Winston
Lorenzo von Matterhorn
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
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A definitely worst case analysis:
Autonomous Vehicles? STOP THAT ****
2018-09-08 by Karl Denninger in Technology , 76 references
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=234159
There is a bill pending in the Senate -- which has passed the House -- that basically eliminates compliance requirements (with federal motor vehicle standards) for a large number of driverless vehicles.
Nader is going ape**** over this, as you'd expect (being that his history goes back to the Corvair, if you remember.)
But so-called "driverless vehicles" are potentially much worse than the Corvair.
At least with a Corvair you had to be an idiot (in how you drove it) and in the case of the Pinto you had to be hit from behind.
In this case neither is true.
The "sales job" for driverless cars is that it will "eliminate" DUI, old-age-related and simple negligence (such as crashing while texting.) Maybe. But that's no panacea, and what Nader is screaming about is only a small part of the problem.
Note that there are reports that Toyota is working with Uber to bring these cars to reality. They're not the only one; the entire premise of Tesla rests there long-term, Lyft is active in the space and so are many others.
While I have no quarrel with the premise of driverless cars they must never be allowed to become mandatory either through market pressure or government mandate of any sort, no matter how it happens -- and this includes privileging them in any way whatsoever over a vehicle with a human operator nor allowing them to collect and transmit data as well. In other words they must not be reliant on "always-on" connections, or even connections to anything outside at all.
Without these protections driverless cars can quickly become effectively mandated even without the government doing so. Such an outcome can be mandated on a quite-effective basis by industries that collude to destroy owner-operated vehicles and since our government utterly refuses to bring charges under 15 USC Chapter 1 in the medical sector what makes you think they'd do so if car insurance carriers made owning a personally-operated vehicle a $20,000 a year mandatory insurance expense? This is in fact the goal of most of the firms working in this space, many of them openly admit it, and it must be stopped right here and now.
... as soon as any attempt to mandate or materially privilege "autonomous cars" happens all freedom of movement and in fact freedom to live -- that is simply to survive -- disappears permanently. This is the future you have if you don't make this clear to both lawmakers and industry:
Every movement you make in such a vehicle is and will be tracked and sent to one or more organizations who own all that data and may do with it whatever they wish. They will do exactly that; this is the business model -- to profile, sell and screw you using same. You have already consented to this business model with social media, "reward cards" in the grocery store and the simple act of using a credit or debit card for payment.
Every person will be subject to being blackballed and killed or rendered permanently destitute through the simple denial of ability to summon or take a ride anywhere. Since these are all "private businesses" (just like Twitter and Facebook claim to be today, along with Microsoft, Amazon, Google and more) you will have no right to obtain such a ride anywhere, no matter the reason or consequence if it's denied to you. This is what you get for allowing so-called "hate speech" -- mere speech -- to be squelched, as well as allowing companies like GoDaddy, Amazon and Microsoft to "blackball" customers of what is a utility service. Under this very same principle every autonomous vehicle provider can legally collude and blackball you, rendering you a prisoner in your own home. If you live in a place outside of walking distance to necessary goods and services this means you die.
Every trip you take in such a vehicle is subject to the whim in pricing or even possibility of denial of completion by said firms with no redress. Such a change can be made in the middle of a trip as well. Decide to go visit a family member 500 miles away, get halfway there and suddenly the price doubles or the company simply decides to blackball the destination entirely. What are you going to do about it? Walk? Go ahead and try to claim "contract" -- if you survive. Oh, such a thing would never happen when the vehicle is in the middle of a gang-banger friendly ghetto, right?
Any destination becomes completely unreachable by pure whim. The companies will claim this is for "safety", of course. Maybe true, maybe not, but not your choice any more -- their choice. Want to go to somewhere in a "less good" neighborhood? Nope, can't. Want to be picked up in same? Nope, can't. End of discussion.
At any moment during which the government so chooses it can stop or redirect to a place of its choosing any person or persons in all such vehicles, by force, with no ability to override same. Since such cars have no steering wheels or pedals -- no user-accessible controls whatsoever, whoever has control over the airwaves and software has absolute control over your destination, travel and even your life. In the event you, or everyone become "persona non grata" at some point to some official there will be no means of due process, no means of appeal and no means to stop being transported directly to a prison or, for that matter, off an embankment and into a 200' deep body of water.
When such vehicles are hacked via their OTA links said criminal hackers can do any or all of the above including intentionally crashing said vehicle into one or more others, killing the occupants or simply shutting down the entire thing, leaving you stuck wherever you are. If you're in Death Valley when that happens, well, you're dead. So sorry, so sad, and since it will be blamed on said hacker the company isn't responsible either, not that it matters when you're a corpse.
All such travel, along with exactly who is doing the traveling will be transmitted and monitored over the airwaves in real time. This is already happening with Tesla vehicles over links that we know are factually compromised and monitored in real time. The government will obtain access to this either by legislative fiat or by breaking the law exactly as the NSA has already done in myriad other cases, and exactly nobody in government or these firms will ever be prosecuted for same. This will be used to suppress or murder anyone they wish should such become part of what they want to do. Since they will control the data such decisions will be made at a time, place and in a manner of their choosing designed to prevent anyone from being able to prove that's what happened.
Freedom of association, movement and travel is one of the keys to a society that has some resemblance of freedom remaining. The ability to do so without being tracked inch-by-inch has already nearly been rendered impossible because our nation is collectively too ****ing stupid to demand that we own said data and we have the right to control it, never mind jailing the **********s in government and private businesses that can and do abuse same. Major corporations and governments are colluding to track and identify people in real time, all the time, reaching absolutely everyone -- not just those on a "100 most wanted" list as is often claimed.
Self-driving vehicles take that weaponized information content and add the ability to severely injure, economically destroy or kill any person or group of persons at whim to what we have already given up and there is exactly nothing that will be able to be done about it once it occurs because at that point you will lose the ability to move that is necessary to put a stop to it!
-----------
More potential issues:
Autonomous Vehicles? STOP THAT ****
2018-09-08 by Karl Denninger in Technology , 76 references
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=234159
There is a bill pending in the Senate -- which has passed the House -- that basically eliminates compliance requirements (with federal motor vehicle standards) for a large number of driverless vehicles.
Nader is going ape**** over this, as you'd expect (being that his history goes back to the Corvair, if you remember.)
But so-called "driverless vehicles" are potentially much worse than the Corvair.
At least with a Corvair you had to be an idiot (in how you drove it) and in the case of the Pinto you had to be hit from behind.
In this case neither is true.
The "sales job" for driverless cars is that it will "eliminate" DUI, old-age-related and simple negligence (such as crashing while texting.) Maybe. But that's no panacea, and what Nader is screaming about is only a small part of the problem.
Note that there are reports that Toyota is working with Uber to bring these cars to reality. They're not the only one; the entire premise of Tesla rests there long-term, Lyft is active in the space and so are many others.
While I have no quarrel with the premise of driverless cars they must never be allowed to become mandatory either through market pressure or government mandate of any sort, no matter how it happens -- and this includes privileging them in any way whatsoever over a vehicle with a human operator nor allowing them to collect and transmit data as well. In other words they must not be reliant on "always-on" connections, or even connections to anything outside at all.
Without these protections driverless cars can quickly become effectively mandated even without the government doing so. Such an outcome can be mandated on a quite-effective basis by industries that collude to destroy owner-operated vehicles and since our government utterly refuses to bring charges under 15 USC Chapter 1 in the medical sector what makes you think they'd do so if car insurance carriers made owning a personally-operated vehicle a $20,000 a year mandatory insurance expense? This is in fact the goal of most of the firms working in this space, many of them openly admit it, and it must be stopped right here and now.
... as soon as any attempt to mandate or materially privilege "autonomous cars" happens all freedom of movement and in fact freedom to live -- that is simply to survive -- disappears permanently. This is the future you have if you don't make this clear to both lawmakers and industry:
Every movement you make in such a vehicle is and will be tracked and sent to one or more organizations who own all that data and may do with it whatever they wish. They will do exactly that; this is the business model -- to profile, sell and screw you using same. You have already consented to this business model with social media, "reward cards" in the grocery store and the simple act of using a credit or debit card for payment.
Every person will be subject to being blackballed and killed or rendered permanently destitute through the simple denial of ability to summon or take a ride anywhere. Since these are all "private businesses" (just like Twitter and Facebook claim to be today, along with Microsoft, Amazon, Google and more) you will have no right to obtain such a ride anywhere, no matter the reason or consequence if it's denied to you. This is what you get for allowing so-called "hate speech" -- mere speech -- to be squelched, as well as allowing companies like GoDaddy, Amazon and Microsoft to "blackball" customers of what is a utility service. Under this very same principle every autonomous vehicle provider can legally collude and blackball you, rendering you a prisoner in your own home. If you live in a place outside of walking distance to necessary goods and services this means you die.
Every trip you take in such a vehicle is subject to the whim in pricing or even possibility of denial of completion by said firms with no redress. Such a change can be made in the middle of a trip as well. Decide to go visit a family member 500 miles away, get halfway there and suddenly the price doubles or the company simply decides to blackball the destination entirely. What are you going to do about it? Walk? Go ahead and try to claim "contract" -- if you survive. Oh, such a thing would never happen when the vehicle is in the middle of a gang-banger friendly ghetto, right?
Any destination becomes completely unreachable by pure whim. The companies will claim this is for "safety", of course. Maybe true, maybe not, but not your choice any more -- their choice. Want to go to somewhere in a "less good" neighborhood? Nope, can't. Want to be picked up in same? Nope, can't. End of discussion.
At any moment during which the government so chooses it can stop or redirect to a place of its choosing any person or persons in all such vehicles, by force, with no ability to override same. Since such cars have no steering wheels or pedals -- no user-accessible controls whatsoever, whoever has control over the airwaves and software has absolute control over your destination, travel and even your life. In the event you, or everyone become "persona non grata" at some point to some official there will be no means of due process, no means of appeal and no means to stop being transported directly to a prison or, for that matter, off an embankment and into a 200' deep body of water.
When such vehicles are hacked via their OTA links said criminal hackers can do any or all of the above including intentionally crashing said vehicle into one or more others, killing the occupants or simply shutting down the entire thing, leaving you stuck wherever you are. If you're in Death Valley when that happens, well, you're dead. So sorry, so sad, and since it will be blamed on said hacker the company isn't responsible either, not that it matters when you're a corpse.
All such travel, along with exactly who is doing the traveling will be transmitted and monitored over the airwaves in real time. This is already happening with Tesla vehicles over links that we know are factually compromised and monitored in real time. The government will obtain access to this either by legislative fiat or by breaking the law exactly as the NSA has already done in myriad other cases, and exactly nobody in government or these firms will ever be prosecuted for same. This will be used to suppress or murder anyone they wish should such become part of what they want to do. Since they will control the data such decisions will be made at a time, place and in a manner of their choosing designed to prevent anyone from being able to prove that's what happened.
Freedom of association, movement and travel is one of the keys to a society that has some resemblance of freedom remaining. The ability to do so without being tracked inch-by-inch has already nearly been rendered impossible because our nation is collectively too ****ing stupid to demand that we own said data and we have the right to control it, never mind jailing the **********s in government and private businesses that can and do abuse same. Major corporations and governments are colluding to track and identify people in real time, all the time, reaching absolutely everyone -- not just those on a "100 most wanted" list as is often claimed.
Self-driving vehicles take that weaponized information content and add the ability to severely injure, economically destroy or kill any person or group of persons at whim to what we have already given up and there is exactly nothing that will be able to be done about it once it occurs because at that point you will lose the ability to move that is necessary to put a stop to it!
-----------
More potential issues:
I think the point is to bring this tech to the point in which it’s safer than humans. What is better, human drivers killing 5 people or driverless cars killing 4? I feel like most people would vote for the former. Until we get this technology to the point where it’s damned near perfect (not just better than humans), it won’t be accepted.
