Sea Tiger

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Bruiser, Jul 12, 2019.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Jul 19, 2019 #31

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Temp is 82
    Humidity is 38
    Sprayed inside connex with door open
    sprayed a light coat followed almost immediately by flow coat
    can about 12 inches from rocket

    It's the same technique I've been using. Up until now my only problems with the paint is that I would get some sand blown on it or a bug would land on it and the paint takes so long to dry something like that is a big set back.

    Fully Painted 1.jpg Defender Blue w Black Nose.jpg
    Nike Heat Assembled.jpg
    Tempest Sustainer Red and White and Black.jpg

    Oh, you might be wondering why I don't see this while it's going on? Well my glasses are bi-focals and they are for mid and long distances. To read a book I have to take off my glasses. The distance I am from the rocket when spraying is not good for me to see details. If the model was another foot away I'd see a lot better

    -Bob
     
  2. Jul 19, 2019 #32

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    When in doubt, add more rocket TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    698
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Hmm. The source of your problem is not obvious to me here, but such paint issues can usually be traced back to some sort of application error.

    Just for curiosity: what is a "connex", and when you say "sprayed a light coat followed almost immediately by flow coat" how soon is "almost immediately"?

    Again, I have no immediate idea what the problem is here.
     
  3. Jul 19, 2019 #33

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Sorry, I had 2 n's but it should have been just one. Anyway, a conex is a large metal box normally used for shipping but now people are using them for sheds and even building houses out of them.

    Almost immediately means spraying a light coat starting at one end and working to the other while rotating the rocket for coverage. Once done a quick look to see if it has flashed, i.e. looks dull. Once it looks dull which is ussauly very quick because it's only a dusting, then a full coat.

    -Bob
     
  4. Jul 19, 2019 #34

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    478
  5. Jul 19, 2019 #35

    Dugway

    Dugway

    Dugway

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2015
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    15
    I have also completely stopped using Rustoleum 2x (from Home Depot) for the exact same reason. I used to love it but recently I get dry spray WAY too often. I have switched to Krylon Colormaxx (from Lowes) and haven't had a bad coat yet. Just got done painting my Sirius Saturn V and the Krylon went down very well.
     
  6. Jul 19, 2019 #36

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    When in doubt, add more rocket TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,801
    Likes Received:
    698
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    I must be living a charmed life, haven't had a single bad Rusto 2x experience yet. My biggest beef is the long cure time.
     
  7. Jul 19, 2019 #37

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    Did you tape off the rudder when you painted the rest of the rocket? Meaning when you painted the rudder....did you paint over primer or paint? This looks like an undercoat issue to me. If you painted over the grey auto primer then I don't know what this is. I use Rustoleum exclusively for years and have not seen this. Since it did not repeat the error on your other test piece...it would suggest it to be an issue with the substrate. Just my 2 cents. Rustoleum is a true enamel....and should be very forgiving.
    Andrew
     
  8. Jul 19, 2019 #38

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    I also forgot to say I am very sorry this happened....I would be hopping mad too.
    Andrew
     
  9. Jul 19, 2019 #39

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    Longer cure times mean better bond and a harder finish. I love the 5-10 day cure of Rustoleum's Regal Red and the Tan....the finish is very durable and can be buffed out even. Love it.
    Andrew
     
  10. Jul 20, 2019 #40

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Here's the whole paint process so far

    1) sprayed rocket with rustoleum filler/primer
    2) had some fuzzies from sanding cwf on spirals so sanded primer
    3) sprayed another coat of primer for uniform coverage
    4) wet sanded primer for nice, smooth finish
    5) taped off bottom of rocket and sprayed on a color coat, came out good
    6) that afternoon I taped off the rudder and sprayed with Brilliant Blue. Got the texture effect
    7) next day tried to wet sand the brilliant blue hoping I could smooth it out and apply clear coat but I sanded thru. Also in the process of sanding some of the blue tinted water got on the primer and also got on the color coat. Was able to get most of it off with rubbing alcohol
    8) tried the brilliant blue on some scraps and seemed good. Taped off rudder and re-sprayed. The first side came out pretty good but second side had the texture again
    9) that afternoon I sanded the blue off and sprayed the rudder with filler/primer
    10) this morning I taped off the bottom of the rocket and rudder then sprayed the dark gray color coat on the top. Light dusting first coat followed almost immediately with a flow coat. It seemed good at first but it went bad during the spray. I say that because the front part of the rocket is pretty smooth and that's where I started the flow coat.

    Oh, just before I spray any paint I wipe the area down with rubbing alcohol to make sure it's clean.

    That's where it's at now. I'm waiting for the paint to dry enough so I can try wet sanding it with 1000 grit. I'll decide what to do when I see the results of that. I figure that I will probably have to re-spray. If I do, I am afraid to use the 2X again... But, my research today showed me that all enamels are pretty much the same regarding recoat times, wet sanding times, curing times, etc.

    I wish I could remember if these cans came from Wally world or Home Depot. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

    -Bob
     
  11. Jul 20, 2019 #41

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    Bob
    Okay.....step 5 to 6 is a potential problem step. You said that afternoon...if you had color on the rudder....you possibly didn't have enough time between coats. Not enough time for the paint to gas out. If I read this wrong I am sorry...
    Also I have not used filler primer....so if that was not totally dry....like 2 days dry you still may have solvent leftover from the two coats. Wiping down with isopropyl also could have made your uncured paint "soft". These are just guesses. Personally I wait 1 to 2 days between coats on everything.
    So sorry you are having troubles with your finish......I have had projects like this....it sucks man.
    It will work out hang in there.
    Andrew
     
  12. Jul 20, 2019 #42

    Tom

    Tom

    Tom

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    39
    Yep avoid 2x at all costs, unless your painting patio furniture :D
     
  13. Jul 20, 2019 #43

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    Step 8 also points to a possible contaminate on the surface. Or an area of thicker paint/primer that has not fully cured. Just a thought.....
    Andrew
     
  14. Jul 20, 2019 #44

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    I have sprayed TONS of it since it came out with zero problems....if it works on furniture, I should work on rockets....just my experience and opinion. I think this is a prep issue not the paint....IMO
    Andrew
     
  15. Jul 20, 2019 #45

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    Try Ace (hardware) Premium spray paint....also a very good paint. One of the best I have used.
    Andrew
     
  16. Jul 20, 2019 #46

    Tom

    Tom

    Tom

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    39
    I don't know that I have sprayed tons of it. I just know that in warm humid environments it tends to slather on, run. and take forever to cure.

    But that's just my personal experience ::)
     
  17. Jul 20, 2019 #47

    BSNW

    BSNW

    BSNW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    I feel bad you had that experience....I too haved used this paint in hot humid weather with no issues. Maybe it slathered, ran and took forever to cure because it was being sprayed on way too thick and heavy.

    Since others have had both good and bad experiences with this paint and taking into consideration that the formula of the paint has not changed....the remaining variables are application technique and prep/substrate. If it runs...adjust your technique of spraying. Also, taking a long time to dry and cure is a function of tint load (darker colors dry slower), temp/humidity, thickness of coats and paint type. Enamels take longer than lacquers. Taking a long time to cure is a good thing.....for finish an durability. Anyway....just trying to help.
     
  18. Jul 20, 2019 #48

    Tom

    Tom

    Tom

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    39
    Your probably right, still I shy away from the 2X. Get better results with the Ace Premium. But that's just me I suppose.

    Oh forgot to add that ACE is now carrying a new 'cheap' brand of spray paint called "Now". I have had mixed results with this paint. Seems like the darker colors work okay, but the gloss white required many coats for coverage and ended up drying gritty. Ended up sanding it down and applying the Ace Premium.
     
  19. Jul 20, 2019 #49

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Okay.....step 5 to 6 is a potential problem step.
    I may not have been clear. 5) I taped off the rest of the rocket and sprayed the bottom gray 6) I taped off the rest of the rocket and sprayed the rudder blue. I sprayed over primer that was several days old.

    The paint didn't run. It came out of the can smoothly at first then was like splatter paint. The front of the rocket is nice and then it becomes, well, whatever you want to call it
    Sea Tiger Gray Spackle.jpg

    The rocket has not had anything put on the primer other than the isopropyl alcohol I used to wipe it down. So let me ask this question... What does everyone use to wipe down the item they are about to paint immediately prior to painting it? I am willing to try something else.

    -Bob
     
  20. Jul 20, 2019 #50
  21. Jul 22, 2019 #51

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Tomorrow is sanding day on the Sea Tiger. I did wet sand one wing with 1,000 today. Took quite a while and I didn't like the results so tomorrow it is going under the paper, 400 grit sandpaper, in prep for a new coat of paint.

    -Bob
     
  22. Jul 25, 2019 #52

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    I just painted the second color on the Sea Tiger again. The only difference this time is the humidity is 22% and I used a tack cloth instead of the towel dampened with alcohol. It came out good as in no reactions or whatever. Had a little get under the tape in some tight corners but other than that--golden!

    Now it'll sit until Monday when I start the prep for the third color. That'll be interesting because I made a paint mask with the Cricut. I've done some letter stencils before (on the Tempest), but this will go over the entire top of the Sea Tiger.

    -Bob
     
  23. Aug 21, 2019 at 8:23 PM #53

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    84
    Well the Sea Tiger is not dead. It's been sanded and repainted. I stopped using alcohol to wipe down just before spraying and switched to a tack cloth. The dark gray came out much better.

    I cut the paint masks for the stripes with my Cricut and I learned not to do big masks. They are much easier to manage if they are smaller. Anyway, no problem with the black either.

    By the way I sprayed a paper plate with primer and now I test all the paints on it immediately before spraying the model.

    Now then, problems with the rudder again. So I did my test spray on the paper plate and it was fine. I sprayed one side of the rudder and it was fine. I moved to the other side and the paint started acting weird again. I immediately did another spray out on the paper plate and had the issue. The best way I can describe it is that the paint looks like scrubbing bubbles shower cleaner when it contacts the surface. I mean it bubbles up and the bubbles start to decrease in size but the paint starts drying before they can fully go away. Anyway, I sanded with 2,500 grit. I am going to try to paint the tiger head and other markings on then I'll clear coat it and see how it turns out.

    Here's how she looks now:
    Sea Tiger Painted.jpg

    -Bob
     
    neil_w, Mugs914 and Nytrunner like this.

Share This Page