# Same name, same company, two different rockets

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#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
Continuing under the "same rocket, same company, two different names" ...
There is a current pair like this for sale. The little two-stage # 7275 Sterling Silver is being sold by Hobby Lobby as #7286 Epic II. The two models are identical except for livery/decals. It's a really nice flyer.

I suspect but have not verified that the #7288 Solo sold by Hobby Lobby and the #7298 Neon Tiger are a similar pair.

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#### Cape Byron

##### The BAR formerly known as Skippy-2
TRF Supporter
So, 'out of site' means away from the launch field?

#### Joshua Smith

##### kernelsmith
TRF Supporter
Google traffic is an essential component in online business. If people are searching for these old kits, I'm positive any experienced SEO would try and find a way to take advantage of that. Targeting the right things can add thousands of site visits a day, especially when you have the kind of domain authority that Estes does.
Plus, you can have nice packaging AND name the kit something that is already getting searches.

Again, speculation. It could just come down to ole' fashion laziness.
Why not add a postfix (or whatever it's called) like Vagabond 2 or II. You'd still get the SEO bonus, but people could more easily tell them apart.

Also, I think the Hercules is another example, tho not sure if they changed the SKU or not. Herc was a great two stager. Half a mile easy. Lining up the fins (back then) kinda sucked tho

#### beeblebrox

##### 8 C6-0, 12 D11-9, 20 D20-0, 20 E5-0, 3 Cinerocs
Haven't seen one of those motors in a long time. Originally Vashon... I actually flew one of those in NAR drag race competition, no worries about misfires, always first off the pad, and always lowest altitude... a winner every time!

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
So, 'out of site' means away from the launch field?
Yup.... no tracking smoke or any such thing with a Vashon rocket....it went up and, as far as I know, just winked out of existence.

We've already discussed in this thread the sort of "hope it will just fall out and open" aspect of the parachute recovery system in the Vashon models, so not seeing an open 'chute was not that unusual, even on a warm summer day in the US Southwest.

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#### Joekeyo

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Probably would have bought it if it was named Dog Barf.
You might be onto something there. How 'bout 3FNC for a rocket name. One with 4 fins.

TRF Supporter

#### cbwho

##### Well-Known Member
Estes used "Scorcher" for one of the Land Rocket kits.

View attachment 439167

These things were really fun! Maybe I need to make a post on the "I wish Estes still made this kit" thread...

View attachment 439168
I tried making a land speed car out of blocks of balsa as a kid. Very arrow shaped. The trouble was, that any road surface imperfection made it bounce in the air. Could a similar car as the above work on black powder engines?

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Could a similar car as the above work on black powder engines?
Attached to a string to keep it from bouncing.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
Vacuum the asphalt.

#### Mugs914

##### "A crummy commercial..!!??"
I tried making a land speed car out of blocks of balsa as a kid. Very arrow shaped. The trouble was, that any road surface imperfection made it bounce in the air. Could a similar car as the above work on black powder engines?
I've built dozens of rocket cars over the years, some line-guided like the Blurzz cars, others free running, with varying degrees of success. Some were built with rocket parts, others using model airplane type construction methods, a few from aluminum and a couple of plastic model conversions. Several use motor ejection to deploy a chute, shortest possible delay was the best bet!

I found that a few of the keys to keeping them on the deck were to use some type of suspension system to absorb the bumps, a bit of aero downforce, and a good FOD walk along the course.

Motor selection with respect to the course length was also very important of course, and the occasional failure to calculate (guess) correctly tended to result in the rather rapid and violent disassembly of the vehicle in question, often followed, depending on the course location, by an equally speedy departure from the scene of the incident. Good fun...

You know, there is a new housing development going in not too far down the road. Lots of straight, billiard table smooth asphalt...

Lessee, I know I've got some nice little wheels around here somewhere...

#### Cape Byron

##### The BAR formerly known as Skippy-2
TRF Supporter
I found that a few of the keys to keeping them on the deck were to use some type of suspension system to absorb the bumps, a bit of aero downforce, and a good FOD walk along the course.
Ha! You sound like Jim Hall from Chaparral, my hero BTW.

#### berlinetta

##### Well-Known Member
After reading through this thread, I noticed that one big one was missing. The Estes Magician. My dad built the original version, circa 1986-1987. I built the newer version, circa 2010. Don't quote me on the years. I know I'm off. I'm in possession of my dad's Magician.

#### sl98

##### Well-Known Member
Monarch is one also.
The Green & White newer one.
When they had the "Go Wild" paint scheme competition "Win Free Stuff" there was another Monarch.
I seen one on Ebay last week, I think it was grey. Over priced or I would have bid on it.

Estes 2172 vs Estes 7214

##### Well-Known Member
I tried making a land speed car out of blocks of balsa as a kid. Very arrow shaped. The trouble was, that any road surface imperfection made it bounce in the air. Could a similar car as the above work on black powder engines?
We just used a Hot Wheel. It spun up the street and you could see a couple of spots on the orange track where the business end of the motor touched down. The car disassembled itself as it went up the street. Luckily there was no traffic to speak of.

#### 5x7

##### Well-Known Member
Continuing under the "same rocket, same company, two different names"...
2018/2165 Super Big Bertha
And converted to 29mm, through the wall fins, PSII Super Big Bertha

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##### Well-Known Member
After reading through this thread, I noticed that one big one was missing. The Estes Magician. My dad built the original version, circa 1986-1987. I built the newer version, circa 2010. Don't quote me on the years. I know I'm off. I'm in possession of my dad's Magician.

TRF Supporter

#### cbwho

##### Well-Known Member
I always liked these TV show sci-fi space fighter kits:

and the Design Contest X-wing model:
My new rule for myself, all of my new rocket builds will be modified to be space/air plane variety

I want that F-18? (F-15?) In the background of the Broadsword image
What catalog year is the scissors wing rocket F-?? from? So cool it transformed into a glider?

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#### cbwho

##### Well-Known Member
Rare Classic Estes TomCat Swing Wing Challenge Series Flying Model Rocket

one for sale on ebay for \$

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#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Same name, different company. slightly different rocket.

Semroc/Centuri Recruiter

Estes Recruiter

The Estes model is significantly larger.
But clearly it is based on the original Centuri design.
Semroc version is a Retro-Repro.

My clones. Semroc on the left, Estes on the right.
I'll get these painted one day.

#### neil_w

##### Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
The differences are intriguing. Estes has the transition further forward, and they changed the fin shape.

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Upscaled, modified the fin shape, and added a tail nozzle.
But they're both six finned.
Easy clone with the nose cone/transition from Sirius Moldin Oldies.
Took me a while to figure out what "Type E" and Type C" meant.

#### sl98

##### Well-Known Member

EST 0806 vs EST 2107

Here is another - Firestreak. The 90’s version is on the right and features balsa fins and slotted body tube. The more recent version is a snap together. Does SST mean “Simple Snap Together?”

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Found a few more:
Estes Menace
#2041

#2173

Este Star Blazer:
In addition to the K-31, TK-31 and 0831 there is #1444

And the Estes Polaris:

#1324

And #2174

nevermind!

#### mo2872

##### Well-Known Member
Same name, different company. slightly different rocket.

Semroc/Centuri Recruiter
View attachment 439702

Estes Recruiter
View attachment 439707

The Estes model is significantly larger.
But clearly it is based on the original Centuri design.
Semroc version is a Retro-Repro.

View attachment 439711
My clones. Semroc on the left, Estes on the right.
I'll get these painted one day.
I have this one in the Estes version. Built about 1990 or so! One of the few that survived an unfortunate ignition of a box full of motors in my shop a few years ago! Painted with what I had on hand back then.....I was a poor teenager!

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##### Well-Known Member
I have this one in the Estes version. Built about 1990 or so! One of the few that survived an unfortunate ignition of a box full of motors in my shop a few years ago! Painted with what I had on hand back then.....I was a poor teenager!
How did that happen?

#### mo2872

##### Well-Known Member
How did that happen?
Long story short, I wasn’t paying attention. Cutting metal with a cutoff wheel, and didn’t watch where the sparks were going. Suffice it to say, black powder motors will ignite with a shower of sparks. I had 35 motors in that box......28 lit off. All sizes from 1/2a to E. Lost a Sidewinder, Comanche 3, S.W.A.T., SR-71, and a Phoenix. Couple of others I don’t recall the names.

After a bit of hopping around in a panic, I threw a couple of towels over the burning box and rockets, and pulled them off the shelf onto the shop floor. Did my best dance moves on top of them, and snuffed it out.

I kind of wish I had video, I’m sure I’d have won some prize. Whether it was AFV, or a Darwin, is irrelevant.