejection

SeqSemp 33.png

SeqSemp 32.png

By the way, I tried out a couple different parachute bay wall shapes to better encourage clean ejection, but they seemed unnecessarily complicated and restrictive of the parachute bay volume, so I didn't use them.
SeqSemp 28.png

Parachute deployment

SeqSemp 41.png

The thing I'm most worried about here is that the fins with shock absorbers on their tips are basically asking to snag shock cords and get parachutes tangled up. Perhaps it could help to run lines as shown to prevent the shock cords from snagging. Think so? Doing this also comes with a drag penalty, like wing bracing wires on a World War I-era biplane.
SeqSemp 42.png

The little blue square is tape that holds the shock cords halfway between the fins, until the parachute opening tension pulls the shock cords free from the tape. Maybe not the greatest idea—such a function would perhaps be better handled by a small solid piece with a notch in it or something.

Also, I have yet to place launch lugs on this thing. What's a typical diameter of launch rod at a club launch etc., 1/4"? Or is 3/16" along with some other larger size for mid-power rockets more common?
 
I have to take time to read all this later (lunch hour is over) so please forgive me if this has already been covered.

Do you have a plan for energy dissipation in the shock absorbers? To a simple view, a spring just holds energy for a time then gives it all back. To a closer view, there's friction in what I see in post #1, but not much. So you might want something more to ensure the legs don't bounce.

I just finished typing about greasing the dowels or adding small vent holes, and then realized that, based on your username, I'd be insulting you by explaining things you obviously know better than I do.
 
I have to take time to read all this later (lunch hour is over) so please forgive me if this has already been covered.

Do you have a plan for energy dissipation in the shock absorbers? To a simple view, a spring just holds energy for a time then gives it all back. To a closer view, there's friction in what I see in post #1, but not much. So you might want something more to ensure the legs don't bounce.

I just finished typing about greasing the dowels or adding small vent holes, and then realized that, based on your username, I'd be insulting you by explaining things you obviously know better than I do.
There's this stuff called damping grease which provides more resistance as things happen faster. However, ideally you'd want damping only on the return stroke.
 
Looking at the images, I'd be concerned that the rocket isn't going to fall feet first under chute. The chute connections must be pretty close to the CG, so it looks like it's going to want to be turning all over the place, especially with four/five chutes working together and one on a longer shock cord.
 
There's this stuff called damping grease which provides more resistance as things happen faster. However, ideally you'd want damping only on the return stroke.
Stuff like the viscous friction of damping grease, and the potential to vent air through a small hole are the very things I wrote about and then removed because someone called Reynold's Slumber undoubtedly know better than I do.

I'm not so sure you'd only want damping on the return stroke. Damping, no matter when, is the shedding of kinetic energy, no matter whether it's lost while spring potential energy is increasing of decreasing. On the way down form touch down, kinetic energy is converted to spring potential energy, and with damping some is lost at the same time. During the return stroke, spring potential energy is converted back to kinetic, and some energy can be lost at the same time. Loss is loss, I think.
 
I read your post, but I mentioned damping grease because I wasn't sure everyone knew about it. Certainly it took some years before I heard of it. It's different from regular grease.

It's my understanding that car shock absorbers have a check valve so that there's more damping on the return stroke. This makes sense, if the mechanical spring rate is adequate, because otherwise the forces in the suspension will be much higher when hitting a sharp bump.
 
I have to take time to read all this later (lunch hour is over) so please forgive me if this has already been covered.

Do you have a plan for energy dissipation in the shock absorbers? To a simple view, a spring just holds energy for a time then gives it all back. To a closer view, there's friction in what I see in post #1, but not much. So you might want something more to ensure the legs don't bounce.

I just finished typing about greasing the dowels or adding small vent holes, and then realized that, based on your username, I'd be insulting you by explaining things you obviously know better than I do.
It's all good, comments of all kinds welcome! I'm just glad when people find my posts worthwhile and engage. (I've been perhaps excessively verbose on this one—went over the character limit in the initial post and had to put the rest in a comment, ha.) And designs like this are very much the better for everyone's input.

I was thinking that, using a cardboard piston and cylinder, the blow-by might be about right for damping. But given the speed of impact, allowance for more flow through small holes near the top of the cylinder could be good, and they could be easier to tune than by adjusting the piston fit anyway.

At Ø 10mm (0.4") I'm worried that dog-poop-bag-roll-core-based pistons will be too small. Would be nice to have a larger piston circumference for more air blow-by damping effect, and the air volume inside may just be too tiny. (In the image, the golf ball and metal tube are shown for scale, approximately equivalent to a ping pong ball and the eventual paper cylinder size.) Will have to try it out. It would be nice to keep it small, though, since the fin tips are about the worst place to add mass.
shock - 1.jpeg

Neat idea on damping grease @lr64 — I guess that's non-Newtonian fluid grease? The tricky part being that for the piston and cylinder I'd want to use something other than just cardboard.

Also would be very cool to have minimal damping on the compression stroke and then more heavily dampen the spring-back, so that the shock has lots of give for dulling the impact and then doesn't have so much bounce on the return that it tips the rocket over. Again not sure how to accomplish that in cardboard! At least in the shock itself; could instead put sacrificial crush pads on the bottoms of the feet for that purpose.

There's some similarity to normal model rocket parachute shock cords: what you really want is for the tension to decelerate the nose cone until it stops, and right then for the tension to drop to nearly zero so that it doesn't spring back.
 
snip



Neat idea on damping grease @lr64 — I guess that's non-Newtonian fluid grease? The tricky part being that for the piston and cylinder I'd want to use something other than just cardboard.

Also would be very cool to have minimal damping on the compression stroke and then more heavily dampen the spring-back, so that the shock has lots of give for dulling the impact and then doesn't have so much bounce on the return that it tips the rocket over. Again not sure how to accomplish that in cardboard! At least in the shock itself; could instead put sacrificial crush pads on the bottoms of the feet for that purpose.

There's some similarity to normal model rocket parachute shock cords: what you really want is for the tension to decelerate the nose cone until it stops, and right then for the tension to drop to nearly zero so that it doesn't spring back.
Normal grease is non-Newtonian, i.e. as the shear rate goes up, the required shear force doesn't go up proportionally. I think that damping grease is more like a Newtonian fluid than regular grease is.

I think epoxy saturated cardboard would work fine if you were sufficiently enthusiastic with the saturation.

If you were using air for damping, you might use a check valve to vary the damping. Perhaps it could be as simple as a flap of balloon material glued down at one end, with an air hole underneath it.

Maybe it would be possible to set up the legs like the ones on the Mars Lander, with the springs and cylinders inside.

Alternatively, I wonder if rare earth magnets are strong enough for magnetic damping. You could have one pushed through an aluminum or copper tube. (copper provides more damping, if I'm not mistaken). If this isn't intuitive, try sliding a small, strong rare earth magnet with a flat face down a steeply inclined aluminum pan or copper pipe. Don't let it roll, it must slide. I'm guessing, though, that this might require a stronger magnet than is available, or else thicker aluminum or copper than you'd want to use.

OTOH, I'm not sure something this small and light actually needs any kind of shock absorber.

BTW, it occurs to me that if you pressurized the 2 liter bottle a little, you could use the sides as springs. Maybe just glue the legs to it. Not so much damping, though. Maybe a small plastic bottle under the big one.
 
Looking at the images, I'd be concerned that the rocket isn't going to fall feet first under chute.
Fair point. Anyone have a guess of how many calibers of distance between the shock cord mounts and the CG would be enough to make fairly sure that the model descends feet-first?

Not having calculated anything yet, my wild-assed guess at the CG and CP locations is in red:
SeqSemp 44.png

The shock cord mounts could move forward, along with the disassembly joint which is currently at the narrowest part of the soda bottles. My concerns would be the strength of the shock cord mounts against parachute opening along with still being able to reach the dirt when the nose is taken off for "repotting" etc.

The green circle indicates the CG for 45° tip-over, and the blue circle shows it for 30°. So I've gotta keep that nose really light for landing and rely on fin area to keep the CP back for ascent.

Aside: in this plan update I've moved the feet as far forward as they can go without the back of a fin hitting the ground if a shock bottoms out. That's so that on landing it maximizes the allowable tilt angle without the CG getting out beyond the footprint and leading to tip-over. The fins are starting to get a little narrow toward the tips for adequate strength. Thinking of using 1/8" balsa ply for the fins, plus papering. Also, this shows a straight cylindrical (asymmetrically airfoiled) ring fin. :)
 
If you were using air for damping, you might use a check valve to vary the damping. Perhaps it could be as simple as a flap of balloon material glued down at one end, with an air hole underneath it.
Simple, lightweight, uses household materials—excellent. I could even take a party balloon, cut the top off, and take the neck and slide it onto the shock cylinder over the damping vent holes, done. One thing I'l have to be careful about is to not let it look too... phallic.
 
I think epoxy saturated cardboard would work fine if you were sufficiently enthusiastic with the saturation.
Cardboard saturated and coated with water glass might be lighter.
Alternatively, I wonder if rare earth magnets are strong enough for magnetic damping. You could have one pushed through an aluminum or copper tube. (copper provides more damping, if I'm not mistaken). If this isn't intuitive, try sliding a small, strong rare earth magnet with a flat face down a steeply inclined aluminum pan or copper pipe. Don't let it roll, it must slide.
Or for the demonstration, just drop strong magnet down a copper or aluminum tube held vertically.


But you might run into the safety code prohibition on metal parts for the main structural parts of the rocket.
1. Materials
I will use only lightweight, non-metal parts for the nose, body, and fins of my rocket.​
Do the shock absorber tubes fall within this? Debatable.
------------------------------------
View attachment 655137
The little blue square is tape that holds the shock cords halfway between the fins, until the parachute opening tension pulls the shock cords free from the tape. Maybe not the greatest idea—such a function would perhaps be better handled by a small solid piece with a notch in it or something.
My thought is a pea size (or even lentil size) ball of clay or Fun-Tak (or generic equivalent).
Also, I have yet to place launch lugs on this thing. What's a typical diameter of launch rod at a club launch etc., 1/4"? Or is 3/16" along with some other larger size for mid-power rockets more common?
1/8 and 3/16. Some will have 1/4.
 
Last edited:
The dampers could be inside the rocket. It would be best if the mechanics were set p so that the magnets moved faster than the feet. The copper or aluminum could be stranded wire or wrapped foil. But I don't know if you could get a magnet strong enough to make it lightweight.
 
Treeship conceptual visualization

Here's what I think a treeship could "actually" look like, going from the fictional account and disregarding any model-making considerations, with an elliptical rather than spherical "containment field." In Hyperion, faster-than-light spaceships are called "spinships" with a "Hawking drive" (in honor of Stephen Hawking). Such spaceships have to get well clear of anything else in space before they "spin up" the drive to go faster than light. So here that takes the form of a synchrotron particle accelerator-like ring in blue. As for slower-than-light-speed propulsion, I don't remember whether the books described anything specific, so I made up a "space-time aether jet" sort of thing in purple. The spheres at the aft end are for the gravity-producing singularities, and the gray and white spheres are engineering and cargo vessels. Not shown are the passenger and crew accommodations, as well as a forest floor of foliage and accompanying critters, which would only be appropriate. The streamers ended up looking more like something from aquatic life than root-like.

treeship 3.png
treeship 4.png
treeship 5.png

Presented for fun, as I think the rocket design is about as close to this as I could make it. Most of the elements are there, like the ring fin representing the Hawking drive. (Though it would be cool to make a static model along the lines of this design, one heck of a "bonsai pot.")
 
Last edited:
Back
Top