Rust-Oleum Primer Adhesion Promoter meltdown

Klatuso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
153
Reaction score
15
I am a newbie building my fourth rocket since joining this thread. I carefully did all according to the book on this large SA-14 Archer that I paid 60 bucks for, and then at my local hardware store I saw Rust-Oleum Adhesion Promoter Primer, "Bonds Topcoats to Vinyl, Plastic, Fiberglass and more." So when I was ready I gave a couple coats. Then I applied Rust-Oleum gloss white. Gave a couple coats that went on great. So, I thought a bit more of a good thing ain't bad. I applied one more light coat of the Adhesion Promotor and then...all heck broke loose. Major orange peeling. No, Leprosy of the paint. Bubbling, blisters, horror.

Immediately I tried to take it off with paint thinner and paper towels...taking of all the previous layers leaving cliffs of paint, divots. Imagine the worst.

So, my thought is leave it to dry for two days or more...lightly sand, fill the divots, and go on with painting gloss white. Obviously my immediate response while the paint was still wet didn't work.

Any ideas?
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
9,167
Reaction score
1,393
Location
Savannah Ga
Hmmmm...lol...lol...ya did the equivalent of putting paint stripper on finish coat.

Adhesion primer chemically bonds to plastics NOT paint. It will attack paint, the volatiles "dig" into plastic.
They will destroy paint, so in essence...you thought wrong. Kinda like thinking well my oil is full in my car...hmmm More is better I'll add another gallon, then ya put it in the radiator :smile:

This stuff is based on Aromatic Hydrocarbons and Ketones......[ Benzene, tolune, and xylene are most common]
The simplest such compound is acetone.

View attachment ATO-01_Automotive_Adhesion_Promoter_TDS.pdf

Guess what's in paint stripper? :y:

You will have to start over after cleaning up..spray again with adhesion promoter [after removing all paint].
You should finish coat no later than10 minutes after primer is dry..as per instructions on the can.
 
Last edited:

ksaves2

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
6,562
Reaction score
690
Location
Central Illinois
One doesn't put primer on after they've primered and shot the topcoat color so it doesn't make sense. Unfortunately the OP found out the hard way. Lesson learned.
Do surface prep, filler, primer, color coat and clearcoat if one wants a car wax shine. Throw in a lot of wet sanding with incredibly fine sandpaper (on the gloss coat),
rubbing compound, polishing compound and then carwax. And oh yeah, a lot of elbow grease. PITA! Thank heavens for colored tubes for everyday fliers.

Build, fillet fins and fly. Screw paint otherwise. Ain't gonna see much anyways if it goes up high so use a tracker.

Kurt
 

ThirstyBarbarian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
10,933
Reaction score
5,078
On most rockets, you don’t need adhesion promoter, unless you are painting something that paint REALLY doesn’t want to stick to. Certain kinds of plastic nosecones might benefit, but most don’t need it. A regular primer will work in most cases. I like Rustoleum filler primer. Filler primer fills in small imperfections, and you can sand it smooth before adding the color coat.

To fix what you have now, sand off all the paint. Then repaint, starting with a regular primer or filler primer. Let the primer dry, then sand it smooth. Repeat until you have the surface you want. Paint on the gloss white.
 

blackjack2564

Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
9,167
Reaction score
1,393
Location
Savannah Ga
Oh man..I feel for you. Didn't realize you did the whole rocket, was thinking just the plastic nose cone.

Good luck...patience is a virtue when repairing.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
10,933
Reaction score
5,078
Good luck...patience is a virtue when repairing.

Ain't that the truth! I have a surprising number of rockets that I have had to sand off ALL the paint and start over from the beginning. In fact, right now, 3 out of my 4 currently flying rockets have had complete, top-to-bottom repaints! Most of them were not due to actual painting disasters, but I was unhappy enough with the initial results, I decided to redo the whole thing.
 

Klatuso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
153
Reaction score
15
Looking for an easy out here. Not all the rocket is shredded. Could I sand out the damaged areas and leave the rest? Do I really need to sand off all this work I spent a week on? It's funny the actual assembly of the rocket was easy. My first time using epoxy which was crazy messy. But the most time was spent sanding, filling, sanding, filling, priming, sanding...etce.
 

samb

Lifetime Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
4,511
Reaction score
950
Location
Plano, TX
First thing I would do is take a break. Go get a cold adult beverage (if over the legal drinking age, otherwise forget I mentioned that). My answers to your questions are Yes and No. Others might give you different answers. Not every rocket needs to be a museum piece and not everyone is a great painter (ask me how I know :) ) Ya know what, IT DON'T MATTER ! Every rocket looks great heading up with some fire comin' out the business end. If your serious about improving your skills you should find the local club and hang out. That's what I did. Most rocketeers are incredibly generous passing on their secrets. I still learn more from my rocket buddies than from this old Internet.
My 2 cents ...
One man's opinion ...
YMMV
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
339
Reaction score
255
Location
Lebanon,IN
I can only tell you what I would do in your situation. First, I would throw all Rust-oleum paint cans in the trash, and never buy them again. That is what I did a couple of years back. I would try to remove as much of the current paint as possible without damaging the airframe any more than has already happened. I would then sand the current paint to promote adhesion. If there are deep spots in the finish, fill them with Elmer's Fill-N-Finish Lite, or Squadron Putty from the hobby shop. Sand those deep spots as smooth as possible. Now to build up a new, smooth finish.
Go to the auto parts store and purchase Dupli-Color Primer Filler, or Sandable Primer. The Filler has more solids, so it is better, but either will work. I get mine at the local Advance Auto Parts. This paints walks all over Rust-Oleum. Apply a thin coat over the old paint. If it orange peels, great. This paint dries in an hour, and you can remove the blistered paint. If it does not blister, you are now starting to create a Sandable base coat. Let the paint dry, and use 100-150 grit paper to remove the paint, until it gets a "marbled" look. You just sanded off the high spots, and the remaining paint (not sanded off) is filling in the low spots. Apply another coat of the primer, wait an hour for it to dry, and repeat the sanding. Keep doing this until everything is getting smooth (probably 5-6 coats). When you think it is smooth, I suggest you spray a coat of this same primer in a different color--I like to use the dark red primer first, then switch to gray for the last coat or two. As you remove the different colored-primer, look at where it's left behind to see if there are still low or high spots in your finish. Once you think it is smooth, give a final light coat of primer--no sanding--as the base coat for your paint color. I recommend that you use a color finish from the auto store--preferably a Dupli-Color paint as well. My paint troubles nearly disappeared when I started using spray cans from the auto parts store, and I avoided Rust-Oleum. The auto store primer is a lacquer-based paint that dries quickly. Anyway, my 2 cents on it.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
339
Reaction score
255
Location
Lebanon,IN
You don't need an adhesion promoter--the Sandable primer is great. Also, for nose cones my technique is to wet-sand them under a trickle of water at the kitchen sink with some 220 grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper. Great stuff. Once the cone is sanded, wipe it dry with a paper towel. Start using Filler Primer or Sandable Primer and go from there.
 

Klatuso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
153
Reaction score
15
Great suggestions thank you. My favorite is to enjoy an adult beverage. Being 54 years old, this is a tried and true strategy. I'm going to let this rocket sit for a few days to off gas, then sand and try again. Nothing is too broken that it cannot be fixed. the bones of the rocket are solid. No need for me to freak out over a few millimeters of paint. Thank you for talking me down from the brink.
 

samb

Lifetime Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
4,511
Reaction score
950
Location
Plano, TX
... If your serious about improving your skills you should find the local club and hang out. That's what I did. Most rocketeers are incredibly generous passing on their secrets. I still learn more from my rocket buddies than from this old Internet.
...


Let me add that it's not to say that the TRFers aren't as generous with their expertise as the locals. It's just that for myself, and maybe the op, I learn better from a hands on demonstration or someone standing behind my back when I'm trying something new or struggling with a particular task. The TRFers are ACES BABY !!! :)
 

CPUTommy

Thrust cures All
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
1,137
Reaction score
164
Location
Massachusetts
TIP
Use the SAME PRIMER mfg as the eventual TOP coat, DO NOT MIX brands..

Do your filling sanding, filling sanding (yes to get a good finish you need to do ALOT of this.)
use Sunlight and a pencil to find the imperfections, Prime, Sand, Prime, sand, Prime,
Paint a base coat of White. Then top coat
Paint.. Paint Paint.
*Light Top coats, dont rush it.. youll get the correct outcome.. Try to keep the same distance from nozzle to rocket all the time.

Good luck
 

dpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,692
Reaction score
386
Rustoleum enamel spray paint can give very good results, if the directions are followed. The recoat times are especially important to follow - less than 1 hour, or > 48 hours. And it can be applied over automotive lacquer-based sandable primers (3M Bondo, Dupli-Color) without problem. I use this combo on a regular basis. I still prefer lacquer top coats, but they're getting increasingly hard to find, and my stock of "Old" (lacquer based) Krylon is diminishing...
 

rharshberger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
11,960
Reaction score
3,787
Location
Pasco, WA
Rustoleum enamel spray paint can give very good results, if the directions are followed. The recoat times are especially important to follow - less than 1 hour, or > 48 hours. And it can be applied over automotive lacquer-based sandable primers (3M Bondo, Dupli-Color) without problem. I use this combo on a regular basis. I still prefer lacquer top coats, but they're getting increasingly hard to find, and my stock of "Old" (lacquer based) Krylon is diminishing...

The Valspar Project Perfect brand that Lowe's sells seems very close to the old school Krylon, so far using 5 different colors I have gotten excellent results by spraying 2 light but full coverage coats about 20 mins apart then a wet coat about 20 mins after the last light coat. My usual primer is either Duplicolor (filler or regular) or Rustoleum Automotive (Filler, Filler Sandable, regular), no issues with either brand no matter what the topcoat has been (rattle can paint topcoats). I do make sure of the recoat times and stick to the manufacturers recommendations.
 

The_Lone_Beagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
716
Reaction score
4
My rules of thumb are:
1. If it looks good from 10 feet away, it's good enough for me.

And lately (stole this from someone's sig line, can't remember who),
2. My rockets have to earn their paint.

Having just flown this weekend from the usual dirty rails at the club, now I have to wipe off all my rockets. Really, it is so much easier to just stop at the sanding sealer stage, fly them, and if they survive a couple of launchings, retire them and *then* paint them.
 

nsmith

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
For future reference, clean plastic with soap and water to remove mold-release agents. On plastic nose cones you can clean up the flashing, then wet sand with 400 grit and 600 grit sand paper.

Prior to painting, wipe down the entire thing with a lint-free rag dampened with alcohol or a paining tack rag and try to avoid handling with bare skin to protect again skin oils (or in my case, snake oil).
 
Top