Russian ekranoplans

[lessgravity]

I've always been fascinated with Russian ekranoplans. What an interesting marriage of technologies that developed during the cold war. I found this Russian documentary on ekranoplans. Watch for the missile launching ekranoplan about 1:30 from the end.

Russian ekranoplans

 

[Chuck Rudy]

The Caspian Sea Monster was basically the first project to verify the use of ground effects which Yeager only touched on in his book. It was a brilliant idea, but for it to be cost effective you needed one large lake and a reason to park it on that lake.

Chuck

 

[skippy-2]

Ekranoplans are classed as Wing in Ground effect (WIG) or Wing in Surface Effect Ship (WISES) vehicles. Lots of info here:

https://www.se-technology.com/wig/index.php

Essentially they are ~40 % more fuel efficient as heavy lifters than comparable aircraft. The basic WIG design has a very low radar signature. They are a stealthy critter...

There is a lot of repetitive video footage on the net, but some nice open water shots of the smaller Orlyonok A-90 on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwKi58lEFZo

Here's one on the ground

https://www.gearthhacks.com/downloads/map.php?file=20455

So they are still around...

 

[Stymye]

I remember seeing a discovery channel special on this ,, very cool

 

[cls]

funny... this afternoon I was cleaning out the garage and found my Revell plastic model kit (04609) Ekranoplan A-90... right as a Russian friend showed up - he's a physicist and expert in hydrofoils and ekranoplans! I'll send him the video link. very cool! you know, this was a really secret project way back when... when there was a wall in Berlin...

 

[Chuck Rudy]

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/10/06/024229.html

I recalled a Tupolev craft at last year's Barrett-Jackson auction. Here's the listing: 1978 TUPOLEV NOO7 GULLWING BOAT $187,000.00

Interesting for a craft the Russians were to have stopped development on.

Chuck

 

[eugenefl]

Ok. so this is essentially a hovering boat with wings, correct? I really don't see what advantage this has over...well...A BOAT! Can this vehicle actually take flight outside of a body of water or does it rely on the surface of the water to achieve flight? I'm intrigued, and it sure looks cool enough, but I just don't see the point. (I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to this particular air/boat craft. I've never heard of it or seen it before.)

 

[Stymye]

you have to realise just how >huge< this thing is to realise how efficient the concept was/is.

 

[user 13]

It is interesting, If I remember correctly they can gain altitude at least for a short time. I wounder how they would do in 10 ft seas? I don't see a real world use for them.

 

[Chuck Rudy]

Their competition today would be the hovercraft, however I doubt the hovercraft could match the speeds of the ekranoplans. They used ground effects to push themselves into the boundary of air which existed at speed. It was an amazing high speed troop carrier and shows some of the Russian ability to push the envelope.

Some of what is coming out now about the Russian 'blackops' building programs are as inventive as Nazi Germany was in it's waning days of WW II. When the scientists and engineers were given license to express themselves they rarely failed to make something "not permitted to be talked about".

The Russian ejection seat is still considered the best built by any country. Given the resources and capital the Russians would have been extraordinarly cutting edge.

Chuck

 

[Fred]

Is there a fact sheet somewhere on them that is good. i heard of them way back when as well. The videos are very cool by the way
Cheers
fred

 

[Chuck Rudy]

Fred

While this is only slighty thread altering, try here as as starting point. I spent a whole day on that website some time ago.

https://www.russianspaceweb.com/buran.html

Perhaps there is a jumping off point somewhere to find the monster.

This may do ya.

https://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/05/ekranoplans-showcase.html

Chuck

 

[Fred]

It looks like it can more then a plane great distances but not quite as fast. I dont understand why it would be stealthy with all the metal and right andles though. It looks like it could fill a niche for high speed cargo in greater bulk then a plane could handle. Great stuff thanks for the links
Cheers
fred

 

[Chuck Rudy]

It looks like it can more then a plane great distances but not quite as fast. I dont understand why it would be stealthy with all the metal and right andles though. It looks like it could fill a niche for high speed cargo in greater bulk then a plane could handle. Great stuff thanks for the links
Cheers
fred

Fred

I would guess the stealthiness could be considered from the fact it doesn't have to have any piece rise over 150ft, staying below radar which big cargo planes cannot, and it can be an offensive weapon as well as truck. If you were 200 miles off the coast of Iceland on a naval vessel and saw this thing coming at you at it's top speed it could be an enlightening experience. It seems to be more of a solution in search of a problem.

But it is definitely cool.

Thanks to WHill for starting the thread, finally something worth talking about.

Chuck

 

[Fred]

Fred

I would guess the stealthiness could be considered from the fact it doesn't have to have any piece rise over 150ft, staying below radar which big cargo planes cannot, and it can be an offensive weapon as well as truck. If you were 200 miles off the coast of Iceland on a naval vessel and saw this thing coming at you at it's top speed it could be an enlightening experience. It seems to be more of a solution in search of a problem.

But it is definitely cool.

Thanks to WHill for starting the thread, finally something worth talking about.

Chuck

Very true on all counts. Would it take the pounding of the north Atrlantic? Great thread
Cheers
fred

 

[rstaff3]

I only know what I've read in the links provided, but that applications section of the WIG site says the application is mainly to lakes and sheltered sea areas. The North Sea isn't a likely application (?)

Good thread!

 

[sylvie369]

Eight jet engines right next to the cockpit?
I'll bet the pilots communicated by hand signals - even with their wives and kids at home at night.

 

[Chuck Rudy]

Very true on all counts. Would it take the pounding of the north Atrlantic? Great thread
Cheers
fred

That's the 544 ton question. ;-)

Chuck

 

[lessgravity]

Did you know that even Kawasaki built an ekranoplan? Maybe it was researched prior to Jet Skis!
Click on this link and go to the bottom of the page (pictures are grainy B&W). There are images of ekranoplan designs from manufacturers all over the world. Most are small craft in comparison to the Russian ones.

The MD-160 (with the eight engines on the front) operated in the Black Sea.

"The sole vessel of her class, MD-160 entered service with the Black Sea Fleet 1987. Eight JSC Motorostroitel NK-37 turbojets were mounted on forward-located canards, each delivering 127.4 kN (28,600 lbf) of thrust. MD-160 had a flying boat-like hull with a large deflecting plate at the bottom of the hull to provide a "step" for takeoff."
The aircraft was equipped for anti-submarine warfare.

There were even plans to launch a Spaceplane from a fast moving Ekranoplan.

 

[init 6]

Very true on all counts. Would it take the pounding of the north Atrlantic? Great thread
Cheers
fred

There's more to life than the Atlantic. Staying in the Caspian would have given the USSR access to Iran and any NATO ingressions along the Georgian/Azerbaijan area.

Move along to the Black sea and Turkey and Greece are in line for a bit of swift heavy troop movement.

 

[Fred]

There's more to life than the Atlantic. Staying in the Caspian would have given the USSR access to Iran and any NATO ingressions along the Georgian/Azerbaijan area.

Move along to the Black sea and Turkey and Greece are in line for a bit of swift heavy troop movement.

Your points are well taken but the North Atlantic would have been IMO at the centre of any struggle excepting nuclear spasm.
Cheers
Fred

 

[init 6]

Your points are well taken but the North Atlantic would have been IMO at the centre of any struggle excepting nuclear spasm.
Cheers
Fred

From a European view, if they reach the Atlantic, then the war is over.

Seriously though, theres a lot of use to be had from an Ekranoplan outwith an East/West battle. Perhaps there's a model to be had here

 

[Fred]

From a European view, if they reach the Atlantic, then the war is over.

Seriously though, theres a lot of use to be had from an Ekranoplan outwith an East/West battle. Perhaps there's a model to be had here

I never really thought of it that way I think like Blue Gemini and other cold war may have beens this would make an excellant model.
Cheers
fred

 

[North Star]

Your points are well taken but the North Atlantic would have been IMO at the centre of any struggle excepting nuclear spasm.
Cheers
Fred

The Lun circa 1987 was intended as a hunter killer of US submarines in the North Atlantic and Polar regions - how it would have managed in WNA conditions (Plimsoll line mark - Winter North Atlantic - probably the worst sea conditions in the world) is anyones guess.

A bit of background; The US spy sat Corona first revealed the KM in 1960 but it wasn't really assessed until 1967 by a photographic interpreter called Hooker in Washington. His colleagues thought it was an incomplete aircraft of unbelievable size and dubbed it the 'Caspian sea Monster' but Hooker had heard of WIG craft and by 1972 was able to present a report to the Pentagon about Ekranoplans. He thought the Russians would 'go large' because ground effect becomes seriously efficient when scaled up.

Possibly due to money problems the Orlyonok was actually the next development and was considerably smaller. The govt canceled an order for 150 that would have been used in the great inland seas of the USSR (Caspian Aral and Lake Baikal) for general logistics use - no roads etc. Kruschev and then Brezhnev feared direct conflict with the US and planning lent towards the middle East and S E Asia where the Ekranoplan would have its uses.

The cold war eased a bit in the Carter/Brezhnev era but when Ronald Reagan came to power and brought up the star wars idea the Soviets re thought the Ekranoplan. The next phase, put forward by the Alexiev bureau ( Rostislav Alexiev was the father of the Ekranoplan), would have been to use the craft to take medium ballistic missiles across the ice and tundra of the Northern USSR (and maybe into the polar regions) these areas are flat enough for the craft and the Ekranoplan could have roamed at high speed within striking distance of the US, undetectable by radars deployed by NATO. The missile carrier became the Lun but by it's introduction in 1987 things had moved on and the USSR ran out of time.

A version of the Lun was under development as late as 1991 and is still intact in it's factory. The Spasatel (search and rescue) ran out of money so was never completed.

That guy Hooker is still in the game, he heads a private company (something like 'Air Sea innovation' ) and has plans for a 1500 ton craft to use as a passenger carrier across the Pacific.

All the above is from memory as I did a lot of research into Ekranoplans in the early 90's after visiting Russia and seeing the Bartini example of a passenger craft at the Monino museum near Moscow, I also found a book whilst at the Moscow air show at Zhukovski it was in Russian (obviously!!) but a friend who studied Russian did a sort of translation for me (it lacked much of the technical jargon). There is a book which might still be available, published by Ian Allan in the UK which has numerous pictures of these Ekranoplans and also the designs by Bartini and later by the Beriev design bureau (who make the jet seaplanes). All my books and papers are in storage at the moment due to house selling but I must dig them out at some time. This is a fascinating subject. I hope I haven't bored you by now.

 

[cjl]

Ok. so this is essentially a hovering boat with wings, correct? I really don't see what advantage this has over...well...A BOAT! Can this vehicle actually take flight outside of a body of water or does it rely on the surface of the water to achieve flight? I'm intrigued, and it sure looks cool enough, but I just don't see the point. (I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to this particular air/boat craft. I've never heard of it or seen it before.)

Speed and efficiency

It relies on ground effects to lift massive loads relatively efficiently, and carry them at high speeds. It is closer to an airplane than a boat, but due to the ground effects, it vastly reduces the induced drag caused by wingtip vortices. So, it can carry cargo and such faster than a boat and significantly more efficiently than an airplane. In addition, as a weapon, it can go much faster than any boat (several hundred miles per hour), and stays low enough to the sea that it is harder to detect on radar.

 

[Chuck Rudy]

This is a fascinating subject. I hope I haven't bored you by now.

Not at all, it was/is an impressive bit of technology and it's story is still incomplete. Imagine what it could have done if allowed to run wild in the Mediteranean.

Chuck

 

[Fred]

The Lun circa 1987 was intended as a hunter killer of US submarines in the North Atlantic and Polar regions - how it would have managed in WNA conditions (Plimsoll line mark - Winter North Atlantic - probably the worst sea conditions in the world) is anyones guess.

A bit of background; The US spy sat Corona first revealed the KM in 1960 but it wasn't really assessed until 1967 by a photographic interpreter called Hooker in Washington. His colleagues thought it was an incomplete aircraft of unbelievable size and dubbed it the 'Caspian sea Monster' but Hooker had heard of WIG craft and by 1972 was able to present a report to the Pentagon about Ekranoplans. He thought the Russians would 'go large' because ground effect becomes seriously efficient when scaled up.

Possibly due to money problems the Orlyonok was actually the next development and was considerably smaller. The govt canceled an order for 150 that would have been used in the great inland seas of the USSR (Caspian Aral and Lake Baikal) for general logistics use - no roads etc. Kruschev and then Brezhnev feared direct conflict with the US and planning lent towards the middle East and S E Asia where the Ekranoplan would have its uses.

The cold war eased a bit in the Carter/Brezhnev era but when Ronald Reagan came to power and brought up the star wars idea the Soviets re thought the Ekranoplan. The next phase, put forward by the Alexiev bureau ( Rostislav Alexiev was the father of the Ekranoplan), would have been to use the craft to take medium ballistic missiles across the ice and tundra of the Northern USSR (and maybe into the polar regions) these areas are flat enough for the craft and the Ekranoplan could have roamed at high speed within striking distance of the US, undetectable by radars deployed by NATO. The missile carrier became the Lun but by it's introduction in 1987 things had moved on and the USSR ran out of time.

A version of the Lun was under development as late as 1991 and is still intact in it's factory. The Spasatel (search and rescue) ran out of money so was never completed.

That guy Hooker is still in the game, he heads a private company (something like 'Air Sea innovation' ) and has plans for a 1500 ton craft to use as a passenger carrier across the Pacific.

All the above is from memory as I did a lot of research into Ekranoplans in the early 90's after visiting Russia and seeing the Bartini example of a passenger craft at the Monino museum near Moscow, I also found a book whilst at the Moscow air show at Zhukovski it was in Russian (obviously!!) but a friend who studied Russian did a sort of translation for me (it lacked much of the technical jargon). There is a book which might still be available, published by Ian Allan in the UK which has numerous pictures of these Ekranoplans and also the designs by Bartini and later by the Beriev design bureau (who make the jet seaplanes). All my books and papers are in storage at the moment due to house selling but I must dig them out at some time. This is a fascinating subject. I hope I haven't bored you by now.

I am not bored and thats some memory. Hunting subs in such a noisy platform would be tough I think. Not to mention a well placed torp could effect things or even a harpoon maybe given it's size. Targetting based on sound would not be too hard as I imagine this must be a loud beast. It would also have to deal with Aurora/orion aircraft and whatever carrier elements were out there. I think the north Atlantic in winter has to be seen to be beleived. In some rea it might make an excellant SAR platform .
It could have raised cain in the med as Chuck says. Thanks for the info.
Cheers
Fred

 

[Fred]

Speed and efficiency

It relies on ground effects to lift massive loads relatively efficiently, and carry them at high speeds. It is closer to an airplane than a boat, but due to the ground effects, it vastly reduces the induced drag caused by wingtip vortices. So, it can carry cargo and such faster than a boat and significantly more efficiently than an airplane. In addition, as a weapon, it can go much faster than any boat (several hundred miles per hour), and stays low enough to the sea that it is harder to detect on radar.

Thermal and accoustic would have been high though CJ I imagine
Cheers
fred

 

[user 13]

As for stealth, any good 1970's lookdown doplar radar would have no problem making short work of it. Ground effect works only at heights up to 2 times the wingspan, that would limit the seas it could handle.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

Some renewed interest in this technology although I cannot find any real images of the actual proposed planes (just brief descriptions and artist renditions).

https://news.usni.org/2023/02/01/da...-long-range-liberty-lifter-flying-boat-design