SAD NEWS - First model rocket flight fatality announced by NAR President

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From the reports it sounds like the rocket was discarded or lost. Any confirmation on this?
 
Does anyone know if the local PD anyone who can help investigate? I doubt they have people at the local or county level who understand the hobby... Would they be able to trace trajectory like they do a bullet? I just think the family should get at least some form of closure as to what went wrong...
 
I'll not add to the hearsay; Ted will fill us in as details emerge.

But I will wholeheartedly agree to the comments surrounding attention to launch angle. I've been to many launches across the country over a several year span; TRA, NAR, Indy, Renegade, you name it. Very simply, there are some groups that just don't pay attention to launch angles, other groups that do, and then a mixture of both.

Here's my plea: regardless of wind direction, always angle away from the crowd: ALWAYS. If possible, position the crowd downwind of the pads (I know: not always possible). There are people that will say that a rocket will travel where it desires....what I KNOW is that stable rockets fly into the wind; and launch angles DO affect trajectory. Please keep them pointed away from the crowd.

Very real observation: there is a very direct correlation to clubs that don't pay attention to launch angles and ballistic rockets coming down in the pits. Some pad managers work with flyers on the angle, not allowing straight up or toward the crowd; others don't. I'll use TWA as an example: Frank is pretty insistent about angling away from the crowd. TWA (largely Frank) hosted LDRS last year, while a few rockets came down under chute in the flyer area, I don't recall any ballistic entries into the pits. That is one group that pays attention to pad angles (you have to flying at Bong!!!:))

Not saying that's what happened here, but this is a fairly important (IMO) observation I've witnessed for years. Launch angles matter!

-Eric-
 
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Yes.

I have no information and have not posted any speculation and I've encourage our local NAR section members (on our YahooGroup) to not speculate as well.

As many people are aware (facts, not speculation): CA state law (which cannot be overruled by a local fire authority) currently defines a Model Rocket as having a maximum liftoff weight of 500 grams. Anything over 500 grams liftoff weight must be launched as a High Power Rocket with the associated requirements - High Power Rocket launching permit from the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) as well as having a licensed "Pyrotechnic Operator - Rockets (First, Second or Third Class)" on site and supervising.

The CA State law changes on January 1, 2016 and the definitions of a "Model Rocket" then become the N.F.P.A. definitions. Until then, the law must be obeyed. Safety Codes tell you to obey all laws.


I was at the gym this morning and the big TV hanging in front of the recumbent bike I was on has local CBS affiliate news on. They had a report on the fatality. There was no new facts, but they did show lots of video from past events with many large rockets shown being launched. Recognizing the kits from these past launch videos, I can say with certainty that many of the rockets launched at those past launches shown in the past videos were well over the 500 gram limit. The videos could not be used to easily determine what power level of motors were used in the past in those past videos.

In other words, the showing of past videos is not helpful in determining what happened at this particular launch where the incident occurred. Thank you local TV news....Don Henley explained this for us already.



Ted Cochran said:
I have no new information today. We will, at an appropriate time, try to get more information about what actually happened. Until then, speculation isn't very helpful. When I have some facts, I'll share them. Meanwhile, all I know is what is in the press articles posted here and elsewhere. Please keep Mr. Bentley in your thoughts.
Click to expand...
 
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shreadvector said:
Yes.

I have no information and have not posted any speculation and I've encourage our local NAR section members (on our YahooGroup) to not speculate as well.
...
Click to expand...

Thanks Fred. Just to clarify: "...they did show lots of video from past events with many large rockets shown being launched." These were videos of past Rocket Raves held by the Inland Empire Council, BSA and not random launch videos, correct ?
 
I hate to be the first to say it but, after viewing the videos I would say there is room for improvement as far as launch safety goes.
 
shreadvector said:
The CA State law changes on January 1, 2016 and the definitions of a "Model Rocket" then become the N.F.P.A. definitions. Until then, the law must be obeyed. Safety Codes tell you to obey all laws.
Click to expand...

Fred,

This might be a bit off topic, but what are the CA State law changes for 2016 pertaining to rocketry?
 
Simply, the two paragraphs that define a "Model Rocket" and "Model Rocket Engine" in the state law have been revised to refer to N.F.P.A. code - current definitions in current edition of the code or any later revision.

It also changes "Engine" to "Motor".

Permit requirements are not changed as those are mandated by State Fire Regulations.

It does not affect High Power Rockets as they were never defined in the law - they are covered by State Regulations.

Read all about it:
https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_467&sess=CUR&house=B&author=chang_<chang>
https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_467&sess=CUR&house=B&author=chang_<chang>


4kids49 said:
Fred,

This might be a bit off topic, but what are the CA State law changes for 2016 pertaining to rocketry?
Click to expand...
 
Is "Rocket Rave" a NAR or TRA covered event, from the reports this was an event put on by the BSA. I'm not from that area and have never heard of the event prior to now.
 
rharshberger said:
Is "Rocket Rave" a NAR or TRA covered event, from the reports this was an event put on by the BSA. I'm not from that area and have never heard of the event prior to now.
Click to expand...

Some searches I did based on info in the original link provided by the NAR Pres tell me that it's an annual event put on by the Inland Empire Council of the Boy Scouts of America. I asked in an earlier post if any TRFer's might have attended past events but no replies so far.
 
Nobody has ANY facts beyond the reports that have been noted in the links provided above.

So, this was not an NAR Section event (not ROC, not SCRA....). There are no facts one way or the other if anyone there was an NAR member.

One would assume that BSA insurance would cover an officially sponsored event IF AND ONLY IF all Federal, State and Local laws were obeyed.



rharshberger said:
Is "Rocket Rave" a NAR or TRA covered event, from the reports this was an event put on by the BSA. I'm not from that area and have never heard of the event prior to now.
Click to expand...
 
Dreadful news. A set back for rocketry maybe, but much much more for his family whose lives must be at a hopeless standstill following such a wasteful and tragic event.
My condolences and wishes lay with the family and their difficult road ahead.

SO.
 
rharshberger said:
Is "Rocket Rave" a NAR or TRA covered event, from the reports this was an event put on by the BSA. I'm not from that area and have never heard of the event prior to now.
Click to expand...

My sons are scouts in the BSA Inland Empire Council. The day this happened I was with our troop at a different rocketry event being held a Lucerne Dry lake and which is sponsored by ROC (NAR #45) which is approximately 30 miles west of the location of the tragic accident. I am fairly certain that the event where the accident took place is not a NAR-sanctioned event.

I was not there so I don't want to speculate on what happened. But it suffices to say that I have spoken to folks who have attended past events (and I've seen video of past events) and as a result I was never comfortable sending my boys to this particular gathering so we never participated.

My biggest issue was rockets being launched from the ground (as opposed to raised platforms) I was paranoid someone was gonna get poked in the eye with a launch rod. In addition, they didn't have a Range Marshalls with loudspeakers in order to track and announce incoming debris/rockets.


My condolences to Mr. Bentley's family......in light of this event it sounds as if our local NAR-affiliated club (ROC) is going to review its own launch policies to ensure safety at its own events in the future.
 
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visigoth said:
My sons are scouts in the BSA Inland Empire Council. The day this happened I was with our troop at a different rocketry event being held a Lucerne Dry lake and which is sponsored by ROC (NAR #45) which is approximately 30 miles west of the location of the tragic accident. I am fairly certain that the event where the accident took place is not a NAR-sanctioned event.

I was not there so I don't want to speculate on what happened. But it suffices to say that I have spoken to folks who have attended past events (and I've seen video of past events) and as a result I was never comfortable sending my boys to this particular gathering so we never participated.

My biggest issue was rockets being launched from the ground (as opposed to raised platforms) I was paranoid someone was gonna get poked in the eye with a launch rod. In addition, they didn't have a Range Marshalls with loudspeakers in order to track and announce incoming debris/rockets.


My condolences to Mr. Bentley's family......in light of this event it sounds as if our local NAR-affiliated club (ROC) is going to review its own launch policies to ensure safety at its own events in the future.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that insight. Welcome to the forum and here's hoping for happier topics to post about in the future.
 
The reason I asked is one of the pictures from a report it looks like an adult is actually standing right next to a pad just taking his hand of a 1.6" Superoc ( not naming a particularly well known kit) with a lit motor at about 50 secs into the CBS Los Angeles video linked by someone above, that's a big safety issue.
 
rharshberger said:
The reason I asked is one of the pictures from a report it looks like an adult is actually standing right next to a pad just taking his hand of a 1.6" Superoc ( not naming a particularly well known kit) with a lit motor at about 50 secs into the CBS Los Angeles video linked by someone above, that's a big safety issue.
Click to expand...
Yes, from the looks of that still photo, I'd say so. Not one you'd want to give to a news station to use or to put on-line for them to find.
 
rharshberger said:
The reason I asked is one of the pictures from a report it looks like an adult is actually standing right next to a pad just taking his hand of a 1.6" Superoc ( not naming a particularly well known kit) with a lit motor at about 50 secs into the CBS Los Angeles video linked by someone above, that's a big safety issue.
Click to expand...

I saw that and it certainly does appear from that angle that he is in fact holding onto the rocket at or just before ignition. Optimistically it could just be a optical illusion, or camera angle, at least I would hope so.
 
shreadvector said:
Simply, the two paragraphs that define a "Model Rocket" and "Model Rocket Engine" in the state law have been revised to refer to N.F.P.A. code - current definitions in current edition of the code or any later revision.

It also changes "Engine" to "Motor".

Permit requirements are not changed as those are mandated by State Fire Regulations.

It does not affect High Power Rockets as they were never defined in the law - they are covered by State Regulations.

Read all about it:
https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_467&sess=CUR&house=B&author=chang_<chang>
https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_467&sess=CUR&house=B&author=chang_<chang>
Click to expand...

Thanks Fred.
 
rcktnut said:
I hate to be the first to say it but, after viewing the videos I would say there is room for improvement as far as launch safety goes.
Click to expand...

+1

I did a little searching, as with many others, I had never heard of this event. During the search, I came upon another troop's facebook page that had participated in the event. I did come across a pic from last year's event, of an adult holding what appeared to be a large upscale of an actual bottle rocket. It looked to be about a 4" diameter airframe, with a stick made from a walking stick. It could easily have been just a static prop, but, one never knows unless they were there.

All speculation aside, condolences and prayers to the family, friends, and fellow Scouts.
 
rharshberger said:
The reason I asked is one of the pictures from a report it looks like an adult is actually standing right next to a pad just taking his hand of a 1.6" Superoc ( not naming a particularly well known kit) with a lit motor at about 50 secs into the CBS Los Angeles video linked by someone above, that's a big safety issue.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the flags blowing. The super roc is on an 1/8" rod. Put 2 and 2 together.

Look at the range set up in the photo, square blocks marked off around each pad with people standing around each block. Would not pass muster at any NAR launch I have been to.

Like most tragedies it looks like a combination of factors that brought the odds down from (i.e. 1:500,000,000 to 1:1,000,000) and it happened.
 
I trust that Ted and the folks at NAR will learn something from this that will make rocketry even safer for us and others in the future. But, in the mean time, it's important to remember that our hobby is just as safe as it was a week ago. While that is comforting, it doesn't diminish the sadness I feel.

I never met Mike Bentley, but hearing what people who knew him are saying, he reminds me of several people I know, many friends, who devote much of their lives helping kids though Scouting, rocketry, and other activities. It's such a tragic loss for his family and friends, as well as the kids he has supported.

If you haven't already done so, please visit https://www.gofundme.com/MikeBentley and give a few dollars. Though it's a small gesture, it's nice that there is such a simple way to show support for his family.

-- Roger
 
Hi,

i joined because someone told me on the article rockerteers wanted more information for rocket safety concerns. I was at the event. My husband is a scoutmaster and we took our troop to this event. We were all very excited. All of our kids including myself built rockets from the EStes kits you buy at hobby lobby. They did launch safety with the kids and had leaders running the launches on the kids. If there's anything that I can take back to my troop about how to correctly go about having a rocket launch day with our troop I would love that information. I know the kids want to launch them but honestly at this point after witnessing everything unless they are made out of cotton balls and marshmallows I'm not sure how I feel.

The rocket that was launched I'm not sure if it was a kit. I can post a picture of it and maybe you'll recognize it. The leader who was killed was a great person and I think that this was the equivalent of being struck by lighting as it was so horrific and strange.

Mother rocket was at least 4 feet by 4 inches in diameter. I saw that the launch pads were angled away from the crowd. I myself not knowing much about rockets noticed it because I thought it was off but now I know. The rockets that were launched before this we're going straight away from the crowd. Far into the lake bed. This rocket launched. Did not go very high, turned exactly straight back down and nose dived exactly where it was shot from. My 911 call was at 11:41 am. He was looking at the sky people yelled. It was like he didn't see it and it hit his face. He fell and the leader next to him immediately yelled for the kids to stay back and for 911. We were at the launch pad beside him. I called 911 with other leaders. They immediately had a nurse that happened to be at the event coordinate everything. They started a CPR chain and it took over 40min to an hour for the ambulance to arrive on site after CPR and then the helicopter came and took him.

It it was horrific and my heart goes out to his family. Such a fun day was turned so tragic. If anyone can tell me how to post a pic I can put one of the rockets as they launched.
 
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