Separate Forum For PMC / Plastic Model Conversion ?

[Ez2cDave]

Plastic Model Conversion, aka "PMC", is a popular event and is an event at many NARAM's, including NARAM-53 in 2011.

There is a dedicated Forum for Scale, but not for PMC . . . Without it, people are forced to post messages in other TRF forums, making locating information difficult.

How many people would like to see a new Forum on TRF, dedicated to PMC ?

Who is the person to contact about getting that done, if there is sufficient interest ?

Dave

 

[troj]

Who is the person to contact about getting that done, if there is sufficient interest ?

You can direct such requests to any forum staff member -- just about any change gets discussed amongst the group of us before any action is taken.

We also try to monitor all the forums and all the threads, to make sure that things are flowing smoothly.

-Kevin

 

[gpoehlein]

An alternative would be to use the Scale forum and just preface the title of a thread with "PMC-". An example would be "PMC-1/32 F104 Starfighter"

 

[Gillard]

An alternative would be to use the Scale forum and just preface the title of a thread with "PMC-". An example would be "PMC-1/32 F104 Starfighter"

and get posters to use the tags with PMC to make searching easier.

 

[MarkII]

I would think that PMC-related posts would go into the "Competition Rocketry" forum. (Please - it needs more traffic!) Scale has its own forum because not everyone builds scale for competition. It is also a much broader area than PMC, at least by my thinking. You can build scale models for micro, LPR, MPR and HPR, whereas with PMC you are pretty much limited to LPR (and micro). I'm sure that some folks convert plastic models for fun, too, but mainly it is a contest event. If it turns out that there is a whole lot more plastic model conversion being done than I'm aware of, then there might be a case for it having a separate forum. But I think that 95% of it would fit right into the aforementioned competition forum. (The other 5% could go into Scale.)

 

[gpoehlein]

I suggested putting the posts in Scale simply because that is what the vast majority of PMCs are - scale models of either rockets or aircraft.

 

[MarkII]

I suggested putting the posts in Scale simply because that is what the vast majority of PMCs are - scale models of either rockets or aircraft.

That makes sense too. I can get behind it.

 

[Micromeister]

Plastic model conversions have usually been posted in the Micro, LPR and MPR power forums.
I'm sure a search of these and in TRF 1.0 files will turn up several threads that have been listed there.

PMC while popular with some of us... is not just flown for competition it's also often flown for fun. I'm a big fan of PMC but don't believe it's widely particapated in by the average rocketeer. I know i've tried to get discussions started a couple times with PMC threads in the past without much in the way of additional participants. I beileve the last was a 1/170th XB-70 Valkerie 6 MMX motor cluster conversion?

I'd be happy to particapate with stuff to a seperate PMC forum if it were to be added. but I'd be willing to bet it won't get much more traffic then the PMC yahoo group gets which isn't much.

Dave:
Might I also suggest a visit to the www.narhams.org web site library. Look in the Tech-Tip folds for 009 Plastic Model Conversion. An 11 pg pdf PMC primer with a ton of useful info.

 

[Micromeister]

That makes sense too. I can get behind it.

I disagree it's a Craftsmanship competition, NOT a Scale compeititon.

 

[rstaff3]

These look great. Earlier, I added the F-104 as a subject in the galleries forum. Maybe a mod can cross post the previous item to that gallery?

 

[JAL3]

These look great. Earlier, I added the F-104 as a subject in the galleries forum. Maybe a mod can cross post the previous item to that gallery?

Done!

 

[MarkII]

I disagree it's a Craftsmanship competition, NOT a Scale compeititon.

Isn't scale a craftsmanship competition, too?

 

[Micromeister]

Isn't scale a craftsmanship competition, too?

It is but there is a BIG difference between Scale craftsmenship and PMC craftsmenship.... mainly Nothing gets measured.
Scale works on building a SCALE MODEL of a specific prototype vehicle in very minute detail. PMCs focus is on converting a STATIC MODEL for flight not worring so much about how close to "SCALE" the plastic model actually is. This is mainly because MOST plastic models are very FAR from true SCALE. The manufactures take a lot of liberties with dimensions, varients and details that ya just can't get away with on a real SCALE model of a specific prototype. Sure they are visually close to the outline but if you really start measuring things they go very wrong in a hurry.

A Craftsmanship forum would contain both, while Scale and PMC just don't fit together under a single heading of SCALE.

 

[troj]

PMC, to me, is a fascinating undertaking. It's not something I'm interested in doing (no time to add that to the other projects), but I'm always impressed by what folks are able to fly!

-Kevin

 

[MarkII]

A Craftsmanship forum would contain both, while Scale and PMC just don't fit together under a single heading of SCALE.

OK, now I see where you're coming from. I think of PMC as primarily an event in rocket competitions, when in fact it is a more general category of rocket building that is just as often done for sport models. I think of scale in opposite terms, as a broad category of rocket building that is mostly done for sport rockets and is only incidentally also a competition event. You see PMC as a general category, and scale as a competition event. I see scale as a general category, and PMC as a competition event. No wonder we can't agree! If we both narrowed our definitions of both categories to just events in rocket meets, then your proposal above would make sense. But here's the rub: I see the Scale forum as being about more than just the competition event called Scale. So I wouldn't be in favor of demoting it and throwing it into a Craftsmanship (as in competitive craftsmanship) forum. Assuming that what you say is true about PMC being a more general activity and not just restricted to competition, then it shouldn't be thrown into that Craftsmanship category either. So that blows up that forum idea.

 

[Micromeister]

Reading all that I'm afraid you have no idea where i'm coming from; Has little or nothing to do with competition events or not.
The misuse of the Term "Scale" is SO rampant with our hobby. If we look at the definitions of both terms we find:
" Scale, Ratio between the dimensions of a representation and those of the object." source; Websters newworld dictionary 2nd edition
Up and Down Scales of standard model rockets are OK examples. 3X up, 2X down it's a measured ratio. 1: 73.3 of an the original Mercury-Atlas, Absoluetely Yes Thats SCALE. a BT-55 repersentation Merc-Atlas? not unless there is a scale developed for it. There has to be Craftsmanship..with Measurable accuracy.


" Conversion: A change from one belief,condition,doctrine,opinion or religion to another." Same source.

When we look at "many" of the so called Scale models presented in our forums we find they only LOOSELY, curdly if you will, following the outline of the original prototype vehicle. Not even close to "Scale". ie Estes Bullpup, Jayhawk, Honest John and so on. semi-scale YES... Scale; not even close. Scale modelers generally spend more time researching the size of the machine screw heads that hold the fins on a vehicle then it takes many to build the semi-scale offerings they often speak of a "Scale". Scale is a very closely defined repersentation of specific rounds or flights of a given subject. Sorry I'm a bit of a purest when it comes to Scale modeling. Many think anything that sort of looks like the original is a scale model. Again Semi-Scale, Stand-off Scale, Sure...but Scale?...nope; I just can't group them all together. Craftsmanship is in the precision of the DETAILS as well as the General outline and/or general construction.

Where as in PMC: We don't even worry about the "Scale"... 1/144th, 1/72nd, 1/48th 1/32nd etc it just doesn't matter, any one of them will do. We're starting from a "semi-scale" of a mass produced vehicle who's general outlines is roughly the same. Manufactured as a static reprersentation of this general type vehicle be it Plane, boat, Car or what-have-you, Our interest is Changing it's configuration ONLY ENOUGH for it to fly, and only that which is necessary for safe & somewhat stable flight. Can we add things to the model... ONLY if they are inlcuded in the kit or visable on the box art. In PMC were not perfecting the SCALE of the model rather making it flyable.

Very Clear and easy to see differences. Scale and PMC are completely different animals.

 

[MarkII]

Hmm. Incredibly specific, hair-splitting interpretation of the term. Well, whatever. I don't think that your previously- mentioned forum scheme will find much support.

 

[Micromeister]

Hmm. Incredibly specific, hair-splitting interpretation of the term. Well, whatever. I don't think that your previously- mentioned forum scheme will find much support.

The Difference is more like Logs then hairs Mark. One to create...the other to convert... How simple and streight forward can it get?

What the heck are you talking about? I suggested no forum scheme. Did state firmly that PMC does not belong in the Scale forum. If your referring to my statement that both could be contained in a craftsmenship forum, but didn't fit together under Scale. That wasn't a suggestion simply a Statement of fact.....Check your pink book
My personal preference would be for them to remain were they are currently, that is in with whatever impulse class the particular model happens to they fall.
Again we already have quite a few PMC and Plastic Model Conversion threads in the Micro, LPR and MPR forums, all that's needed to locate them is a little search time. Key words were spelling out Plastic Model Conversion for some of the listings.

 

[kjohnson]

The 1/18th X-1 is a static model sold by Pegasus. I have not seen this conversion on any of the forums yet. Its flown on a G76.

How much did the X-1 end up weighing? Would an F motor lift it?

kj

 

[rrobe99999]

The X-1 ended up at 2.4lbs. The NC weighed 1lb after I got done balancing it with lead. It went to maybe 600' on the G76. I don't know of any F motors that would work.

 

[kjohnson]

Wow! Did that put the cg in front of the wing? I've got one of the kits, so just getting some info before I do my cardboard cut out.
I was surprised that you got a 29mm mount in there, even at 1/18 scale.

kj

 

[rrobe99999]

The CG is about 3/4" behind the LE of the wing. I used a swing test to get it balanced. The tail is too skinny to fit a motor tube, so I hacked off 2" until I could get the 29mm tube to fit. I spent alot of time building up this transition with squadron putty and sanding it smooth. I cut off the NC just behind the cockpit since the kit has a very sturdy bulkhead to use for attachment. Good luck with your build.

 

[Micromeister]

The CG is about 3/4" behind the LE of the wing. I used a swing test to get it balanced. The tail is too skinny to fit a motor tube, so I hacked off 2" until I could get the 29mm tube to fit. I spent alot of time building up this transition with squadron putty and sanding it smooth. I cut off the NC just behind the cockpit since the kit has a very sturdy bulkhead to use for attachment. Good luck with your build.

Shame its so Heavy, sure is a great looking model. I've been considering a Bell X-1 in 1/32nd scale that should fly fine on D's with a bit of cobbling in the aft end.

Kevin:
rrobe99999 has the CG pretty much nailed. That's about the same general location (5/16"+/- behind the wing LE) on the 1/72 Micro powered Bell X-1 converted a couple years back. Found it with the same Cardboard cutout/ swing test procedure.

 

[ghrocketman]

The "C" in the acronym "PMC" has been redefined as meaning "Crashing" as about 50%+ of PMCs result in under-powered POWR-PRANGS that feature trash bag 'n broom recovery !

 

[Micromeister]

The "C" in the acronym "PMC" has been redefined as meaning "Crashing" as about 50%+ of PMCs result in under-powered POWR-PRANGS that feature trash bag 'n broom recovery !

I believe that comes from folks rushing 1st attempts at a given model or trying PMC for the first time in a contest environment.

To be sure I've seen a good number of PMC Crashing, It's why I have a PMC Hardhat LOL!

As with just about any of the Rocketry advanced subjects PMC takes some practice and work to accomplish consistant safe flying models. To be sure many are under powered, many by design as we don't want them going into orbit.

 

[rokitflite]

Plastic Model Conversion, aka "PMC", is a popular event and is an event at many NARAM's, including NARAM-53 in 2011.

There is a dedicated Forum for Scale, but not for PMC . . . Without it, people are forced to post messages in other TRF forums, making locating information difficult.

How many people would like to see a new Forum on TRF, dedicated to PMC ?

Who is the person to contact about getting that done, if there is sufficient interest ?

Dave

Dave,
Maybe you should post pictures of all of the PMCs you have built. That might help generate more interest for a separate forum... Just a thought.