Running out of gateways to the hobby

[DavieRockets]

Our club manned an exhibit at a local model train show this past weekend. Lots of fathers reminiscing about building rockets and showing their kids what they did when they were younger.

Jim, how many truly interested hits did you get? I've manned a few of these displays over the last few years but the club has not grown from these at all. Seems the kids and teenagers have little more than a passing interest. The tablett and iphone are king. Very sad indeed. The rocketry community is aging with little new blood coming in. I hope we can turn this around. See you at this weekend's launch in St. Albans.

 

[kcobbva]

This is beginning to worry me; we may be seeing the slow death of our hobby because of a lack of opportunities to showcase it. Other comments welcome here:

Reasons to worry (from my point of view)
1. slow disappearance of local hobby shops
2. gradual disappearance of rocketry stuff from remaining LHS
3. lack of print publications aimed at youth (Comic books, Boys' Life, etc) in which rocketry vendors can advertise
4. Aging of rocketry club membership (sorry guys it's hard to miss)
5. Just try finding model rocketry books/magazines in your local library (not impossible due to interlibrary loan programs, but they are still relatively scarce)
6. General cultural bias against flammable materials and/or anything which suggests "weapon" whether it is or not

Reasons for hope:
1. We still have scout/youth/church-group rocket events supported by local clubs
2. SpaceC/Blue Origin/other private space ventures still attract publicity
3. some pop-culture support from TV shows/commercials
4. STEM events/activities sponsored by schools
5. cultural interest in Mars missions

New opportunities?
1. trying to "showroom" rocketry products without benefit of brick-and-mortar retail
2. Piggybacking onto other hobby audiences? R/C aircraft seems obvious
3. partner with digital publications? Can we get rocket ads in front of mobile gamers, for example?

I surely cannot disagree. I saw the same aging at the last club event (my first club launch...as well as seeing the members OF the club from meetings). I also live in an area, where they've said NO MODEL ROCKETRY in the parks etc because of stupid politics. Nobody ever accused Fairfax county of having smart leadership. Sorry..won't go down that path. Due to that, I see only ready to fly stuff at Micheals, and most good hobby shops have disappeared.

That being said, I saw a wealth of students flying on Sunday last weekend - involved with TARC. I heard the day before was really hectic it was so busy. I can only imagine that programs like this will help keep our hobby alive. I'm doing my part with my kids, but that it's "illegal" to shoot in the wide open school yard behind us on a weekend is pathetic. Making them drive out an hour to a launch site doesn't make it easy to hook them, like I was as a kid.

 

[DizWolf]

We've seeing the most growth in "old guys who liked rockets as kids and now that the economy is recovering and gas is cheap we're blowing thousands of dollars building the rockets we wanted to as kids but with huger motors" segment of our club.

Also the "holy crap I just had a pile of kids and need to get the F out of the house and into the workshop for a few hours" and "yes hunny I'm taking the boy to launch rockets again...I KNOW already? but he's been good this month so I want to support that and take him to these BORING launches....by the way have you seen giant box with the 1.4 explosive sticker? huh, no nothing's in it...oh it's NOT the size of a piano case!" segment has been growing steadily here.


Honestly the estes PSII line has been a good bump getting people looking for bigger fields.

And come on... its the internet..... everyone can find rockets now..... I'm not worried. We're growing every year, and not just flash in the pan, gonna do this for a year people.

 

[mrichhcirm]

Thanks for the lively discussion so far! Responses run the range of "Dying? what are you talking about?" to "Geez you're old...things are different from when you were a kid, they got this thing called the Internet now" to "yeah, it's really hard to get the kids' attention these days".

Please keep the comments coming! I have both a personal (BAR) and professional (working in marketing services industry) interest in this issue...problem is, the hobby and its supporting industries are too small to support the kind of marketing campaigns I'm used to seeing (I just don't have any rocketry clients as they just don't have the deep pockets to hire the company I work for). So think of this as a kind of "crowdsourced" approach to solving the problem.

 

[Bat-mite]

You guys are making me proud that no one in my household owns a smart phone, and my kids love to play outside!

 

[mrichhcirm]

You guys are making me proud that no one in my household owns a smart phone, and my kids love to play outside!

Lucky guy...don't get me started about smart phones, we have five in the household. :eyeroll:

 

[RocketFeller]

I have been running an after-school rocket club for 17 years at my school. We average around 25-30 students in the club out of maybe 100 eligible (4th grade and up, younger allowed with an adult mentor). We had our first meeting of the year last night, to order rockets. We start building after Spring Break and fly when the weather allows it, usually starting in early May.



A few rocket club kids and one of our HPR projects at Fillible's Folly 2008.

 

[DRAGON64]

The reality check is the cost to maintain this hobby... Many new fliers are slapped in the face when simple A; B; C; D & E class black powder motor prices are on their own "sky-rocket." For the veteran fliers, AP motor prices are getting out of reach, and for some, the cost to fun ratio begins to diminish... Especially when you consider that the lower cost "G-class" reload is now well north of $10 for 1.6 seconds (average) of "whoosh POP" People at both ends of the cost spectrum get all "funned out" when they just cannot justify the cost of rising propellant choices.

I knew of a well seasoned flier who weighed the odds, and sold everything to get into RC soaring... his launch costs are zilch, and his flights last far longer than 1.6 seconds... he never missed a chance to rub it in... Granted, the RC community and Rocket community comparisons are that of apples to oranges, except for where costs are concerned.

 

[Bat-mite]

I think it's a little unfair to equate the entire cost of the rocket and motor with the burn time. You have hours of building time, the pre-launch excitement, loading up your AV bay, packing your chutes, launching, recovering, and hanging out with other rocketeers.

 

[mrichhcirm]

I knew of a well seasoned flier who weighed the odds, and sold everything to get into RC soaring... his launch costs are zilch, and his flights last far longer than 1.6 seconds... he never missed a chance to rub it in... Granted, the RC community and Rocket community comparisons are that of apples to oranges, except for where costs are concerned.

Of course that's not entirely without costs...in my county r/c aircraft fliers need to pay for an annual license. And of course there are the risks of losing labor-intensive aircraft and expensive gear. Incremental launch costs are high for rocketry, but the barrier to entry is relatively low (if you start with the LPR powderburners of course ) Besides, I don't consider it a loss if a rocketeer crosses over to other aerial hobbies...i'm sure there is flow in both directions

 

[mrichhcirm]

I think it's a little unfair to equate the entire cost of the rocket and motor with the burn time. You have hours of building time, the pre-launch excitement, loading up your AV bay, packing your chutes, launching, recovering, and hanging out with other rocketeers.

Don't forget the fun of hiking through marshes, climbing trees, picking burrs out of your clothes, and other fun rescue/recovery activities

 

[Bat-mite]

Don't forget the fun of hiking through marshes, climbing trees, picking burrs out of your clothes, and other fun rescue/recovery activities

True! I always hate it at the time, but when I look back on it, I realize it was so much better than being at work. :wink:

 

[Oberon]

I knew of a well seasoned flier who weighed the odds, and sold everything to get into RC soaring... his launch costs are zilch, and his flights last far longer than 1.6 seconds... he never missed a chance to rub it in... Granted, the RC community and Rocket community comparisons are that of apples to oranges, except for where costs are concerned.

Challenge him to a drag race. First to Mach 1 wins.

 

[mrichhcirm]

True! I always hate it at the time, but when I look back on it, I realize it was so much better than being at work. :wink:

Maybe we need to present the hobby as an interesting spin on hiking...not unlike golf

 

[DRAGON64]

I think it's a little unfair to equate the entire cost of the rocket and motor with the burn time. You have hours of building time, the pre-launch excitement, loading up your AV bay, packing your chutes, launching, recovering, and hanging out with other rocketeers.

Challenge him to a drag race. First to Mach 1 wins.

He would totally take me on pinpoint landings though, as well as extended flight times... there again, Mach equals $$$$$$$$$$$$ per milli-second.

 

[Exactimator]

We've seeing the most growth in "old guys who liked rockets as kids and now that the economy is recovering and gas is cheap we're blowing thousands of dollars building the rockets we wanted to as kids but with huger motors" segment of our club.

I was talking with mikec about this. There's a loooong wait for the payoff on the scouts. A scout might be interested and fly some LPR for a few years, keeping that end of the hobby going. Then like a lot of us, they get out of the hobby because of all the other stuff. Girls, cars, school... Maybe 20 years later they come back as an HPR BAR. Some of the guys laying the groundwork today may not even be around when they come back. But so be it.

 

[Exactimator]

Challenge him to a drag race. First to Mach 1 wins.

Ooooh. Good one. You could also do first one to 10,000 feet.

 

[DizWolf]

I think it's a small hobby, and always will be. And that's ok. Growth is not always good.

I think the costs are reasonable. $10 reloads in the right rocket will do a lot more than whoosh pop. You can setup a 38/29 FG DD with GPS and have a blast for 10-15 a pop

 

[kyled921]

Students for the Exploration and Development of Space (SEDS) has a fairly active chapter at my Alma mater UCF (graduated 2015). Unfortunately, the younger crowd (<25, myself included) of rocketeers will always be small comparatively due to costs associated with the hobby. After getting my L1 through my employer, I struggled to justify motors larger than 29mm since reloads bordered ~$20 per, and that's a lot of meals for a Senior in college/fresh grad. Compound that with studies, limited transportation ,etc. it was hard for me to get "into" the hobby through launches. Building is what I spent most of my time doing and now I have more rockets than I have launches (soon to be fixed).

I think many of the younger guys in Scouts/school get that initial spark as I did, but pursue the interest in whatever way they can within financial and educational limitations. With new tech becoming more prevalent in daily life, I think we as hobbyists should focus on the software-->design-->build aspect of rocketry for the younger groups. OpenRocket is great for technical data, but isn't much fun for young kids to just get creative. I'd suggest a more drag-and-drop type rocket software where kids can "build" a rocket to look cool (pant schemes, fin shapes, etc.) and then the parent/teacher/NAR instructor can help them build it. Or a company could do quick custom work based on the images and ship the kit to the kids to assemble. I know Estes has some of the DIY kits with lots of supplies, but those can be daunting to work with if you just want to have fun designing.

As I get further into this hobby I am meeting all sorts of people that are really into the different aspects of rocketry; with some liking motor development/testing and the chemistry, others liking the programming/electronics, and many just enjoying the build. I think you're going to see more SEDS students and college age rocketeers start to pop up as they find the thing that interests them within the hobby, and especially as the commercial "Space Race 2.0" heats up.

TL;DR: It's expensive for younger guys to move up quickly. But college teams and engineering programs are helping. Get involved with SEDS chapters or start a new one if your college/university doesn't have one! Also, please send money for rocket motors! Thanks mom!

 

[Pat_B]

I think there needs to be more educational emphasis on rocketry so that the new user's experience consists more than just appreciating the launch experience. Remember in the early days when everyone was just doing low power? Vern's newsletters had all sorts of interesting ideas of experiments you could do with rocketry, and lots of time was spent off the field preparing for those things. Nowadays, the emphasis on HP and spending lots of money for the wow factor doesn't help the new person. There's nothing wrong with someone enjoying the visceral experience of the launch itself, but that's not the best way for a new person to stay engaged in the hobby. They end up equating the fun of this hobby simply with how many, and what size motors they're burning.

That's what's nice about TARC. The kids spend months planning, building, launching and they get a really deep understand of rocketry. Our club also does a lot of outreach. But the kids like the wow factor of doing a launch, but if it's not followed up with more educational stuff, then they think that's all there is to the hobby. I've tried really hard to convince the various Scout groups we work with to have more sessions on rocketry other than just a build session, but they simply don't have the time. Consequently, after our launch session, most kids never launch their rockets again.

 

[Exactimator]

Some ideas on new approaches to getting some exposure with a younger crowd:

Internet stars are actually a thing now. People with popular Youtube channels, Twitter, Vine and Instagram accounts have enough followers to make money and get autograph requests. Vines would be perfect for launch videos because flights are short anyway.

Find someone that would take photos and video and put them on these social media outlets. Someone in your club probably has a kid or nephew/niece or a kid&#8217;s buddy who has a large internet presence with their local friends. Invite them to a launch and tell them to bring their camera gear, quadcopter, etc. You don&#8217;t need something to go international or even national. You just need something to go out around your local area.

Help them set up for the best shots and then put on a good show. Sparky motors with a lot of roar, (safe) drag races, large or scale projects. Maybe have someone do a scale build of a SpaceX Falcon.

Send something Mach. Show them the Jolly3 results on your phone of the rocket going zero to 800 MPH in 2 seconds.

Show them the rocket&#8217;s GPS working with your smartphone to locate your rocket that just went 10,000 feet.

Strap a keychain cam or Mobius to as many rockets as you can and give them the sim card at the end of the day.

Maybe even give them a task they can try. For instance, tell them you wish someone would create an Arduino tracking tripod so the camera follows the rockets.

Then let them work up a video and put it online. If it&#8217;s a good enough show, it will spread online. Sort of a local viral video.

If it goes out to enough people, it&#8217;ll end up in front of a few that will be interested enough to try it. They&#8217;ll find you. And usually, once people try it they&#8217;re hooked. Even if it just inspires other budding photographers and videographers to come out and take more photos and videos because it looks spectacular, that&#8217;s more exposure.

Just try not to be too stodgy. Or old and cranky. Or tell them rocketry is dying. Or whine about the things people whine about on TRF. Try to look like you&#8217;re having fun. Someone will want to come have fun with you.

 

[DizWolf]

I was talking with mikec about this. There's a loooong wait for the payoff on the scouts. A scout might be interested and fly some LPR for a few years, keeping that end of the hobby going. Then like a lot of us, they get out of the hobby because of all the other stuff. Girls, cars, school... Maybe 20 years later they come back as an HPR BAR. Some of the guys laying the groundwork today may not even be around when they come back. But so be it.

Actually the hook on scouts is probably grabbing the fathers

Maybe it's just me, or a local thing, but I don't get the doom and gloom.... I think rocketry is actually expanding.....

OK, so thats a major launch....but we still have people flying every month, and building rockets, and making motors, and having tons of fun. Sure, small market...but not dying I don't think.

 

[Flyfalcons]

I knew of a well seasoned flier who weighed the odds, and sold everything to get into RC soaring... his launch costs are zilch, and his flights last far longer than 1.6 seconds... he never missed a chance to rub it in... Granted, the RC community and Rocket community comparisons are that of apples to oranges, except for where costs are concerned.

True, I can fly my big gassers at a fly-in all weekend long for maybe ten bucks' worth of gas. The tradeoff is in the upfront cost. 6 grand for a 40% aerobat can buy a lot of rocket kits and motors. Both aerial hobbies are fun though and I enjoy participating in both.

 

[manixFan]

There was an outdoor event last year called the Coleman Family AdventureFest. One of the other big sponsors was BSA (Scouting). A bunch of us volunteered at Estes' booth for a make-it-take-it build session. The response was phenomenal - so much so that Mike from Estes had to do an extra supply run on Saturday. Over 800 rockets built in 3 days. Lots of parents (dads mostly) mentioned how much they had enjoyed flying rockets as a kid.

The biggest issue today is finding a place to fly. The small suburb I live in used to have lots of open fields but no longer - all the land is being developed. And many parks don't allow rockets. The local NAR club (DARS) does a good job with outreach as well and has a monthly model launch but it's far north of the metroplex and a long way for many folks to drive.

And to some of the above posts, I got into HPR via a model launch for scouts. That little launch has cost me a lot of money!

Gone are the days of a few minutes drive to the edge of town for a launch. I see that as the biggest issue with model rocketry. HPR fields are even harder to come by. More places to fly is what will really make a big difference.


Tony

 

[GlenP]

Every year our school has a gift-basket silent auction fundraiser. I usually donate a rocket-themed gift basket with an Estes starter launch set like the Tandem X, and the Estes Designer Special parts assortment, the Apogee book on Model Rocket Design (signed by author Tim Van Milligan, thank you, sir!), and a recent copy of the NAR Sport Rocketry magazine, the AMT Man in Space set of plastic models and the Lindberg Shuttle (all at 1:200 scale), the NASA Mission Patch Handbook (cool pictures of almost all the manned space mission patches with descriptions of each mission) a couple of DVDs like October Sky and Apollo 13, some astronaut ice cream, and a set of tickets to the museum of flight. I hope that the family who bids on and wins this enjoys getting into hobby and may inspire some interest in their kids.

I need to get one of those AMT Man in Space kits for myself one of these days.

 

[Turd]

Cardboard tubes, 3 balsa fins, some wood glue, and a molded plastic nose cone are not going to attract young people.

The new tech like altimeters, HD cameras, 3D printers, laser cutters, and social media exposure is what will grow the hobby now.

 

[Barkley]

Cardboard tubes, 3 balsa fins, some wood glue, and a molded plastic nose cone are not going to attract young people.

The new tech like altimeters, HD cameras, 3D printers, laser cutters, and social media exposure is what will grow the hobby now.

I think you need both. Social media and HD video might help someone decide to come to a launch, but a cardboard tube with a big roaring skidmark motor will get them to come back.

 

[SteveA63]

Our minimum age is eight. I can retain them until at least 12 when we get them that young. Once they enter middle school, then it's pretty much over. We may hook one and keep them to high school, if we can show them what can be done with an Arduino and data collection. In this case, a rare species indeed.

 

[gna]

Along the same lines, I don’t refer noobs to TRF if they have a question. They’re more likely to get dogpiled on than get help here, and I don’t want them thinking the hobby is full of grumpy old folks. That’ll drive them away faster than anything.

This forum is sunshine and lollipops compared to some other hobby forums. Check out a model railroading forum sometime--bunch of grumpy old men complaining about absolutely everything.

 

[DizWolf]

This forum is sunshine and lollipops compared to some other hobby forums. Check out a model railroading forum sometime--bunch of grumpy old men complaining about absolutely everything.

LOL. agreed. Legit new people can find help here quite easily. It's those that don't listen to good advice, tell experienced people they're wrong, or insist on doing things in an unsafe manner that get dog-piled.

This place is what's referred to as "care-bear" in every other forum I've been on. It's very nice and friendly compared to many other places.