3D Printing Secant Ogive Nose Cone?

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Arsenal78

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I'm working on a half scale Arcturus rocket and the ARC nose cones are secant ogives and not tangent ogive. I'm using FreeCAD to try and make a nose cone in their workbench but from what I've gathered on the difference between the two ogives, the one in FreeCAD is a tangent ogive. Would someone be willing to create a 4:1 secant ogive nose for a LOC 2.26" body tube? ID: 2.14, OD 2.26, nose length outside of body tube is 9.04 with a shoulder length of 1.8.

I have a 2.2" LOC nose cone but when I compare the shape to my full size ARCAS, it's not as angled.

Haack nose cone profile looks very close to a secant.
 
Besides length and diameter, secant ogive has an additional independent parameter that basically varies it from approaching conical to tangent ogive to bulging like an Honest John to approaching spherical. Do you, or anybody, know what it would be for this rocket? It'd be presented as α (alpha) or possibly either ρ (rho); the two can be derived from each other for a given length and diameter. I looked around a bit and couldn't determine a value for the Arcturus. Modeling of the presumed same nosecone for the ARCAS seems to be a bit mixed, I haven't found a clear value. I think it's 0.5 <= α <= 0.8, and I'm guessing 0.75 (keeping w/ the 4:1 ratio) but haven't closely compared pictures. You've piqued my interest though so I'll poke around more if answers aren't forthcoming.
 
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I decided to use a haack nose cone shape as it's close enough to the real one that I can deal with it.
 
I'm working on a half scale Arcturus rocket and the ARC nose cones are secant ogives and not tangent ogive. I'm using FreeCAD to try and make a nose cone in their workbench but from what I've gathered on the difference between the two ogives, the one in FreeCAD is a tangent ogive.

I download FreeCAD because I discovered the rocket workbench. While it is a neat tool in theory, I found it far too limited in practice; you can't make blunted shapes. The database is also full of wildly incorrect shapes; I don't think I found a single accurate cone.

So, I took on the task of learning FreeCAD instead. I have since replicated a few nose cones, but haven't quite got them to the point I feel comfortable publishing STL files.

I took my 55AC and scaled up the dimensions. The key to making a secant shape is to anchor your arc centerpoint below the axis of your shoulder. How that translates to alpha values @tjkopena referenced, I'm not sure. This model anchors the center point 2" below the shoulder. If you want to make it "more" or "less" secant, you can increase or decrease that constraint in the first sketch. I've made the walls approx. 1mm thick, so you may need to mod this file some if that is too thick or thin. You will also need a printer with a tall z-axis, unless you split the model.

Also, you'll have to change the file type from "txt" to "FCStd" to open it in FreeCAD.
 

Attachments

  • 2.26_Arcas_NC.txt
    34.1 KB · Views: 10
My nosecone program in which SCAD does all that, but is not what you asked for..... If you want to get a specific exact shape in CAD you might need to create a spreadsheet to generate the points for the specific formula and maybe drop the points in as a bezier curve. Just a guess there.
Here's your nosecone dimensions with Von Karmen. Von Karmen kind of gives a squished nose.
1644019884062.png

Here it is with a higher factor parabolic. Not sure what to call it but I think it's closer to the photos I found of the real thing. Pointier....
1644019986783.png

The advantage of this is, it's set up specifically for nosecones, with the specific formulas in there. Additionally in this version the formulas are not limited to the specific power factors for the specific shapes. You can go WAAAAY beyond that and create a funky nosecone, like Thunderbird 1, if you want to.
Let me know if you want the nose cone generator. :)
Norm
 
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My nosecone program in which SCAD does all that, but is not what you asked for..... If you want to get a specific exact shape in CAD you might need to create a spreadsheet to generate the points for the specific formula and maybe drop the points in as a bezier curve. Just a guess there.
Here's your nosecone dimensions with Von Karmen. Von Karmen kind of gives a squished nose.
View attachment 503120

Here it is with a higher factor parabolic. Not sure what to call it but I think it's closer to the photos I found of the real thing. Pointier....
View attachment 503122


Let me know if you want the nose cone generator. :)
Norm
Is your nose cone generator available somewhere, Thingiverse or TRF maybe?
 
I download FreeCAD because I discovered the rocket workbench. While it is a neat tool in theory, I found it far too limited in practice; you can't make blunted shapes. The database is also full of wildly incorrect shapes; I don't think I found a single accurate cone.

FreeCAD is simultaneously an exemplar of both the good and bad of open source. It's really very impressive for a bunch of volunteers to implement and offer up for free a full, functional, useful parametric 3D CAD system. I personally put CAD among the most complex classes of software to develop, because it runs the full gamut: Serious math, computation & optimization, large data, complex feature sets, deep UI, complex 3D user interactions, etc..

On the other hand, I find it terribly difficult to work around FreeCAD's user interface. Granted, I'm not invested in using it day in & day out by any means. But even trivial tasks are difficult, and I often wind up at some dead end whereby my best recourse is to simply restart the app, because I can't figure out how to get back where I was---and that's just talking about navigating & manipulating the UI, setting aside entirely actual model manipulations.

But no doubt it's a very useful tool to know.


So, I took on the task of learning FreeCAD instead. I have since replicated a few nose cones, but haven't quite got them to the point I feel comfortable publishing STL files.

This looks good to me. For whatever my opinion's worth I think the CAD modeling here is at least on par with all the various nosecone STLs and such floating around, so don't hold back.


I took my 55AC and scaled up the dimensions. The key to making a secant shape is to anchor your arc centerpoint below the axis of your shoulder. How that translates to alpha values @tjkopena referenced, I'm not sure. This model anchors the center point 2" below the shoulder. If you want to make it "more" or "less" secant, you can increase or decrease that constraint in the first sketch.

That is basically the action of the parameters I mentioned, their visual geometric interpretation.

Say the radius of the circle defining an ogive is ρ. For a tangent ogive with length l and radius r, ρ = (l^2 + r^2)/2r and the circle will have its center aligned with the rear line of the ogive. A secant ogive will have a radius ρ greater or lesser than that and the center correspondingly below or ahead of the rear line of the ogive. Define the tangent ogive radius for a given l, r as ρ′, then you can define a shape parameter α such that the ogive radius ρ = ρ′/α. At α=1 the shape will then be a tangent ogive. Under 1it's a sharp secant of the form discussed here, becoming conical as α approaches zero. Over 1 it's a bulging secant, becoming increasingly spherical as α approaches 2*l/d. E.g., I vaguely recall an Honest John nosecone being in part a secant ogive with α = ~1.78 (IIRC there's also a conic transition below the ogive). For the nosecone in discussion, where l = 4d, α = 8 produces a sphere.

Given the documented 4:1 fineness ratio, I believe the α that models the Arcturus secant ogive is 0.7. There is also a small spherical blunting. Here's a comparison of such a nosecone (yellow, modeled in OpenSCAD) against the best scale drawings I've found (black outline), published in the Jan/Feb 2019 Total Impulse newsletter of the Jackson Model Rocket Club (JMRC) by Roy Houchin II and Chris Timm:

comparison.png
Looks like a good match to me.

An STL of that model is attached, a half scale Arcturus nosecone according to the OP's specs based around LOC 2.26 tube. It has 1.6mm walls (approximately, the shape of the cavity permits more at the shoulder junction), somewhat arbitrarily picked as that's 4 perimeters using a 0.4mm nozzle. Happy to generate versions w/ other wall dimensions, anchors, etc..
 

Attachments

  • nc-2.26.stl
    3.2 MB · Views: 6
I download FreeCAD because I discovered the rocket workbench. While it is a neat tool in theory, I found it far too limited in practice; you can't make blunted shapes. The database is also full of wildly incorrect shapes; I don't think I found a single accurate cone.
The Rocket Workbench has included blunted shapes for a while now. If there's a shape that it doesn't make, let me know and I'll see if I can add it. In fact, the blunted shapes were added by request. Secant ogives are in there too. The tool is evolving in many directions and while I try to anticipate use cases feedback is really what drives development.

The database is a separate problem. I use the same one as the OpenRocket project, and unfortunately the data is limited. A nose cone will be described as ogive when it is in fact a blunted ogive or even a power series. Manufacturers aren't always forthcoming, and the OpenRocket needs are different from the CAD needs. We've both recently switched to a curated database by Dave Cook (https://github.com/dbcook/openrocket-database) that is attempting to ensure the information comes from verifiable sources but it will almost always be less than what you want. Your best bet is to pick the nose you want, and then adjust the shape to what you desire. You'll at least have accurate dimensions
 
ARCTURUS cone profile.
 

Attachments

  • Arcturus Cone drawing.pdf
    107.6 KB · Views: 0
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