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Fred22

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In order to make plans scale data is really kind of a neat thing to have. What I would like to see in this thread are any scale data sources avaible on online or perhaps if you read a good book with scale data just let us know what it's called. Please do not scan pages from books without permission from the author unless it's say a NASA publication with no problems around copyright :)
Heres my first two :)
Minuteman missile data
http://www.captainswoop.com/icbm/mbuild.html
American spacecraft
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/diagrams/diagrams.htm
Cheers
fred
 

Fred22

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Just to ask a question has anybody seen good scale data on the Sprint or nuclear tipped Falcon air to air missile. I also would not mind finding some data on Genie air to air nuke as well :)
Cheers
fred
 

Micromeister

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Fred:
Such as it is: I have in my Scale files; copies of all the material contained in the National Archive Library, NASM file. Photos, a couple drawings (conflicting of coarse) and a few articles on the Sprint and Sentinel system. What exactly are you looking for?
None of this minor amount of stuff has been scanned. Many of the printed documents, sketches and drawings were pretty faded, they are difficult to read as originals, even worse as copies and likely won't scan well even if I tried. Somewhere in the stack is a sclae model drawing done by a Narhams member back when the newletter was still being done on a memeograph(sp). but apparently was correct enough to have found it's way into the National Archive files. Let me know what you need I'll try to get the details:)
 

Fred22

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Fred:
Such as it is: I have in my Scale files; copies of all the material contained in the National Archive Library, NASM file. Photos, a couple drawings (conflicting of coarse) and a few articles on the Sprint and Sentinel system. What exactly are you looking for?
None of this minor amount of stuff has been scanned. Many of the printed documents, sketches and drawings were pretty faded, they are difficult to read as originals, even worse as copies and likely won't scan well even if I tried. Somewhere in the stack is a sclae model drawing done by a Narhams member back when the newletter was still being done on a memeograph(sp). but apparently was correct enough to have found it's way into the National Archive files. Let me know what you need I'll try to get the details:)
John you are a font of knowledge sir :) How about the genie and the nuclear falcon AAM?
Thanks
Bill
 

Micromeister

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Genie I should have some stuff on; the Nuke Falcon i've never really looked for specifically. I have a file on the Falcon Family of missiles but don't recall anything specific about a nuke version? I'll have to do some reading:)
 

Micromeister

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This one may be of help for the genie Fred;
and a little on the AIM-26 Nuclear Falcon b&w pic. AIM-47 Falcons could go either HE or nuke so I'm not sure which you want.

800px-Convair_F-106A_Delta_Dart_fire Genie_06-19-57.jpg


Genie-MB-1-b_on Rail at whitesands_.jpg


AIM-26 Nuclear Falson b&w(11.4in x 84.25in).jpg


yf-12_AIM-47 Falcon (34.3cm x 2.07m long)_68.jpg
 
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Pem Tech

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Just to ask a question has anybody seen good scale data on the Sprint or nuclear tipped Falcon air to air missile. I also would not mind finding some data on Genie air to air nuke as well :)
Cheers
fred
Oh yeah, Fred is on to something good here, a scale Sprint and/or Squirt would be most groovy. He also mentions the Genie, which would be a great scale project but seems to have been overlooked for some reason. Any DETAIL data on the former or the following would be most appreciated:

Nike Zeus A
Hughes GAR-11/AIM-26 Falcon
GAR-1 Falcon
GAR-9/AIM-47 Falcon
AIM-47B Falcon
AGM-76 Falcon
Air Force Weapons Lab AIM-68 Big Q
There are a bunch more but it is time to do the Day Job thing.

http://www.designation-systems.net is a good resource of basic info but more is always better.
:D


As silly as it sounds I can't find good detail data on the Saturn SA-5. ROTW has some info, Meatball rocketry has a bit and the NASA archives have great pictures but where do I find close-up detail (schematic) info with dimensions?
 

powderburner

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I am digging for an old Sprint image that I burned onto a CD for storage, but I don't remember where I put it (I should know better by now). It is a line drawing cutaway of the profile of a Sprint, presumably scale, and provides some interesting details of the missile's guts.

If you find this image before I do (and if I do, I'll post it), be warned that before you start scaling measurements from it, you need to account for the little translating nose cap. The drawing clearly shows it in the extended position, as the missile would sit in the "ready" condition in a launch silo. The nose cap is slid forward to allow umbilical access to the nose electronics and other systems. At launch, the umbilicals are detached and the nose cap is seated back into the "flight" configuration. So the drawing shows the missile in a good scale drawing (or certainly looks like it does), but in a pre-launch configuration.

Something that many modelers seem to miss is that the Sprint has two different conic angles. They are only different by a few degrees, and in many photos the surface change is difficult to see, but it is there and it is an important "scale" feature of the exterior of the missile. The angle change is located at a station near the forward end of the upper stage. It's a feature that is easy to skip, and most modelers wouldn't care. I have not seen a kit yet that includes this feature.

Sprint apparently used some relatively exotic propellants to achieve that spectacular performance, the kind of stuff that is not safe to breathe after launch and all that. While I have absolutely no desire to reconstruct any form of this propellant, it would still be interesting to me to learn more about the chemicals and why they were so much more powerful than "regular" propellants.
 

powderburner

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As silly as it sounds I can't find good detail data on the Saturn SA-5. ROTW has some info, Meatball rocketry has a bit and the NASA archives have great pictures but where do I find close-up detail (schematic) info with dimensions?
There are sources on the web where scale modelling enthusiasts will be happy to sell you a data CD...
 

Fred22

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Oh yeah, Fred is on to something good here, a scale Sprint and/or Squirt would be most groovy. He also mentions the Genie, which would be a great scale project but seems to have been overlooked for some reason. Any DETAIL data on the former or the following would be most appreciated:

Nike Zeus A
Hughes GAR-11/AIM-26 Falcon
GAR-1 Falcon
GAR-9/AIM-47 Falcon
AIM-47B Falcon
AGM-76 Falcon
Air Force Weapons Lab AIM-68 Big Q
There are a bunch more but it is time to do the Day Job thing.

http://www.designation-systems.net is a good resource of basic info but more is always better.
:D


As silly as it sounds I can't find good detail data on the Saturn SA-5. ROTW has some info, Meatball rocketry has a bit and the NASA archives have great pictures but where do I find close-up detail (schematic) info with dimensions?
Try here for some of your stuff :)
http://www.rocketryonline.com/jimball/alway/missile_scale_data.htm#Falcon
John thanks for the photos :) Powder I too am interested in the sprint. The Pentomic era was fascinating I think.
Cheers
fred
 

brianc

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Pem Tech

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Powderburner - Yeah I had considered that but was really hoping for free sources. But then aagin we could write it off as a bidness expense under "research".
;)

Fred22 and Brianc, thanks for the links I'll give them a shot.

Micomeister, thanks for the photos, the second Genie picture was one I hadn't seen before.
 

powderburner

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Sprint inboard profile. Looks like scale proportions to me.

Sorry but I do not have any notes on what website this came from.

What impresses me is the size of those two motor cases WRT the rest of the missile. No wonder it launched with a buzillion g's of accel!

pic007.jpg
 

Micromeister

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Not to mention the Sprint was literally thrown out of it's cell, into the air by a gas generator-driven Piston before the 1st stage motor is lit. the Sprint was quite a unique missile in many ways.
I've gotta spend some time scanning some of this stuff. the history and write ups on the Nike-X project (Sentinel Deffence System) is facinating.
The System included the Sprint and Spartan (Nike-X) Missiles along with a super 2-phased array Radar system at each site (1959-1968).
Super KEWL stuff!
 

Pem Tech

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Sprint inboard profile. Looks like scale proportions to me.

Sorry but I do not have any notes on what website this came from.

What impresses me is the size of those two motor cases WRT the rest of the missile. No wonder it launched with a buzillion g's of accel!
Most groovy, always wondered what a sprint would look like nekkid.

While we are on the subject of air defense missiles during the 60's and 70's, I discovered a new source of info on the Nike Hercules, at work no less. The now retired Branch Chief of the Radioactive Materials program is working part time to help us catch-up on our licensing backlog. A backlog that stretches back to 2000!
:eek:

Anyway, while discussing a license application in my office he noticed my EMRR rocket calendar, and the discussion turned to rocketry. Come to find out he had been the Unit Commander for a Nike Hercules installation before leaving the military! And he loves talking about the missile! WOOT!
 

Micromeister

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Yes it's truely a small world! All my folks we deeply involved in the NRL space launch programs, including Vanguard. Dad built the "grapfruits" that flew on TV-3 and 4 and most of the backups now on display at Goddard SFC.

After being married to my loving wife for more then 20 some years, and having a pretty good relationship with her family I found out at one of the Big family dinners that back in the day my father-in-Law work on and flew Nike-Ajax and Hike-Hercules with his National Guard unit. After much prodding and pleading, I got to see some of the super-8 movies he and his buddies shot during training Launches out in the west. Very interesting stuff.
All those years. but the subject just never came up....wierd!
 

CTimm

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Just to ask a question has anybody seen good scale data on the Sprint or nuclear tipped Falcon air to air missile. I also would not mind finding some data on Genie air to air nuke as well :)
Cheers
fred
Somewhat, Yes, and Yes.
 

sandman

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CTimm

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data on the former or the following would be most appreciated:

GAR-9/AIM-47 Falcon
I've heard of a scale kit of this missile.
Laser cut basswood fins & slotted tube. No decals.
Plastic chute. Pre-weighted cone for stability for E9.
BT-60 diameter.
Complete with accurate data drawing and several full page pictures.
Uncle Mike's Rocket Shack might still have one left in stock.
 

Pem Tech

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I've heard of a scale kit of this missile.
Laser cut basswood fins & slotted tube. No decals.
Plastic chute. Pre-weighted cone for stability for E9.
BT-60 diameter.
Complete with accurate data drawing and several full page pictures.
Uncle Mike's Rocket Shack might still have one left in stock.

Oooooohh Groovy...
Thanks
 

Meatball 1

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It may be difficult to find data detailed beyond Peter Always drawings that I posted here the end of 2008: http://www.meatballrocketry.com/sa1_data.htm

If you do find any, I'll be the first to want to know. :)

Any "Corrective" data that I have come across has been in the form of Saturn IB drawings (David Weeks) or the PDF Saturn IB drawings from the CD the Apogee Books Saturn I/IB book, as well as video stills from the Mighty Saturns DVDs. There are also various tidbits about SA-5's antennas and such at ntrs.nasa.gov. I am also working on some corrective data on the Block II fins and holddowns, but it is not nearly ready to post.

Also to add... any scale data that I may post may be found via this page: http://www.meatballrocketry.com/articles.htm
 
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Stymye

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Sprint inboard profile. Looks like scale proportions to me.

Sorry but I do not have any notes on what website this came from.

What impresses me is the size of those two motor cases WRT the rest of the missile. No wonder it launched with a buzillion g's of accel!

lots of nice sprint pics here
http://srmsc.org/mis2050.html

I have some others in a file as well if anyone needs them, Including some data on a 29mm mid/high power version.
 
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