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For me, having just left the East Coast for rocketry heaven in Northern NV, I started carrying when my 82 year old neighbor was raped in her own home. With 2 kids and a wife in the home, that was it.

Unfortunately my jobs' have me working on a military base. But when I can I have something.

We live in a very scary world now and would rather be prepared.
 
we're saving up to cluster those.........

m-45g_quad_50_4_of_4.jpg

Well, I could haul out my original L3 project...I actually worked with them

ORD_Phalanx_CIWS_Firing_lg.jpg
 
Last night, I heard a bunch of gunfire, then some screaming and shouting. Being in the neighborhood I'm in, I waited a minute to see if it would continue before going up to investigate. It continued and escalated with fireworks popping and exploding, more random gunfire, and shouts of jubilation and ecstasy, for the Cleveland Cavaliers had won the 2016 championship breaking a 52 year drought.:bangpan::bangbang::headbang:
 
Angle the rod appropriately - load up a Crossfire (fast and pointy) and let her rip :)
 
:mad:I've carried since my 18th birthday, been a Gun Salesman and amateur Gunsmith since that day too.
Here in Vermont we don't even need permits.
I took my love of Firearms to the "Can I really use it if I need to?" level by joining the Army and invading Iraq, which whether you agree with it or not is consequential, as I don't care, but just needed to see if I could do it, and then hone my skill set.
I went there to serve my fellow countryman and exact vengeance against anyone who dares smite our American Ideals and belief in Freedom of choice, sure, but really I just wanted to prove myself on the field of battle and live up to the ethics and codes I'de learned in Boy Scouts.
It's horrifying shooting people, but I was just a Mechanic, so I ONLY shot in self defense.
I was not there hunting Humans.
I hate to even weigh in on this thread, but it keeps popping up, and since I can speak from experience, I can affirm to you that if I was a member of a club and someone showed up a shootin', I'de step right into the fray like I did in Iraq in 03-04' and instinct and training just takes over, even while the life you've lived flashes before your eyes.
Speed and violence of action wins the day.
I've had to answer to my CO when ever I struck per-emptively, so I can carry the weight of doing exactly what needs to be done.
"Rules Of Engagement" NEVER apply to the actions I took defending my fellow soldiers and myself.
It's pretty much "The Quick and the Dead" nowadays, as nearly anyone can get all sorts of virtual training fromn research on Youtube and the like.
I'm even using some of the materials I've learned to work with here to build myself firearms parts, but I'm a good guy and a defender of folks, so that's okay.
There won't even be any discussion of it, as I come here to escape all the killing people crap.
I do highly doubt that an "Active Terrorist" of any persuasion would choose a Rocketry related Event to attack, unless it was based on their hatred of our Freedom to conduct Rocketry, which actually does make our Hobby a valid Target.
Over there, they make Rockets too, but they are usually made of all sorts of improvised means, and the are certainly not weight or stability nazis, but I've had some pretty unique stuff fired at me.
They do the most diligent research.


Anyhow, I even have my Glock 19 on my hip as I type this, but I avoid Humans in real life as a general rule, so I hopefully will never have to poke ineffective holes in anyone ever again.

These Colors Don't Run!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bABYlINolY


Allah better be very "Akbar" too the fool that encounters someone like myself during his selfish idiocy, as I know that I will be johnny on the spot, when it comes to laying him or her low. I'll even run over a lady carrying a mock up baby if I deem it prudent, and worry about why she would try to walk infront of me in a big truck with her baby afterwards.
I don't tolerate violence against anyone well at all, but I can certainly see things exactly how they are, and defend in an appropriate manner.

It takes a lot to screw up a dedicated warrior with bullets, and I've also seen folks pulverized by incoming mortar rounds and 107mm rockets.
I always hoped that if I had to die, it was not by bullets.
Here in the States, 80 percent of gunshot wounds are survivable, so unless you are up against a Jihadi or a Soldier, if unarmed, you'de be ok just falling down and being quiet.
I always double checked to make sure everyone I thought was dead was actually dead, and usually found they were only grazed or pretending.
What really miffed me was our medics attending to people that just tried to kill me. :mad:
Just let that #$$Hole bleed out already!

What a sad thing that this Thread even exists.
 
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Take cover, identify the shooter, return fire. Yes I am permitted, and do carry most of the time.

It must be nice to be psychic, to know in advance that today you will certainly not need to burden yourself with a pound or two of weight because you know that today, there will be not terrorist, no insane killer, not even a rabid dog.

Wouldn't you feel silly, arriving at the Pearly Gates and explaining that "today I didn't carry. Sorry I wasn't able to save anybody.":duck:
 
Anyone who has ever looked closely at my vehicle and range gear knows exactly where I stand on the issue.

Endowment Life, Honorary Texan, licensed to operate an M60A1, and have used an M60 aka "The Pig" with bad intent. The Ma Deuce was just gravy.
 
1 - Seek adequate cover and or concealment. (that's just common sense)

2 - Draw and ready weapon. (why don't you carry?)

3 - Identify and Ventilate that POS. (instant justice with the taxpayer relief shot)

See, it's simple...

EASY-PEASY...:bangbang:
 
Jump in the nearest...

Recycling bin and...

Shelter in place...:cool:

At least they will know where to look for your body. Contrary to Hollywood, dumpsters, mailboxes and overturned desks make really lousy bullet stops.
 
1. Gather my kids close.
2. Hide or run, whatever seems safer.
3. Call 911 if I can.

I've done the cost/benefit analysis in my head, and "likelihood of an armed nutjob gunning me down" is always far less - for me, in my circumstances - than the likelihood of "tragic accident". I am 100% certain that there are those who carry at the launches I attend. I know how safe they are with their rocket preps, so I am reasonably confident that they are similarly careful with their firearms.

I know that the Venn diagram of "rocket enthusiasts" and "gun enthusiasts" is pretty close to a circle and I'm one of the few outliers. I'm not telling anyone else what to do. Personally, I choose not to carry.
 
Ok here goes... Here's my $0.02...
I've been in Canada for coming up on 10 years now. So much has changed since I left. I'm planning on moving back to Minnesota in the near future though. What else will change before then? Will I even recognize the place I left?

I don't want to get into Canadian politics, but at least most of you have the option of carrying. Even though I probably wouldn't carry, I would like to have the option should I need it. Doesn't look like that's going to change here anytime soon though.

I feel comfortable around those who carry, as I've known a few who do, or at least did at one point.
In the past I have owned firearms, fired them(at targets), and have been shot at unintentionally and intentionally. :y: Two times in my life that I have heard the whizz of bullets over my head. Something you don't forget.

Having children, it's a tough sell to even keep a weapon in the house though. It's that balance between perceived danger and external threat. For example, do I live in a neighborhood that's calm and quiet or am I in an area prone to break-ins? These are difficult choices that each individual has to make for themselves. But the choice needs to at least be there.

Before I forget, my answer to the OP is : Secure or shield children if present. Otherwise find cover, assess, and take action if possible. It's hard to say because without training, your thought process will be different when the sh** goes down versus sitting as a desk contemplating a hypothetical situation.
 
Stark Industries


should work on snakes , bears and mountain lions also


[video=youtube;YBC1Qob27sM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBC1Qob27sM[/video]
 
1. Gather my kids close.
2. Hide or run, whatever seems safer.
3. Call 911 if I can.

I've done the cost/benefit analysis in my head, and "likelihood of an armed nutjob gunning me down" is always far less - for me, in my circumstances - than the likelihood of "tragic accident". I am 100% certain that there are those who carry at the launches I attend. I know how safe they are with their rocket preps, so I am reasonably confident that they are similarly careful with their firearms.

I know that the Venn diagram of "rocket enthusiasts" and "gun enthusiasts" is pretty close to a circle and I'm one of the few outliers. I'm not telling anyone else what to do. Personally, I choose not to carry.

+1 (and add in friendly fire concerns in the highly unlikely event that I would have to deploy my military training)
 
This is extremely unlikely. Launches lack the element that mass shooter looks for (lots of people, limited space, and gun free zone). A mass shooter at a launch will last probably an hour at most, and this is accounting for his lifespan, not amount of time he shoots. Chances are anyone living in rural areas will have firearms (though it may take them a while to realize that it's a mass shooting and not someone plinking), but there are a lot of area to manuver and get out of the shooter's way.

That and I hope many rocketeers have CCW and are armed... But unlikely if he is from out of state. But there is absolutely no reason to think that it will happen, in fact you are far more likely to be hit by lightning, or a lawndarted rocket. Either possibility is extremely remote.
 
Madmen don't always limit themselves to "soft targets". This happened last year in Dallas:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/loc...-dallas-police-headquarters-prompts-chase.ece

And this happened in McKinney at a police station that my wife and I drove by everyday on our way to work. Fortunately, we had already passed by the police station before this lunatic started his rampage:

https://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/18/texas.shooting/

The point I was trying to illustrate is that these things can happen anywhere and are not limited to any one group of people. People go ape **** for a wide variety of reasons and it is good to know that there are people who are prepared to respond to such events at rocket launches, unlikely as that may be.
 
Recognizing that I'm in the minority here...

First of all, I agree that the chances of a mass shooter at a launch are extremely remote. Most of the nutjobs are looking for publicity, which means a populated area close to the news cameras. Even if 50 people got killed, there wouldn't be news cameras at our nearest significant launch site for more than a day--too far from civilization (you can put that in air quotes if you want).

More importantly, I think it's important to remember the practicalities and responsibility of gun ownership before buying. I suspect that most people here do that, given the care they take with their other fire-breathing monsters, but it needs to be said. The biggest downside for me is that I would almost certainly hesitate before shooting someone, regardless of what they are up to. That would put me squarely in the group of people who have a gun and have it used against them or family members. That group is an order of magnitude bigger than the group that successfully uses a gun to ward off an attack. The other issue, which is kind of related, is that the chances of friendly fire (both receiving and causing) are pretty high. When the Gabrielle Giffords open house was shot up, her staffer who wrestled the gun away from the nutjob was nearly shot by an armed customer coming out of the store and seeing a guy with a gun.

All that said, the active shooter training that we got in the office said that the best way to ensure survival was to run, hide, and fight, in that order. Fighting was a last resort. YMMV.
 
What's that smell...

It smells like a...

Summer's Eve...:cool:
 
The biggest downside for me is that I would almost certainly hesitate before shooting someone, regardless of what they are up to. That would put me squarely in the group of people who have a gun and have it used against them or family members. That group is an order of magnitude bigger than the group that successfully uses a gun to ward off an attack.

That reminds me of an old saw my dad had told me when he first introduced me to shooting:

1) If you are going to own a firearm and keep it to defend yourself, then you need to keep it loaded and ready to use. That means no trigger locks, or special lock boxes. If it's not ready to use, then you might as well not have it.
2) If you can live with #1, then the next step is to ask yourself if you are willing to shoot another person. Leave specific circumstances out, just "can you pull a weapon and shoot at another human being?"
3) If you pass 1 & 2 - the final question is - are you willing to kill someone. Don't fool yourself - you are not shooting to "wing" them or scare them. You want two rounds center mass and you want them dead in front of you.

Also, keep in mind that if you shoot and kill some one you will need to justify it. That is the law of the land.

And finally, kill someone in your house and you get to clean up the mess. The authorities may take the body away, but the mess is all yours. And it is freaking expensive to get cleaned up.

Me, I fail those tests so I will depend on local law enforcement.
 
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It saddens me that people can't have an honest discussion on guns without things reverting back to the standard republican and democratic talking points. There is a death problem in the United States, and a lot of those deaths involve a gun. The fact that you can't even have an unbiased discussion as to why makes me shake my head.

And for the record my grandfather was a marksman, and he taught me rifle safety and how to shoot in backwoods northern Canada. I'm not in favour of disarmament. I'm in favour of the acknowledgement of a problem, and a discussion that involves neither threats of full disarmament nor NRA talking points.
 
At least they will know where to look for your body. Contrary to Hollywood, dumpsters, mailboxes and overturned desks make really lousy bullet stops.

Add cars to the list. It amazes me how much ordinance a car door can stop on TV.

I am helping to restore a B-17. You look at the airplane skin and then you walk over to the (fake) .50 caliber machine guns and look at the (fake) ammunition. You know that skin ain't stopping one of those rounds. And modern cars aren't much different than the skin on those airplanes.

Honestly, the safest place on a B-17 from MG rounds and shrapnel is the ball turret. I've crawled into the one for our plane. Those suckers have really thick skin compared to the rest of the plane! Its cast aluminum and its round. Great for deflecting bullets. Supposedly, the lowest mortality position on the plane. Pilots are the highest mortality rate as enemy fighters targeted them when possible. Sorry for going off topic.
 

And yet on average 33,000 people are shot and killed each year in the US. Again, an honest discussion without NRA or Dem talking points please.

From the BBC:
[video=youtube;ZGjEt8Dw3iI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjEt8Dw3iI[/video]

Edit to add: these deaths don't happen in the rest of the industrialized world. Why do they happen here?

n-gundeaths-g-20160614-870x609.jpg
 
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And yet on average 33,000 people are shot and killed each year in the US. Again, an honest discussion without NRA or Dem talking points please.

From the BBC:
[video=youtube;ZGjEt8Dw3iI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjEt8Dw3iI[/video]

Edit to add: these deaths don't happen in the rest of the industrialized world. Why do they happen here?

n-gundeaths-g-20160614-870x609.jpg

You need to get your stat comparisons right. 2/3rds of gun deaths in the US are suicide. Another 3% are accidents. In that context the ~5,300 homicide deaths reported on the previous poster's chart in 6 mos. is in alignment with reality. Saying that, yes US death rates from guns are far higher than any other nation (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/...ath-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html). Also whether you would classify things such as drug abuse as suicide, is another whole discussion.
 
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Talon, what's the source on this? I ask for two reasons: #1 I'm very surprised anyone has good stats on total causes of death in a period ending 6 days ago. #2 the categories don't really match up nicely to the CDC numbers for 2014 here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm My eyebrows also go up a little that yours includes abortion, medical errors, tobacco, and obesity, but doesn't include suicide. Doesn't mean that your numbers aren't right or from a reputable source, but it raises questions.

The gun deaths that scare me are not the homicides. They're the accidents, particularly where kids are accidentally shooting people. I feel like the "right to keep and bear arms" has been completely divorced from the "well-regulated militia" if we can't even ask the question how to reduce accidental gun deaths.
 
You need to get your stat comparisons right. 2/3rds of gun deaths in the US are suicide. Another 3% are accidents. In that context the ~5,300 homicide deaths reported on the previous poster's chart in 6 mos. is in alignment with reality. Saying that, yes US death rates from guns are far higher than any other nation (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/...ath-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html). Also whether you would classify things such as drug abuse as suicide, is another whole discussion.

I agree with all that you've stated. Re suicide, suicide by gun works most of the time where suicide by most other means isn't nearly as effective. That means the effect of guns re suicide needs to be taken into account. Re the 3 percent of accidental deaths, in 2015 toddlers killed more Americans than terrorists did (confirmed by snopes), meaning where exactly is the risk? A while middle aged male is far more likely to eat his gun than stop a bad guy with it.
 
The point I was trying to illustrate is that these things can happen anywhere and are not limited to any one group of people...

THIS.... very this...

I have noticed as soon as people start talking about self defense and concealed carry, the topic always morphs into discussing "what if" scenarios. I carry since I plan for the worst and hope for the best knowing that I will never know when **** might hit the fan. When (read IF) things go wrong they go wrong QUICKLY. You will never know when something may go wrong, you can only train for this possibility as you will snap into fight or flight mode. Carrying a gun and taking an active interest in your personal security means you are willing to manipulate your environment to change the outcome. To those of you law abiding citizens willing to enter the fight, THANK YOU.

Words from someone who knows a hell of a lot about combat:
[video=youtube;x3YM3puIBBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3YM3puIBBs[/video]
 
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And yet on average 33,000 people are shot and killed each year in the US. Again, an honest discussion without NRA or Dem talking points please.

From the BBC:
[video=youtube;ZGjEt8Dw3iI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjEt8Dw3iI[/video]

Edit to add: these deaths don't happen in the rest of the industrialized world. Why do they happen here?

n-gundeaths-g-20160614-870x609.jpg

Careful.

I haven't gathered stats from non-biased sources so I dont have any to give. But the following reflects my frustration with this sort of thing.

"Once we understand these facts, and do not cling to bizarre xenophobic views about how everyone outside the "developed" world is too dysfunctional and/or subhuman (although few gun control advocates would ever admit to the thought) to bear comparison to the US, we immediately see that the mantra "worst in the developed world" offers an immensely skewed, unrealistic, and even bigoted view of the world and how countries compare to each other."

Source: https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries
 
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