Second CATO w/Cesaroni J595 6XL 38mm

[crossfire]

We recovered 4 grains. Two were not found, including the top one with the pellet.

I'm beginning to think I should return to the launch site and look further for the missing components (2 grains, retainer, ring, cap).

Was this Cato with new case?

 

[billdz]

The threads don't look OK to me. I can't enlarge the image, but it looks like the casing might be belled out at the threads.
So, a question. When CTI replaced the motor, did they replace both the reload kit and the aluminum casing, or just the reload kit? Was the second launch attempt made with a brand-new casing, or with an older casing?

CTI only provided a new reload, not a new casing. This is the same casing as last time.

You may be correct about the casing being belled out at the threads, but I'm not seeing it, although my eyes are not the best. Here's an end view. I've inserted a couple of closures and they seem to screw in properly.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

duplicate

 

[tbonerocketeer]

CTI only provided a new reload, not a new casing. This is the same casing as last time.

You may be correct about the casing being belled out at the threads, but I'm not seeing it, although my eyes are not the best. Here's an end view. I've inserted a couple of closures and they seem to screw in properly.
View attachment 382147

They should have provided both, at least they do for any of my warranty claims

 

[cerving]

CTI only provided a new reload, not a new casing. This is the same casing as last time.

You may be correct about the casing being belled out at the threads, but I'm not seeing it, although my eyes are not the best. Here's an end view. I've inserted a couple of closures and they seem to screw in properly.
View attachment 382147

If the rear closure is belled out, you will still be able to thread a nozzle in... in fact, it may be easier. Hold a straightedge across the casing to see if it's belled or not. Since it's the same case, my gut feeling is that the case was damaged with your first CATO... it's too bad that CTI didn't replace it as well.

 

[SierraDrinker]

If the rear closure is belled out, you will still be able to thread a nozzle in... in fact, it may be easier. Hold a straightedge across the casing to see if it's belled or not. Since it's the same case, my gut feeling is that the case was damaged with your first CATO... it's too bad that CTI didn't replace it as well.

This sounds like a similar CATO I had last year with a J357 blue streak. The grains burned about half way before an over-pressure shot the engine out the back of the casing. The damage to the casing wasn't visible, but I was unable to screw in another motor. I submitted a warranty claim through Sunward Hobbies in November and I just received the replacement casing, motor, and spacers. However, I'm really hesitant to use the new motor given what I'm seeing on the boards about CTI CATOs.

 

[Buckeye]

It’s on CTI website & as far as I know all CTI dealers have been notified (at least my local CTI dealer is aware of it). Have also seen it on Facebook.

So, where are the instructions for this magic in-field pellet fix? CTI says "A copy of the in-field modification instructions can be found on our website." Can't find it. The logical place would be right next to the bulletin, but instead there is meaningless youtube video of static test firing.

 

[Dipstick]

Here is a PDF. I didn't see it on CTI's website either...odd.

 

[Dipstick]

Don't know if it's me, but it seems to be weighted towards blue motors too.

 

[jahall4]

So, where are the instructions for this magic in-field pellet fix? CTI says "A copy of the in-field modification instructions can be found on our website." Can't find it. The logical place would be right next to the bulletin, but instead there is meaningless youtube video of static test firing.

https://www.pro38.com/news.php

First on the list.

 

[Steve Shannon]

https://www.pro38.com/news.php

First on the list.

That is the bulletin acknowledging the problem, not the instructions for trimming the pellet.

 

[jahall4]

That is the bulletin acknowledging the problem, not the instructions for trimming the pellet.

My link was not to the bulletin but to that page containing the bulletin and video. The link to the modification instructions are in the notes of the video which links back to the CTI website. I suspect CTI simply forgot to add the link to the instruction to the bulletin page.

 

[Steve Shannon]

My link was not to the bulletin but to that page containing the bulletin and video. The link to the modification instructions are in the notes of the video which links back to the CTI website. I suspect CTI simply forgot to add the link to the instruction to the bulletin page.

Which is exactly what the complaint was.

 

[jahall4]

Which is exactly what the complaint was.

How is it not on their website?... Instructions can be found at; www.pro38.com/pdfs/Pro38_Pellet_Modfications_v1.2.pdf. Granted you need to look at the video.

 

[Steve Shannon]

How is it not on their website?... Instructions can be found at; www.pro38.com/pdfs/Pro38_Pellet_Modfications_v1.2.pdf. Granted you need to look at the video.

That’s okay. The rest of us understand the problem.

 

[jahall4]

That’s okay. The rest of us understand the problem.

We certainly do, but what do you think it is?

Note that a search of the CTI site (site:www.pro38.com pellet modification instructions) results in the instructions being the #1 hit.

 

[Steve Shannon]

We certainly do, but what do you think it is?

Note that a search of the CTI site (site:www.pro38.com pellet modification instructions) results in the instructions being the #1 hit.

It should not require a search of the entire site or that a person watch the video. The document describing the modification should be listed alongside the bulletin and possibly linked within the bulletin.
It should also be listed among the downloads on the download page.

 

[JohnCoker]

I'm sorry to hear it!

Two other failures have already been reported for that motor, but please report yours as well:
motorcato.org

 

[jahall4]

It should not require a search of the entire site or that a person watch the video. The document describing the modification should be listed alongside the bulletin and possibly linked within the bulletin.
It should also be listed among the downloads on the download page.

I wholeheartedly agree it should not require it, If we had a better MESS and communication between manfs. and flyers it wouldn't. However, I'm at a loss to understand why you would defend not doing it to the point, of chastising me for exercising due diligence and then taking the time to help another flyer find it. It takes just seconds to search a website and the video containing the link to the instructions was posted with the bulletin on the page CTI use to communicate their "news".

 

[Banzai88]

Yet despite all of CTI's due diligence, word isn't getting out and it's a circuitous route to actually find the instructions once you hear about the latest issue.

Of my whole club(20 some odd active L1-L3 flyers), I'm the only one that's heard of the bulletin. At today's launch I was too late to prevent a CATO in a young lady's 1G, but demonstrated the bulletin to save possible issues with another guy's 2G.

While I'm an admitted CTI fanboy, it's getting hard to care about defending them when they can't or won't help themselves.

 

[crossfire]

Getting the word out has been a problem for many years when it comes to manufacture issues. I seen the same thing happen at Bong sometime back flyer was unaware of a reload issue. I guess some how the dealers need to get the word when a problem comes up. Maybe all TRA and NAR sections need to get a message about a motor problem.

 

[jd2cylman]

There was a G78 (I believe) CATO at mini MWP on Sunday. The flier was unaware of the bulletin. His rocket was rekitted...

 

[jahall4]

There was a G78 (I believe) CATO at mini MWP on Sunday. The flier was unaware of the bulletin. His rocket was rekitted...

Once MC2 Starts flying again I'm hopeful a checklist will help the RSO/LCO catch these type of issue. Unfortunately, it looks like we'll have to compile and maintain it ourselves, even though given the safety facet; it's something that the assocs should provide.

 

[jd2cylman]

Unfortunately, until it happened, I had completely forgotten about the bulletin also, which as you say, a checklist would have helped.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Once MC2 Starts flying again I'm hopeful a checklist will help the RSO/LCO catch these type of issue. Unfortunately, it looks like we'll have to compile and maintain it ourselves, even though given the safety facet; it's something that the assocs should provide.

I agree, a list of issues with motors would be great. Would you be interested in compiling one?
Unfortunately the manufacturers don’t always notify the associations. I don’t think we ever were notified of this even though we notified CTI of the uptick in catos. We have asked for such notifications. They notify their dealers but not the TMT, S&T, or MC2.

 

[jahall4]

I agree, a list of issues with motors would be great. Would you be interested in compiling one?
Unfortunately the manufacturers don’t always notify the associations. I don’t think we ever were notified of this even though we notified CTI of the uptick in catos. We have asked for such notifications. They notify their dealers but not the TMT, S&T, or MC2.

We'll you know Steve how about not certifying any more motors until you get a commitment from the Manf? Or how about the assocs having a joint team, that IMO could be a small as a one w/backup, tasked with compiling a list that could then be used by a clubs?

 

[Steve Shannon]

We'll you know Steve how about not certifying any more motors until you get a commitment from the Manf? Or how about the assocs having a joint team, that IMO could be a small as a one w/backup, tasked with compiling a list that could then be used by a clubs?

All of the committees we have are volunteers. Are you willing to help rather than just pointing out what other people should volunteer to do?

 

[Banzai88]

We'll you know Steve how about not certifying any more motors until you get a commitment from the Manf? Or how about the assocs having a joint team, that IMO could be a small as a one w/backup, tasked with compiling a list that could then be used by a clubs?

I thought that we were in a cooperative relationship with the manufacturers? Whatever happened to civil discourse? Perhaps they should be involved in the solution, not dictated to?

Why make it adversarial?

 

[Steve Shannon]

I thought that we were in a cooperative relationship with the manufacturers? Whatever happened to civil discourse? Perhaps they should be involved in the solution, not dictated to?

Why make it adversarial?

That’s exactly right. Blocking all certifications simply creates animosity. In April we had a great sit-down meeting with all of the manufacturers to discuss just such things. It just takes time to implement some changes.

 

[Steve Shannon]

And it’s not as simple as refusing to certify CTI motors anyway. Most CTI motors are certified by CAR MC2, not TMT or NAR S&T.
There are four major solid motor manufacturers right now. While it would be nice to have a single list to give all RSOs, flyers still have the ultimate responsibility to visit the manufacturers’ pages to look up the motors they fly.
Last night or early this morning I put a link to the bulletin, the video, and the pellet trimming procedure in the Tripoli members forum and Prefect forum to try to get the information out.