Seeking Bazooka rocket measurements

[PeterAlway]

Working on the new edition of "Rockets of the World," I'm hoping to do a drawing of the famous WW II Bazooka rocket projectile. This would either be the M6A1 (live) or M7A1 (non-explosive training) version, which had identical external dimensions. I've seen the training version for sale on Ebay on several occasions, so I wonder if anyone here might have one, or know a collector or museum that might have on that they could measure. This is the rocket in question:



If anyone does have one, or has a lead on one, these are the dimensions I'm looking for:



Thanks for any help!

Peter Alway

 

[blackbrandt]

Sorry, can't help you on the measurements, but I can't help but say how I was about to comment "Oh great,,, another nutcase on here trying to build a bazooka...". Then I looked at the name and realized my SNAFU in the nick of time.

 

[TopRamen]

Sorry, can't help you on the measurements, but I can't help but say how I was about to comment "Oh great,,, another nutcase on here trying to build a bazooka...". Then I looked at the name and realized my SNAFU in the nick of time.

I thought the same, and even typed a long winded post once I noticed who was asking, but my post had too much info, so I thought better of it and will likely respond in a PM when I dig out the actual drawings and measurements.
Those rockets are not meant to launch from rod or rail.
There's actually a link somewhere in the Scale section which goes to a site that has a perfect 2 axis drawing, but it also links you to a lot of stuff about ordnance, so I'll not post it here.

 

[rharshberger]

How about contacting the US Army Ordinance Museum at Ft. Lee, VA their historians might be willing to get you the measurements? IIRC from a History Channel episode on weapons they have a rocket on display from a Gen1 Bazooka.

I also found a link to a militarium forum that has some interesting information, one poster's picts are of a M7 rocket, you may be able to get into contact with that individual through the forum.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41276-bazooka-m1/

 

[Pem Tech]

Peter,
Here are a few hasty reference shots. This particular training round was purchased at an auction when I was 11 or 12. Yeah, I've had it a LONG time.
I'll dig out the micrometer and try to get you more precise measurements when possible.

 

[Pem Tech]

 

[K'Tesh]

Further proof that the guys and gals here are a fountain of obscure knowledge!

You ask, and less than 48 hours later you've got pictures with rulers and promises of measurements filling your need.

I might have to see if I can do an .ork of one of these someday (after I land a new job/get my primary computer up and running).

 

[PeterAlway]

Sorry, can't help you on the measurements, but I can't help but say how I was about to comment "Oh great,,, another nutcase on here trying to build a bazooka...". Then I looked at the name and realized my SNAFU in the nick of time.

I hadn't realized that was an issue on the forum--I just read the scale department with any regularity.

Peter

 

[PeterAlway]

I thought the same, and even typed a long winded post once I noticed who was asking, but my post had too much info, so I thought better of it and will likely respond in a PM when I dig out the actual drawings and measurements.
Those rockets are not meant to launch from rod or rail.
There's actually a link somewhere in the Scale section which goes to a site that has a perfect 2 axis drawing, but it also links you to a lot of stuff about ordnance, so I'll not post it here.

Thanks. I figure a modeler could launch from a tower, or just add a launch lug to a fin's outer edge.

I found the drawing in my post in a manual, which seems to be well-proportioned, but I wand either design drawings or measurements from an artifact--which look likely from a reply lower in the page.

Peter Alway

 

[PeterAlway]

How about contacting the US Army Ordinance Museum at Ft. Lee, VA their historians might be willing to get you the measurements? IIRC from a History Channel episode on weapons they have a rocket on display from a Gen1 Bazooka.

I also found a link to a militarium forum that has some interesting information, one poster's picts are of a M7 rocket, you may be able to get into contact with that individual through the forum.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41276-bazooka-m1/

Thank you, but it looks like Pem Tech has one handy to measure.

Peter Alway

 

[PeterAlway]

Peter,
Here are a few hasty reference shots. This particular training round was purchased at an auction when I was 11 or 12. Yeah, I've had it a LONG time.
I'll dig out the micrometer and try to get you more precise measurements when possible.

AHA! This exactly what I was hoping someone would find! Thank you for posting this! I confess that I'm also relieved to see that cylindrical dummy weight in the nosecone, insuring that this is a non-explosive training round (M7A1).

The photographs are useful reference, but I really need actual measurements by a human being with the artifact and ruler in-hand. I can't quite get exact numbers from the photos. I should also mentioned that the manual I downloaded has the dimensions of several parts, but the numbers include threads and overlaps--they don't show the lengths as the rocket is assembled.

My request would be that you can lay the assembled rocket down on a table or counter with the nose tip touching a wall or nice square block, with the rocket secured perpendicular to the wall. Then you could measure from the wall. If you use both inches and metric units, it would be a nice double-check.

Don't worry that the nose tip is dented. Just measure from the tip that exists now, and I can figure out a correction to add.

If some of those dimensions are easier to measure point-to-point instead of from the nose tip just indicate the letter for each end of the measurement--say N-J for the length of the outer edge of the fin, or L-K for the length of the narrow part of the nozzle.

Thank you very much for these photos, and especially for your offer to make more precise measurements.

You can post results here, or email me at petealway (at) aol (dot) com

Peter Alway

 

[PeterAlway]

Further proof that the guys and gals here are a fountain of obscure knowledge!

You ask, and less than 48 hours later you've got pictures with rulers and promises of measurements filling your need.

I might have to see if I can do an .ork of one of these someday (after I land a new job/get my primary computer up and running).

I'm pretty impressed, myself!

Peter Alway

 

[Pem Tech]

AHA! This exactly what I was hoping someone would find! Thank you for posting this! I confess that I'm also relieved to see that cylindrical dummy weight in the nosecone, insuring that this is a non-explosive training round (M7A1).

The photographs are useful reference, but I really need actual measurements by a human being with the artifact and ruler in-hand. I can't quite get exact numbers from the photos. I should also mentioned that the manual I downloaded has the dimensions of several parts, but the numbers include threads and overlaps--they don't show the lengths as the rocket is assembled.

My request would be that you can lay the assembled rocket down on a table or counter with the nose tip touching a wall or nice square block, with the rocket secured perpendicular to the wall. Then you could measure from the wall. If you use both inches and metric units, it would be a nice double-check.

Don't worry that the nose tip is dented. Just measure from the tip that exists now, and I can figure out a correction to add.

If some of those dimensions are easier to measure point-to-point instead of from the nose tip just indicate the letter for each end of the measurement--say N-J for the length of the outer edge of the fin, or L-K for the length of the narrow part of the nozzle.

Thank you very much for these photos, and especially for your offer to make more precise measurements.

You can post results here, or email me at petealway (at) aol (dot) com

Peter Alway

Peter,
It will be a few days before I can get the measurements you need. You know, work, kids, soccer, girls scouts (my little green uniform is tighter than I remember), and so forth, but I will get them to you. Yes, it is the M7A1, keeping 70 year old live ordinance around just isn't safe with little ones in the house. Broke my heart when I had to dispose of the 30mm cannon round.
Anyway, it will be an honor to help with the ROTW update. I so admire your work.

 

[PeterAlway]

Peter,
It will be a few days before I can get the measurements you need. You know, work, kids, soccer, girls scouts (my little green uniform is tighter than I remember), and so forth, but I will get them to you. Yes, it is the M7A1, keeping 70 year old live ordinance around just isn't safe with little ones in the house. Broke my heart when I had to dispose of the 30mm cannon round.
Anyway, it will be an honor to help with the ROTW update. I so admire your work.

Thanks! I'll look forward to it when you're ready. By the way, someone on Ye Olde Rocketry Forum had a casting of just the nose of one, and got the measurements I need to correct for the nose tip dent on yours. So this will be perfect. Thank you!

Peter Alway

 

[Pem Tech]

Peter,
This is what I have so far. After my daughter's soccer game I'll get the rest.

 

[ksaves2]

Ambitious project. How can one launch it? A tower? Looks like it would need a funky stand-off otherwise. Kurt

 

[dhbarr]

Ambitious project. How can one launch it? A tower? Looks like it would need a funky stand-off otherwise. Kurt

I figure a modeler could launch from a tower, or just add a launch lug to a fin's outer edge.

 

[rharshberger]

Ambitious project. How can one launch it? A tower? Looks like it would need a funky stand-off otherwise. Kurt

How about a vertical tube lauch......

 

[Pem Tech]

How about a vertical tube lauch......

Is that kosher under NAR rules?

 

[PeterAlway]

Peter,
This is what I have so far. After my daughter's soccer game I'll get the rest.
View attachment 303371

Thank you! I'll be checking in for the rest tomorrow!

Peter Alway

 

[PeterAlway]

Is that kosher under NAR rules?

A vertical tube launch would be absolutely kosher under the NAR safety code. Though personally, I'd probably put a launch lug along a fin tip with a little wire loop on the nosecone.

My personal goal, however, is just to draw the thing, and use it to round out the the story of US rocketry during WWII, covering Section H (Clarence Hickman's work, including the bazooka), the CIT work for the Navy, and the origins of the JPL. I'll let someone else build and fly the models.

Peter Alway

 

[dhbarr]

A vertical tube launch would be absolutely kosher under the NAR safety code. Though personally, I'd probably put a launch lug along a fin tip with a little wire loop on the nosecone.

My personal goal, however, is just to draw the thing, and use it to round out the the story of US rocketry during WWII, covering Section H (Clarence Hickman's work, including the bazooka), the CIT work for the Navy, and the origins of the JPL. I'll let someone else build and fly the models.

Peter Alway

Is the plan to issue a new edition containing all previous supplements plus the new work, or another supplement?

Are you going to take all my money now ( preorder ) or later ( launch date? )

 

[rharshberger]

Is that kosher under NAR rules?

As long as its stable and not more than 30 degrees from vertical, really not much different than using a tower. Some super scale modellers have made scale Patriot missle boxes and launched from those.

 

[Pem Tech]

Is the plan to issue a new edition containing all previous supplements plus the new work, or another supplement?

Are you going to take all my money now ( preorder ) or later ( launch date? )

What he said!!!!

 

[Pem Tech]

Peter,
Here is where it gets a little complicated, or maybe I'm just over analyzing the matter. The measurements I was getting off the round didn't seem to match what was on the schematic. So, here is a detail photograph with measurements from the the fore lip of the rear shoulder to the end of the nozzle. Hope it makes sense. I'll get you the final few measurements in a bit.


Also, disregard measurement "J" on the schematic, seems I was off just a hair.

 

[Pem Tech]

And the final overall measurements.
Glad I could help out the famous Peter Alway!

 

[Woody's Workshop]

What about "Printed" stand off, fly away rail guides?
Someone surely can do that.
Since we now have the required dimensions courtesy of Pem-tech,
I would invest in a pair of fly away rail guides because this looks like a very interesting build challenge.

 

[PeterAlway]

Is the plan to issue a new edition containing all previous supplements plus the new work, or another supplement?

Are you going to take all my money now ( preorder ) or later ( launch date? )

The plan is option 1. With a lot of corrections, too. I am hoping for a launch date next summer--NARAM ideally, but there are delays, so that might not happen. If there are advance orders, it won't be until the thing is finished and ready to print. I'm hoping for a *really* thick book.

Peter Alway

 

[PeterAlway]

Peter,
Here is where it gets a little complicated, or maybe I'm just over analyzing the matter. The measurements I was getting off the round didn't seem to match what was on the schematic. So, here is a detail photograph with measurements from the the fore lip of the rear shoulder to the end of the nozzle. Hope it makes sense. I'll get you the final few measurements in a bit.


Also, disregard measurement "J" on the schematic, seems I was off just a hair.

Please, overanalyse! I need all the help I can get!

Thank you for all three of your replies--off to the drawing computer!

Peter Alway

 

[dhbarr]

I'm hoping for a *really* thick book.

/me tries to stay cool

Me too!